A mature user comments on Mad Men's 14-Year old actress, Kiernan Shipka: "I'm not deleting anything. I didn't say I'd fuck a 14 year old. I just said she's getting hot. Biologically men are supposed to find girls attractive at 14 or older because that's when they are fertile." (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
102 ups - 0 downs = 102 votes
157 comments submitted at 07:04:56 on Jul 29, 2014 by Oberyn_Martells_Eyes
This is one of those things that makes my eyes roll into the back of my head in response to all sides.
Are there 16 year olds who look like they're 25 and are extremely attractive? Yes. Absolutely. Anyone who says there aren't is delusional and full of shit.
Should you be slobbering over those minors, going on about how "hot" they are? No. It's uncouth at best and fucking creepy at worst.
Is it generally embarrassing every time there is a slap fight between the two sides? You betcha.
Honestly, this is one of the more tame examples i have seen here. He says she is hot, but doesn't want to have sex with her.
The rest of his points are pretty trash, but at least its not the usual drama.
there was one dude who used to post here who said that the only thing stoppin him from fucking 14 year olds was consent laws
biotroofs everywhere
i think he eventually got banned
Was that svareg (or however his name was spelled)?
> Should you be slobbering over ~~those minors~~ anyone, going on about how "hot" they are? No. It's uncouth at best and fucking creepy at worst.
FTFY
Yea, you tell him!
good eye, that guy's totally trying to get somebody to fuck him through making that comment
A white knight accusation? Really? Suits me right for making a jokey little correction that wasn't even disagreeing or at the guy's expense.
Arise and get thee on thy steed.
Oh, we're sharing one, so first you gotta get off your high horse.
Do you even know what 'high horse' means?
Will first you gotta get some weed for the horse...
Just to be clear: do you actually think it's unacceptable to talk about how hot anybody is? If yes, why so?
One m'lady in the chamber, ten in the clip
Eh, there's a time and place where it's perfectly acceptable. Let's not go too far and take drool away from people that like it.
I mean yeah. You can't help if you find someone attractive, but there's no need to talk about a 14 year old that way. It reminds me of the sleazy "All Grown Up" headlines form the Daily Mail or that photo book Germain Greer released about how "sexy" 14 year old boys are.
Reminds me of the Daily Mail's take on Brass Eye's infamous and hilarious Paedogeddon! special.
The best episode of Brass Eye. The Paedophile dressed as a school is one of the funnies things I've ever seen. Simon Peg appears in it too.
We must catch this man, he really is a shit.
I dunno, for me cake takes the cake.
Small correction. That was in The Daily Star, which is actually slightly worse than the Daily Mail.
> which is actually slightly worse than the Daily Mail.
Surely you jest! Such an aberration could not exist.
I'd agree. The Daily Mail actually runs some good political analysis from time to time, the Daily Star is just bin liner and thinly veiled nationalism.
I disagree that the Star is worse, but only on the basis that more people take the Mail seriously.
Does anyone notice the irony of talking about a woman's breasts 'swelling' on one page and then attacking a show for being sick on the next page?
>a woman's breasts
A 15 year old girls, no less.
> A 15 year old girls, no less.
Fuck me. I did not notice. Jesus, the Daily Mail is a twisted thing.
It's a little less creepy in the UK cause AFAIK the age of consent is 16.
nope, it's still pretty darn creepy here.
That's why I said a little. No one is denying the creepiness.
It's 16 in the US too, mostly.
Yes, the hypocrisy is the point. It shows just how on-the-nose Brass Eye was - the episode was all about how manipulative the press's attitudes to paedophilia were(are) and here you have the tabloid sleazily point out a child star's growing boobs while at the same time promoting themselves as prudish defenders of good taste. I bet Chris Morris has this framed somewhere in his house.
Also, does anyone else notice the irony of talking about how great Brass Eye was for making an episode making fun of paedophile hysteria in a thread like this?
That's The Daily Star (although the Mail had something similar, except they featured Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, who were 13 and 11 at the time).
That is acrtually the only episode of Brass Eye I have seen but its great. I love the bit about how "Paedophiles have more in common genetically with this crab than they do a human being."
This is the photo book being referenced, for anyone else who was curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheBeautifulBoy
What the hell? How is that okay in anybody's eyes? If some guy released a book filled with pictures of 'ravishing' 14 year old girls 'with hairless pussies, wide-apart legs and slim waists', claiming that it was to 'reclaim for all men the right to appreciate the short-lived beauty of young girls, real girls, not simpering 30 year olds with shaved pussies' they would go to fucking prison oh my christ what the fuck
I think most men (if not in fact most people) have had an initial attraction to someone, and then later learned that they're too young; the classical example would be seeing someone from behind, and then seeing their (teenage) face. But how the hell anyone can defend their attraction to 14-year olds? 14-year olds aren't attractive; they can be pretty or handsome or beautiful, but they fucking well aren't attractive.
i swear to god every single niche subreddit on this website is full of creeps
even mad men isnt immune
Couple Questions:
1) How could he not know how young she is if he's a fan of the show? She's been on it since she was 7 years old
2) Big difference between saying a young person is cute or pretty or handsome and going on and on about how "holy shit" hot she is or "holy fuck".
I miss the days when people would keep this shit to themselves. Nobody would dare comment on the relative fuckability of a 14 year old at a neighborhood bbq, because it's fucking gross. Thanks, internet. I guess.
Apples and oranges. The opinion that she is hot isn't being broadcasted to people from your block, it's being broadcasted to a group of people who decided to look at the comments section of an otherwise unremarkable photo of a good-looking actor and her daughter. Different venue, different standards.
Its creepy that the standard on red dit is pro ephilia and let's apologize for pedos.
What?
this bullshit again, and the ~~pedos~~ ephebophiles upvote it because penis feels before reals
Women are most fertile in their 20s
"Banging" the youngest fertile girls used to result in dead mothers and babies
And fistulas, don't forget the fistulas. Being extra young when giving birth is a risk factor (hips not fully grown out etc..)
Redditors will lose their collective shit if they find out you didn't wait for your dog to turn 2 before breeding her. (It was on SRD, I forget the link though).
But 14 year olds? That's prime fuckin age because biology.
Pretty sure those are two completely different sets of people so, don't really see the hypocrisy.
"Most" wasn't the point to be fair.
i saw a documentary about the data on female fertility and most of the 'information' we used to justify older women having lower fertility is based on some guess work by a doctor over 100 years ago. so for all we know women in their 40s are just as fertile as anyone else. unless someone has done a study recently the actual info on this topic is basically nonexistent, just anecdotal stuff from wet nurses written down by said doctor.
so ye anyone who comes out with 14 year olds are most fertile is just... i dont know.
The problem isn't that older women are less fertile, but that they are much more prone to down syndrome. As are very young mothers.
This is also true for men, actually (except autism and miscarriage instead of down's).
>so for all we know women in their 40s are just as fertile as anyone else.
Or, you know, we can look at actual birth records:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/characteristics-of-Mother-1--england-and-wales/2012/sb-characteristics-of-mother-1--2012.html
I'd love to see that when you exclude the benefits junkies. The average is going to be well into the 30s.
Look everyone, someone reads the Daily Mail.
Ah yes it's the typical 'he reads the Daily mail crap'. For what it's worth I don't.
Edit. HOLY FUCK your post history! You're literally every Reddit stereotype rolled into one! This is fantastic. you're a white, Atheist programmer from Australia who uses linux and talks about misogyny over the internet! This is really great.
Can i ask you a some questions?
Do you feel a crippling need to defend 'm'ladies' on the internet?
On a scale of 1 to Beijing how smug are you?
Have you ever considered professional quotemaking?
Would you describe the Guardian as your bible?
What is your best example of serving 'internet justice'?
>so for all we know women in their 40s are just as fertile as anyone else.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t207/2pn2/what.gif
I'd be slightly more concerned if he said she's getting uglier, that he only used to find her hot.
The concern over what was actually said is as ridiculous as all pedo paranoia on reddit.
> used to result in dead mothers and babies
pretty sure it was the lackluster state of medical science and limited access to doctors.
There are a lot of pedos on reddit, that's just a fact, pedo drama is rampant here
and yes, those things certainly didn't help, but you can bet my collection of mad men dvds that issues resulting from underdeveloped pelvic bones, developmental issues, neonatal birth defects, conditions like preeclampsia etc were and are way more common when teenagers are involved
To date I have really only seen two bona fide instances of pedos on reddit, and I've been here a while. One's Svarog, he comes and goes occasionally, and one is the annual /r/askreddit thread about pedos. But I guess if you want to call everybody who finds even a single person under 18 attractive pedophiles, including reddit's huge teenager contingent, you're gonna find a lot of "pedos".
You should look harder then, I've seen a lot.
> But I guess if you want to call everybody who finds even a single person under 18 attractive pedophiles, including reddit's huge teenager contingent, you're gonna find a lot of "pedos".
I've never said that, you are free to find attractive whoever you want
but keep in mind, people will might have a problem when these people are underage, so maybe keep it to yourself if you can't handle critisism
>There are a lot of pedos on reddit,
lol based on what?
>underdeveloped pelvic bones, developmental issues, neonatal birth defects, conditions like preeclampsia etc were and are way more common when teenagers are involved
could be. Among developed countries the USA has by far the highest teen pregnancy rates. How common are these issues in the US?
AFAICT the USA has also the highest degree of pedo paranoia. Does pedo paranoia cause teen pregnancies, or is it the other way around?
If there aren't a lot of actual pedophiles, there are a lot of people who are quick to jump to their defense. Comparisons to homosexuality and smugly condescending reminders that "it's called ephebophile when they have breasts" are very common.
>there are a lot of people who are quick to jump to their defense.
what exactly are these people defending? i've never seen anyone defend sexual abuse of children. never.
usually it's just someone pointing out that being attracted to children is not the same as acting on it. and any time I've seen a comparison to homosexuality, it was only to point out that pedos don't choose to be pedos. do you disagree?
and what's wrong with pointing out that pedophilia means being attracted to actual children, not girls with tits? that's what pedophilia means.
based on the fact that there used to be a little sub that was called jailbait
and well this
honestly, just google teenage pregnancy and medical risks, there is a lot of information if you are actually interested
you know, I always read on reddit about usa and pedo paranoia, and it makes me laugh because the rest of the world really doesn't like pedos either
> Does pedo paranoia cause teen pregnancies, or is it the other way around?
afaik, teenagers are usually having sex (and babies) with other teenagers so the whole point is moot
>jailbait
you mean 3 years ago? and most normal redditors had nothing to do with it.
For example the first I personally learned of its existence was when it was getting banned.
> pedo paranoia, and it makes me laugh because the rest of the world really doesn't like pedos either
people don't like pedos anywhere. that's not what pedo paranoia is.
someone who says "she used to be so hot, now not anymore because she's starting to look like a woman" -- that's a pedo. The linked comment said pretty much the opposite.
do you think these people just left when jailbait was closed? They stayed and you can see them in the link that I gave you
I admit I don't know what you mean with pedo paranoia, I am not from the usa
no one calls that guy pedo, ffs, I said that's an argument pedos use all the time, teenagers are more fertile, it's natural, biology, blah blah
>do you think these people just left when jailbait was closed?
the 90% of people who found /r/jailbait by searching jailbait on google, and who never set a foot in any normal subreddits?
yes they probably left, because they didn't come here for discussions or advice animals.
lol why? How do you know that? Pedos like image macros too! And discussions (about defending pedophilia usually)
anyway, obviously we don't agree. I've seen gilded comments with a lot of upvotes defending cp, for example
> I've seen gilded comments with a lot of upvotes defending cp, for example
i seriously doubt that. but i'm not doubting that a dedicated person could find quotes that can be made to look as if that were true, when one ignores their context.
and what do you mean by "defending pedophilia"? it's a mental illness, what is there to defend? it's like "defending schizophrenia."
Most teen pregnancies happen between teens. So pedos usually do not get children pregnant. They just rape them. So yea pretty horrible whatever way you look at it.
WTF? obviously children can't get pregnant. they're children. What a weird comment.
There isn't. According to SRD, one case of an out-and-out paedophile every few months = literally all Reddit users are paedophiles. SRD tends to hate the average redditor.
Did you actually read the drama?
I did. My first thought was "Oh wow, OP isn't acting like the usual eblahblahphiles we usually see on SRD. But I bet they're going to give him hell in the comments anyway."
> Biologically men are supposed to find girls attractive at 14 or older because that's when they are fertile. That's the reason humans had families starting around that age for tens of thousands of years and as recent at the 1930s. It's just the way it is. Just because we found out within the last 70 years they aren't emotionally mature enough to make such decisions yet, and we made laws preventing such relationships doesn't change human evolution.
?
sounds like the usual biotruth bullshit to me
Are we playing the cherry picking game?
>I agree, we shouldn't fuck 14 year olds. We should treat them as minors
Wow! Such maturity! Much common sense!
>I didn't say I'd fuck a 14 year old
You can make him sound like a pedophile, I can make him sound like a model citizen. All from the same comment.
Point is, as much as OP is trying not to be a black or white character, we're just looking to have another "Look how much this website sucks! They're all pedophiles!"-circlejerk.
Edit: Thanks for proving my point you guise
I never said the guy is pedo, I said that a lot of pedos keep upvoting the evolution argument, which as I pointed out, is completely bullshit
and honestly, if it If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it may be a pedo (the last one is a joke, don't kill me)
I liked /u/utterpedant's version
that's great
^^^^^didn't ^^^^^see ^^^^^it ^^^^^before, ^^^^^if ^^^^^that's ^^^^^what ^^^^^you ^^^^^are ^^^^^implying
>which as I pointed out, is completely bullshit
You didn't point anything out. You just called it bullshit with no argument to back it up. He never said "most fertile".
> >I didn't say I'd fuck a 14 year old
> You can make him sound like a pedophile, I can make him sound like a model citizen
To be honest, chief, if "wouldn't say that he'd have sex with a child" is your idea of a model citizen, you're setting the bar pretty low.
Really? Someone accused him of some fucked up shit, he denies it, and you go "Well, I won't take his word for it!"
The exaggeration in this thread, I can't even, bring me my ability bird.
I was being tongue-in-cheek.
You can "bang" without getting her pregnant.
Then the fuck does it have to do with fertility?
The subconscious/evolutionary urge to impregnate her is still there, but in this modern day we have contraception, for this exact reason.
Wait, we have contraception so that grown men can fuck 14-year-old girls?
I honestly believe the vast majority of men do not want to have sex with 14 year olds. If you have a subconscious urge whatever that means then you need to seek help.
But if it's conscious we're good, right?
Nope I did not say that. I was wondering how one knows they have a subconscious urge. I have never really looked into it but I was under the assumption if something was subconscious then you are not aware of it.
Fun. At. Parties.
How did I know that I would get a response like that...
Why are people so fucking ignorant? It's like nobody reads anything any more.
"Urgh dis guy seys he want fuck fourten year old! He bad need help! Urgh!" This must literally be your thought process.
I was just going off what the other guy said in his comment; but my point still stands, though it may come as a shock to you, you don't need to impregnate somebody every time you fuck them.
I'm not saying old men should go around fucking fourteen year olds at all, you're the one thinking that; I'm telling you that there's no risk of the mother/child dying because you don't need to get them pregnant.
I understand how birth control works. This is not about birth control. This is about creepy guys on reddit finding 14 year olds attractive.
Isn't 'hot' usually used when there's some kind of physical/sexual attraction? I do think she's pretty, but definitely not 'hot'. Eww.
Edit: Another thing I don't like is his belief is that everyone is just like him, and that people just don't want to say it. That's bullshit. I see the same arguments from racists too - "Everyone things that way about [insert non-white colour here] people. I'm the lone wolf who's brave enough to say it"
assuming that everyone agrees with you is the single dumbest thing in the world. For one thing, other people don't even exist, so they can't have beliefs.
Bingo. Nothing wrong with saying a young person is cute or something. But to go on and on about how HOT they are or fuckable, that's gross
Calling someone hot is definitely different to saying how fuckable. Not everyone uses the word hot the same way, you can find people subjectively hot without wanted to fuck them. Calling someone fuckable always means you would fuck em.
If I hadn't been told her age I would have thought she was around the same age as me, maybe a year or two younger (I'm early 20s). To be fair, she doesn't look that much different in age to her mum. I really don't see what the problem is here.
huh, really? (not attacking you, I swear, she just really looks like a baby to me.)
Yeah I think she looks pretty young too. Maybe not a little kid, because she isn't, but definitely around her age.
>But what if we showed you a girl we said was 18, and you said she was hot, then we told you she was 14. I get you had said you would have no attraction to a 14 year old because children can't give you what you need, which is correct, but that is purely based off of their age. They can still be attractive. I bet there are a lot of 18-20 year olds out there that could pass as 14 year olds, and vice versa. So saying you don't find any 14 year olds attractive is true, but that is after you know the age. You aren't attracted to minors because you shouldn't be, you are an adult. But, the point I am trying to make is you can still find them attractive, or in modern terms and these redditers' terms, "hot".
I mean, I've always just gone with the rule that if they look too young, they're not fap material. It's a pretty good rule, really.
If they look old enough and I'm on a respectable porn site, then I'm going to just go with the assumption that the porn site has verified their age and enter them into the spank bank.
In real life? Well, I can always ask their age long before anything remotely sexual would occur, and it's not often that I run into a 14-year-old girl drinking a margarita and having a smoke in a bar. That's usually something the owners of the bar are quick to weed out.
Now, I'm sure there's probably been situations that have occurred like in Trainspotting or series 3 of Skins, but those are pretty good cautionary tales on the inherent risks of one-night stands and not asking age ahead of time. Outside of house parties and bars in college towns, I don't see much possibility of me running into anyone younger than 18 in a situation in which my mack will be engaged.
And since I'm no longer in a college town, our only bar has been shut down, and I'm far too old to get invited to a pasture party, my mack hasn't been engaged at all except with a cute girl on QuizUp.
And I made sure to get her age before we started flirting.
> respectable porn site
This is tongue-in-cheek, right? Do you wear a condom when you masturbate?
Sticks his pinky out. It's classy.
Well you would definitely get a trojan if it wasn't a respectable porn site.
a monocle
Saves on clean up.
I assume by respectable you mean monochrome photography and tasteful furnishings. Much like a Taschen coffee table book.
Now I want someone to program adblock to replace porn ads with tasteful furnishings.
And now I do, too!
> look at the brain - physically. the human brain vs. a reptile brain.
uh oh, watch out, someone took intro to psych!
I don't get the issue, she definitely is attractive and nobody's going to deny that but it doesn't mean that they are attracted to her. People under the age of consent aren't ugly by default and pointing out attractiveness isn't a crime.
pointing out that she's hot isn't the issue (at least for me), but going on a weird tangent of what men are supposed to find attractive is just weird.
He went about defending himself in a moronic way.
Elsewhere on reddit: "Why does everyone think I'm creepy and don't trust me with their kids!?"
reddit is one single person.
Solipsism is it's own reward.
voting
upvoters of a comment are the same group of people every time.
SnapShot
(mirror | open source | create your own snapshots)
The people in that thread are the real mad men.
>i believe the polite term is hebephilia.
Isn't that...sexual attraction to Jews?
Hebrewphilia, not to be mistaken for attraction to Jewish guys with popped collars: Hebrophilia.
Then what does that make Woody Allen?
I would say Woody Allen qualifies for lots of different "philes"
Overrated?
Haven't you ever seen Woody Allen's Bananas? The only person who didn't like it was Dylan Farrow, who wrote a column about it.
Legal in six months, guys! Hope ya saved your Olsen twins countdown clock. We can just paste her picture over Mary Kate.
I'm more worried about the fact that child celebrities are so sexualized in the media than some guy who thinks Kiernan Shipka is "hot." This is a picture of Shipka in the Daily Mail from 2 years ago when she was 12. The title of the link was "I'll have to wait till I'm older." In the article they clarify that she'll have to wait till she's older...to watch Mad Men. But still, first impressions and all, ewww. Daily Mail is skeevy.
Oh god gross
Kinda redpilly.
Also a field day for circlejerk.
Responses here just confirm that most of the users in /r/SubredditDrama are fat and ugly women.
Well, I know I am.
She isn't even that hot. Hairy arms too.
14/18, would not bang
Objectively, that girl is hot.
Not objectively at all.
Is that supposed to be a universal fact? Cause I don't find her attractive at all.
Objectively, you should seek help.
Relax, if I needed help I wouldn't be able to do my job working with children.
Hmmm
I'm calling dibs on the submission to /r/subredditdramadrama.
You mean subjectively bro, but yeah, you're right.
So it is true that SRD has been taken over by SRS
Whatever opinion you have on this dude's comment... there is no drama there; just him saying shit and others going "dude?!?"
This belongs on cringe or SRS, not here.
Well if you'd read the thread you'd notice the conflict arising from the differences in opinion between several of the users. This conflict is what makes the drama.
Good drama has nuance... Melodrama has completely evil bad baddies, and completely good goody-two-shoes, and the inevitable outcome of good conquering evil.
I am fine with melodramatic subreddits like SRS, redpill, Men's Rights and etc... having their soap-opera there -- but SubredditDrama used to have some humor and nuance.
Nothing drains humor as fast as melodrama, and nothing kills nuance as fast as pious ideology
So it is drama, just not the kind of drama you like? So why don't you submit posts and comments on the kind of stuff that you do like?
>So it is drama, just not the kind of drama you like?
Haha, I love that you didn't even try to claim that SRS was not all about melodrama.
>So why don't you submit posts and comments on the kind of stuff that you do like?
When I catch them, I surely will.
> So it is true that SRD has been taken over by SRS
As an SRSer, yes, that is true, this our turf now. Beat it!
Then change the name to SubredditMelodrama -- that is your thing
I thought the patriarchy was the New World Order??? -- the times we live in are forever confusing with all these disperse sophmoric moron-clans fighting over cyber-turf
Your typical keyboard white knight