Trans person in /r/ainbow disagrees with the use of gender neutral pronouns outside of 'they.' Goes about as expected. (self.SubredditDrama)
SubredditDrama
32 ups - 0 downs = 32 votes
One person argues that the word 'ze' is already fairly well known.
Do people pretend to be trans to get special snowflake status? Is the word 'transtrender' a slur?
61 comments submitted at 22:33:38 on Jul 4, 2014 by cheese93007
"Ze" actually is becoming a lot more well known in the public, as a joke of course.
Yes, by bigots and transphobes.
People who don't agree with me are bigots and transphobic!!!!1!!11!
~~They~~ ~~Them~~ Ze are out to get you!
Disrespecting and mocking trans people makes you a bigot and a transphobe.
Ze isn't a trans people pronoun though? Trans people can be binary as well.
I didn't say it was a pronoun for all trans people. Trans people who are non-binary are still trans. Being a bigot towards them is transphobia.
You can also be non-trans and be non-binary though, being trans has nothing to do with extra pronouns. Might as well say that people are racist too, because some black people are non-binary.
You seem to have a terrible understanding of trans politics. Non-binary people from specific cultures not being considered trans doesn't make your transphobia any less transphobic. Because there are non-binary people who do consider themselves trans and the obsession with "protecting" the English language from new pronouns to include them is hurtful.
Keep telling yourself your actions are not transphobic. The only people who will back you up are more bigots.
No one is mocking the people, they're mocking the ridiculous and unnecessary new pronoun.
I wouldn't say it's unnecessary. It would be great to have a really strong neutral gender pronoun.
I feel like "they" doesn't quite work, it feels really impersonal for some reason, and then there's the confusion as to whether you're talking about an individual or group.
Unnecessary new pronoun? How is it unnecessary when the English language doesn't have pronouns for people who don't fit the gender binary?
Are you going to start fighting against words like Redditors, subreddits, upvotes, and downvotes too? New words being made is such a horrible act after all.
>How is it unnecessary when the English language doesn't have pronouns for people who don't fit the gender binary?
Except that it does. Them and They are gender neutral and can be used in the singular or plural form. I know some people don't like the singular They but it's been used for at least 600 years so I consider it pretty well established at this point.
Why should all non-binary people want to be called by a plural pronoun that sometimes is used as a singular pronoun based on context? I'm not knocking the people that prefer it but it's not an ideal situation for everyone
Not using a desired pronoun is not disrespect or mocking. Try again.
So you disrespect that person's desire to be called their preferred pronoun and you make a joke out of it (mocking) but you still don't consider it disrespectful or mocking. Okay.
> So you disrespect that person's desire to be called their preferred pronoun
You can desire to be called whatever you want. If it falls outside of the normal range of communication then a person not abiding by your request is not disrespect. Sorry.
> you make a joke out of it (mocking)
You are the only person talking about making fun of trans people. If you have a point, back it up with discussion, not getting emotional and repeating the same thing over and over.
You seem unable to understand that I can actually read the thread and I can see where someone specifically brought up people making a joke out of "Ze". I can also see the response where someone called me "Zu" to infuriate me. You are also the one who relies on claims that I'm being "emotional" as a way to dismiss my argument.
> You can desire to be called whatever you want. If it falls outside of the normal range of communication then a person not abiding by your request is not disrespect. Sorry.
Please define normal.
You seem unable to tell me why not using Ze is disrespectful besides just stating that it is disrespectful.
> someone specifically brought up people making a joke out of "Ze". I can also see the response where someone called me "Zu" to infuriate me.
Someone stated that Ze gets made fun of and another person jokingly called you Zu (which personally, I thought was funny considering the context). So which one of these 2 people is the disrespectful bigot?
> are also the one who relies on claims that I'm being "emotional" as a way to dismiss my argument.
How am I relying on that? Besides saying you were emotional in the last sentence of my last reply, I have never mentioned that you were emotional in refuting your points or asking you questions you have yet to answer. Sooo yeah.
As for your links, I think it is pretty clear that if you have to explain the words you're using (in this case Ze) and how and why you're using them to the overwhelmingly vast majority of the population then it falls outside the scope of normal. I don't really understand what you are trying to say with 2 of those links... "I don't want to call you by that strange word you just made up" "Yeah, well some cultures have multiple genders and heres a blog about third genders!". What?
Yeah, this whole thread is fucking gross. An unusual pronoun isn't that damn hard to use :/
Try telling that to someone with a learning disability or memory problems. The uses of they/their/them have naturally developed in our speech, but remembering which pronoun to use in which case could get very hard and be extremely embarrassing. And having people jump on you with "It's not that hard!" doesn't help matters.
Not to mention it just sounds silly. Like from a fantasy novel or something.
I don't think it's disrespecting...or mocking.
Ze sounds kinda dumb. People point out that it sounds kinda dumb.
I personally prefer "They" or "She". But each their own.
Zu sound upset.
What a shocker. People upset by bigots? What has this world come to?
It's really weird that this would make someone a bigot.
Like there are people who would violently and savagely beating those of the trans community but I'm in league with those people because I won't use some words.
They don't really express anything that can't already be expressed by the singular 'they' or just calling someone by their name, so there's no real way that they would ever catch on. And ultimately they just sound forced and stupid.
I'm more upset with people that have a holier-than-thou attitude. Much like yourself.
Seems like this SRD thread is getting brigaded by TIA, I'm sorry your posts are getting flamed by bigots.
SRD just has many TIA subscribers. Their crowd always downvotes everything like angry little children so I'm not too bothered by the downvotes.
I honestly feel sad for the trans people who have to deal with them.
Mate I know you desperately want to feel oppressed but it just isn't happening right now