A user in /r/bitcoin says the value of bitcoin has to be stable for it to be a viable currency. Other users disagree. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
118 ups - 0 downs = 118 votes
236 comments submitted at 13:51:54 on Jul 15, 2014 by partytimebro
A user in /r/bitcoin says the value of bitcoin has to be stable for it to be a viable currency. Other users disagree. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
118 ups - 0 downs = 118 votes
236 comments submitted at 13:51:54 on Jul 15, 2014 by partytimebro
>A good investment that becomes ubiquitous and global, and is now massive enough to be a widely used currency :]
"widely used". Accepted by... what? 0.000001% of all businesses?
Regardless of all the unwarranted optimism, half-assed economics, and standard blindness from the sub I think we can all agree on one thing:
This is good for bitcoin. (I got to say it first! I'm so happy!)
100.000 merchants. you can buy anything from tanks, drugs, guns to mead, furniture, cars, and hotels
Can I go to my grocery store and use bitcoin? McDonald's? Buy from Amazon? Head to the liquor store and buy something? Gas? Go to an Acura dealership and buy a car? Can I buy a house in my neighborhood with it? Pay rent on an apartment in my area? Gas? Electric? Comcast? Verizon Bill?
If I can't do any, or all of them. Then why the fuck do I care if I can buy a tank? or Drugs? That's the stupidest shit I've heard from bitcoin yet. Hey guys you can buy a tank! And we already knew it was used for drugs.
That doesn't help me in the slightest, it's used as an investment by most people and drugs by the rest.
But..... tank!
And mead! I didn't know Valhalla accepted bitcoin
I've yet to fine a not-putrid commercial mead.
Dansk Mjød Viking Blod is good stuff if you can find it.
You should probably try "beer".
Which is not award. It's made with a wort, rather than a must.
Note what he listed first, which presumably occurred to him first: weapons and drugs.
These are the most important things Bitcoin is good for.
Don't forget child porn! You can buy tonnes of child porn with bitcoin!
Child porn and drugs for entertainment, guns to prevent those pesky cops from ruining it
Yeah, I want a tank, I play a metric shitton of world of tanks and want a real tank now!
what is world of tanks he asks? but dont worry im looking it up now cause it sounds awesome :-D
pst.
Warthunder is a better tank game than World of Tanks. Just fyi.
Eh, certainly better for air combat, I'm a little divided on ground. WT is certainly more realistic though
Its just a plain better game. WoT has dev time, but its so goddamn shit on optimization. Unless you have a godlike machine, even on low settings framerate can just tank.
You raise a legitimate point here
> That's the stupidest shit I've heard from bitcoin yet.
But it is at least honest about the real point of it: a shadow currency to buy illegal shit with.
drug dealers and pedophiles dream, no wonder reddit is gaga for it
"Wait I can buy drugs and not leave my house or interact with anyone? Awesome"
I really don't understand buying drugs on the internet though. Buying drugs is so easy and quick irl. I call my dealer and he's at my front door within 15 minutes 24 hours a day 7 days a week, it's easier to buy drugs at 3am than it is to buy pizza or beer.
He's also started doing an "introduce a friend and get £5 off your next £20 bag" deal as well as the occasional buy one get on free offer for repeat customers. You don't get that type of stuff on shady internet sites.
Damn. My guy serves me my shit in cups and receipts and whatnot.
When moving somewhere new it can be annoying dealing with subdealer type of people before finding a dedicated guy
how many grams does 20 pounds get you in the uk?
It sold in imperial weirdly. We get 1/8th ounce for 20 quid, or 3.5g.
Things like coke and MDMA are sold in grams though. The UK drug trade needs its units of measurement to be standardised.
we also use both grams and "eighths" as a unit of measuring weed.
It's because antisocial people on the internet don't know any dealers like that because all their friends were on the robotics teams.
The fuck's wrong with the robotics teams? Robots are awesome.
Nothing, robots are awesome. But they also don't have any drugs.
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Don't forget gas
Actually the community next door to mine is making a push to accept bitcoin nearly universally. I'm skeptical of it but it's a cool project.
That's what my girlfriend's is doing. You wouldn't know her, she's Canadian.
Source.
Depends where you live for most of those. There are ways to do all of them except for McDonalds. Typing from mobile so I can't provide links, but I know these services exist.
Purse.io for purchasing off amazon at 10-30% discount. I've spent around $70 to get $100 of stuff. The CEO of the equivalent of amazon in Japan recently said they expect to accept Bitcoin soon (I think years end).
Google "Bitcoin bill pay". I think there's at least two of these services. Also, Google " local government bill pay". I remember some local government in the US keyring you pay bills in Bitcoin.
You can't buy liquor from your liquor store but there are online breweries and wineries that take Bitcoin.
You can purchase certain fast food cards using gyft or egifter. I don't think McDonalds is an option however.
You can't buy a house in your neighborhood with Bitcoin but there are listings that say they accept Bitcoin. Check out bitpremier for a listing site for high ticket items including yachts and real estate. I think this is the weakest criticism however since nobody buys houses with a credit card.
Dish network is accepting Bitcoin soon. Not Comcast or Verizon but still a big name.
There are people who work for Bitcoin companies that take their entire salary in Bitcoin. If they figured it a way to survive, then I'm sure you can too.
Yea, you typed a lot but kind of missed the point.
I don't want to go online or wait to buy my shit. I want to go to the store and be done.
As for bills, it's still mostly services that are converting your dollars to btc then they convert it back to dollars. Do you not see a fundamental problem with that?
>There are people who work for Bitcoin companies that take their entire salary in Bitcoin. If they figured it a way to survive, then I'm sure you can too.
They convert it to US dollars and then use it most likely. Are you simple?
You are literally listing services that you either have to wait for, delivery. Or transactions that are converting to btc then back to fiat. Showing how worthless btc is besides a cool thing to say, HEY I BOUGHT WITH BITCOINS I'M COOL.
I get it, you want to horde your BTC and get others to buy into it so yours become more valuable. But I don't care. Until the services are there, I'll stick with my US dollars.
>Yea, you typed a lot but kind of missed the point. I don't want to go online or wait to buy my shit. I want to go to the store and be done.
Changing the goalposts I see. Besides groceries, 95% of what I buy is online.
>As for bills, it's still mostly services that are converting your dollars to btc then they convert it back to dollars. Do you not see a fundamental problem with that?
No? BTC is still too volatile for most people's risk preference and they would rather not hold any. When they can pay suppliers in BTC, then that can create a more closed economy. Starting a new currency from nothing and the technology behind it is more interesting than its current price.
>They convert it to US dollars and then use it most likely. Are you simple?
No need for insults buddy. And yes, I know they convert bitcoin to USD to pay for things they can't pay directly in bitcoin yet. If you're interested, here's someone who has done it: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2770ip/blockchaininfoceowepayemployeesinbitcoin/
I'm not saying it's easy to live solely off bitcoin, just that it is possible. I don't care about tanks or drugs like the other poster. Anyone storing all their eggs in the bitcoin basket would be dumb to do so.
P.S. It's hoard, not horde.
Shifting the goalposts, or just expecting a currency to actually be useful in the usual manner expected of currencies?
If you can't use them in a day to day transaction, what's the point? Please don't say child porn or drugs.
All those services are converting bitcoin to dollars before purchase. The fact that the conversion needs to be done shows that bitcoin is NOT a currency in itself
But they are still used as a medium of exchange, which is one of the basic qualifications for something to be currency.
if i tell you "hey man, i'll give you 50 chickens for your old chair" and you say "that's cool, but go sell the chickens and then give me the money you make first. then i'll give you the chair", it doesn't make sense to claim that chickens are a legitimate medium of exchange.
So you still got those chickens?
i only have 45 but i'll throw in 2 ducks instead.
Now what kind of chickens are we talking about; Rhode Island Reds? Ancona? Leghorn?
I'd be willing to pay extry if you had some of them New Jersey Giant chickens.
As a one time occurrence, probably not. If you partnered with a company that specialized in accepting and handling chickens, selling the chickens on the market, and then getting you the same amount in another currency, then you could certainly make an argument as to why they are a medium of exchange. Especially if you're not teh only company who has started doing this.
Any way, chickens are a bad example because they have completely different properties from bitcoin and other currencies which wouldn't make them a good currency.
>If you partnered with a company that specialized in accepting and handling chickens, selling the chickens on the market, and then getting you the same amount in another currency, then you could certainly make an argument as to why they are a medium of exchange. Especially if you're not teh only company who has started doing this.
So if I were a chicken farmer, and I made an agreement with a charcoal chicken shop to buy my chickens and give me cash, then chickens are a currency?
And people thought I was crazy for building a coop on the back of the truck. Now I'm the one with the fat pockets and they're stuck holding the chicks.
Except the payment processor is doing the exchange at the time of sale, not you (holder of bitcoin). So your analogy doesn't fit.
It's a currency-like substance not subject to review by the FDA. Put it down your facehole at your own risk.
If you are going to use that broad of a definition then what's the point? Under your definition, a car is a currency because it is often traded in for dollars that are then used to make other purchases. Just because something qualifies as a currency under your definition does it mean people are going to use it.
they will accept it if enough people want it. the consumer is king, but he must use his power. the advantages of bitcoin are big. no fees, no third party which takes fees, no goverment which controlls it, no inflation. it is the currency of the future, accept it or not. you can keep your worthless paper money if you like, it only works as long as the FED keeps printing them. bitcoin has no boundaries, no borders, it is the first global currency. aye, i actually found a t-90 in a tor shop
> no fees,
Neither does a real currency.
> no third party which takes fees,
If you purchase goods from a store, there are no fees and you can purchase many items online without fees.
Fees in terms of transferring money from one individual to another? That's something else, but I can transfer money to someone with no fees by writing them a cheque, giving them cash, or even making a direct deposit to their account.
>no goverment which controlls it,
And we see how well that worked out with the MTGOX collapse. How many bitcoins did it lose? 650,000 that no one would ever see back? This used to happen too, until measures were put in place to insure deposits. Bitcoin has proven to be really unstable.
>no inflation.
This is just patently false. Bitcoins has experience strong volatility which has lead to massive devaluing of the currency over the last several years. The Fed, and many other central banks have been inflation targeting. The most important factor in whether or not to raise interest rates has been inflation, typically around 2 per cent.
One of the most important features of a currency is that it acts as a store of value, meaning it is stable. Bitcoin is not that.
> Neither does a real currency. there are fees, the banks pays them as soon as you do anything with your money. even if you just let it on your account it costs money. your pay those fees with interests on credits you take. > If you purchase goods from a store, there are no fees and you can purchase many items online without fees. false too. not you pay the fee directly, the store pays the fees. mastercard charges around 5%. paypal 2%. don't forget the chargebacks, what are around 10% of all purchases. bitcoin chargebacks? never heard of. > And we see how well that worked out with the MTGOX collapse. karpeles stole money, so what? bitcoin is safe, the exchange was not. it was a good thing. one collapsed, the others became safer. > This is just patently false. Bitcoins has experience strong volatility which has lead to massive devaluing ayeayeaye.....inflation =/= volatility. inflation means the loss of value over time. US$ lost 98% of its value since end of the gold standard. bitcoin gained endless % of value because it startet with nothing, and see where it is now. in 2 years it will be around 5-10k, in 10 years 100k would be normal.
Wait, did you just list not being able to do a chargeback a good thing?
It's good for businesses, who can screw their customers with impunity.
yes. from merchant view it is the best thing since invention of the internet. 1/10 credit card purchases get chargeback, and the seller can't do anything about it. he lost his money and his item. paypal is the biggest fraud in modern histroy, it is so easy to steal with them. one reason why you can't buy bitcoins with paypal (go check it out). in the end, one underpaid dude at paypal decides if you get your money back or not. the customers can claim that the package never arrived, and even if you give paypal tracking number they ignore it. if bitcoin was useless, nobody would use it. but apperantly there is a need for a safe currency.
Do you have a source for that 1 in 10 number? My understanding is that most card companies will start heavily penalizing merchants if they exceed a chargeback rate of 1 to 2.5%. From personal experience working at a card-not-present merchant that number seems high as well.
MTGOX collapsing and millions stolen?
This is good for Bitcoin.
\> Going to tell us the benefits of a cryptocurrency
\> Can tell us about complex economics
\> Can't reddit
Noob can't even green text.
> bitcoin has no boundaries
But isn't there a limit to the amount of bitcoin available?! That sounds like a huge boundary.
More importantly you can't use bitcoin without an internet connection and electricity. At least I can still use my cash when the power goes out.
> you can keep your worthless paper money if you like
I will, thanks. It's the currency of reality.
> it is the currency of the future, accept it or not.
Surely if enough people don't accept it, it won't be the currency of the future.
this year around 500 million $ will move into bitcoin. and people follow the money. i understand that you are afraid of the future, but you can't stop it. neither some other dudes. even if 1 billion don't accept it, the other 6 do.
I think it's funny you think $500M is impressive. .003% of US GDP is supposed to impress me?
$500m is a literal drop in the bucket compared to the overall economy.
>even if 1 billion don't accept it, the other 6 do.
I'm not sure those numbers are correct.
Considering how there is no billion after the 6, they ended up being more accurate than what they were trying to say.
$500 million is a small company of 100-200 people. Not a global currency.
> no fees
Bitcoin is already transitioning towards fees. At some point mining as it stands now will not be profitable and miners will need some other form of income to justify the work they do (which is necessary for the function of the network). Thus: fees.
> no fees
So I am to understand that Bitpay is a non-profit organisation? Respect!
maybe they will add fees at some point, but currently not. but bitpay is not a must, you can accept bitcoins directly, without third party processor.
>no third party which takes fees,
Um, the miners take fees. They collect an 11.11% tax on holdings throughpout the year in the form of depreciation from the 1.3 million bitcoins created and handed to them in a year and also collect fees on actual transactions.
But you wouldn't want to because the value of bitcoin might go up in the next day, and then you've wasted your money. Just because you can buy stuff with bitcoin doesn't make it a good idea to actually do it. It'll never work as a currency unless it stabilises.
Which is why people see Bitcoin as an investment, rather then a currency, which is particularly telling from all the stories of people gambling through Bitcoin buying.
I really can't see anything coming from Bitcoin. It's interesting to be sure, but I don't think it's viable as a currency unless there's some drastic changes.
I personally don't think bitcoin will ever be a viable currency. Better designed crypto-currencies in the future maybe, but definitely not bitcoin. It definitely is interesting though, and one of my favourite types of drama!
I saw an advertisement awhile back about some apartment rental accepting Bitcoin. I thought it was hilarious at the time. What moron would sign a lease specifying payment in Bitcoin when in a year their rent could have increased (or decreased) by a significant amount? Why would anybody take that risk?
That is legitimately insane, why would either the landlord or renter agree to that? The value of bitcoin can half or double on a weekly basis!
I don't think the lease was denominated in bitcoin, they just accept an equivalent cash value in bitcoin.
I am currently in downtown Chicago (3rd largest city in the US). I'd like to go buy a Coke with a Bitcoin and have it with my lunch.
Could you point me to where I can do this?
How much coke? I'm sure you can find a drug dealer and buy from him!
2 liter bottle
That's a lot of coke!
rough morning.
Its a hell of a drug
Easy there Mayor Ford.
If he was Mayor Ford, he would be buying both a two litre of Coca-Cola and a two litre bottle of coke.
So... how come the US uses the imperial system for milk, but metric for soda?
We do both, but I need more than 20oz.
Litres are conveniently just the right size to fit between gallons and large numbers of fluid-ounces.
Never heard of quarts?
Quart sounds weird to say. Despite being a pretty close unit of measurement, it just doesn't sound as good as litre. Also, there are apparently like four different kinds of quarts.
I'm a metric user, so Quarts didn't immediately come to mind. Pints did, but we only use that measurement for alcohol where I live (Australia).
Quart only sounds weird cause it's not really used often.
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Huh, Chicago has less places to spend bitcoin than Kansas City. I would have assumed the opposite. Just going off coinmap.org, Chicago Pizza and about 10 Rosati's Pizza, as well as ~30 other businesses from mechanics to a smoke shop take bitcoin in Chicago. In KC we have a whole bunch of chinese takeout and pizza places that accept it.
Neat website (didn't know the Sun-Times accepted it), but it doesn't really specify if I can use it in person to buy a Coke.
Online ordering is one thing (and it's a good means for that), but if I'm trying to see how good it is as a currency. Walking into a store and buying a Coke should be a pretty easy task to perform with a currency.
~40 businesses
in the entirety of Chicago
For a 5 year old technology. The amount of businesses is starting to increase quite rapidly.
That's a way slower uptake rate than things like wifi or credit cards to name a few. 40 businesses in a city the size of Chicago isn't even a blip on the radar.
Link for the lazy, there are 16 places that accept BTC here. Seems like it's mostly small businesses and places to eat. I don't know if it'll ever take off but it's certainly interesting to watch.
Where can I buy a tank with bitcoin? I'm genuinely curious. Who is selling tanks to people? Do they ship to the DC area?
The shipping costs are outrageous unless you've got Prime.
I don't think they take bitcoin but you can buy a tank on Ebay.
Of course, what you can't use it for is paying your creditors, suppliers, or employees.
of course you can, and especially for that. try to send money to your family in another country? uhhh, 5% fee is best i can so "western union". you can get your paycheck everywhere in the world, at the exact date and no minute later. ask your bank if they send money to another country within 10 minutes....for free.....they will laugh at you.
Do you have a mortgage? Do you pay rent? If either is the case, I invite you put your "money" where your mouth is and try to pay your bank/landlord with Bitcoins next month. Let us known how it goes.
no, i recieve rent. and i get my rent from one guy in bitcoin. i only use my bank account for amazon or ebay and supermarket. is it because you invested to late? 10000% gain isn't much, 10.000$ is very likely within the next two years. did you lose money on gox?
No, I've never owned any bitcoin. So you're claiming some one pays you rent in bitcoin and you don't have a mortgage on the building in question. And you only use your bank account for Amazon, eBay, and groceries? So this building you own - do you pay insurance on the building in bitcoin? All your other business expenses in bitcoin? Do you pay taxes on it in bitcoin? Do you pay taxes on your rental income in bitcoin? If you don't pay taxes, are you planning to pay your lawyer in bitcoin?
Top kek
Is the bitcoin guy's rent a set number of bitcoins or is it $x in bitcoins?
>98 children
FUCK. YES.