Germany just crushed Brazil in the World Cup semifinals. So of course /r/soccer is talking about... the politics of flag burning? (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
21 ups - 0 downs = 21 votes
42 comments submitted at 13:27:25 on Jul 9, 2014 by partytimebro
The only people I see complaining about flag-burning are Nationalists or Americans. Who gives a shit, it is a flag.
Should I just link this to /r/subredditdramadrama now or wait until it fleshes out a bit?
Don't worry, I got this.
Should I just nuke this entire chain now or wait until it gets some reports first?
You know what SRD needs? A flag.
Can we burn it?
We won't have to! SRSs, SRS, TRP, etc will do it for us!
Why would they burn their own flag?
^^^Because ^^^we're ^^^literally ^^^them?
Depends. Are you literally Hitler?
Give it some time, let it simmer.
Stir it gently so it doesn't stick to the bottom of the pot.
maybe in a second pan carmelize some onions and shit, make it fancy.
Its as if symbolism simply doesn't exist. What if I lit a cross on fire in a black person's lawn? Who gives a shit, its just some wood. What if I took a dump on the Qur'an or Bible? Who cares, they're just some books.
The point is that things can have meaning and value outside of their material cost. And that value can differ among people, cultures, and nations.
If you lit a cross on fire in a black person's lawn it would be intimidation because of who used to do that and for what. Take a shit on the Qur'an or Bible, fine. They are just books. People in the US love to use 'People have died under our flag' well so have people in every other country in the world. People die in wars all the time, what does it matter.
> If you lit a cross on fire in a black person's lawn it would be intimidation because of who used to do that and for what.
This is call context, which is the same for the flag.
The only time I'd be offended, is if -- during wartime, the conqueror of another country took down the flag flying over that country's capital building, and burned it; then hoisted their own flag.
Yes, but thats not the same for other people.
>The only time I'd be offended
Think of my reply less for you, more for expand in original reply.
And THAT's the part where you'd be offended? Not the part where your country gets invaded?
Meh, shit happens.
"Aw, damn it, we're getting invaded again."
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Now I'm imagining you sitting at a table with some coffee and a newspaper, you look up to see the soldier going down the streets and the cacophony of explosion, gun fire and screams raises and you slowly raise the mug of coffee and sip from it with a shrug.
Do you understand that the same concept of context which gives lighting a cross on fire its meaning is exactly what gives flags meaning beyond being just flags? Same with holy religious books. The only difference is that lighting a cross on fire is symbolic and means something to you while those other things don't. You have to realize that those things mean as much or more to other people as lighting a cross on fire does to you.
What does burning a flag mean then?
To some people its like saying "fuck you" to an entire way of life. In the US, our military are trained to hold the welfare of the country above all else. And that the flag symbolizes that welfare. They go to war, fight, and die far from their families and friends because of this belief. They watch their brothers in arms fall because of it. Then they get home, traumatized, often not given the proper support. Put yourself in that veteran's shoes. Imagine all you fought for, what your friends died for, summed up in a flag that is callously being burned by someone who simply has no concept of what that action means to you. Its as if all that sacrifice meant nothing and is being burned up just like the flag.
But this happens EVERYWHERE. Only in the US do people complain about it, I come from a family of vets, my uncle (who fought in Bosnia/Gulf 1+2/The Troubles) was traumatised after he saw his best friend killed next to him. He has never complained about anyone burning a flag, it is their right to do so. People have fought and died under every flag. I see it as the US caring far too much about their Military and a nation obsessed with their military. That however, is just my opinion.
Whether its right or wrong to be upset by the burning of a flag is going to be debatable. What isn't debatable is that it does mean something beyond just being a flag, at least to some people. Good or bad, better or worse. That's what I was replying to in your original comment, as to why anyone would care since its just a flag.
Its almost like different countries have different cultures and beliefs.
Like some places don't know the joys of "Your socially obligated to give me candy day" in October.
I love "socially obligated to give me candy" day!
So you're saying if I burn crosses on everyone's lawn, it'll magically be less intimidating to minorities?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
Lots of countries have gone and made it illegal- the US not being one of them.
Flag symbolize a country, burning said flag symbolizes disrespect by burning an effigy of the country.
Or in the case of Brazil it only means disappointment in the result. The flag burning thing has different meanings across countries and trying to apply the American interpretation of it unto all cultures is not a good way of interpreting things.
In many cultures, including mine, burning a flag is seen as pretty damn harmless.