Roma. Islam. Nazis. Hitler. Godwin. Religion. Atheism. /r/news (np.reddit.com)

SubredditDrama

59 ups - 0 downs = 59 votes

64 comments submitted at 16:03:28 on Jun 19, 2014 by imakuram

  • [-]
  • trashyredditry
  • 30 Points
  • 17:11:47, 19 June

> Most nazi's aren't muslims and I still hate them. 

Good that was cleared up...

  • [-]
  • geargirl
  • 7 Points
  • 19:26:00, 19 June

>I don't hate people from Indonesia, or people from Morocco, I hate muslims, regardless of nationality or skin color.

Later on...

>The majority may be okay now. but there is a minority that has a hidden agenda which is trying to infiltrate key parts of western society (one example) and once they do the rest of them will fail in line and join them.

  • [-]
  • Krescus
  • 3 Points
  • 19:41:38, 19 June

Is Geert Wilders posting on reddit?

  • [-]
  • ThatGuy_989
  • 50 Points
  • 16:59:08, 19 June

>Gypsies aren't hated because of the color of their skin.

Is this the European version of "I don't hate black people, just black culture"?

  • [-]
  • turtleeatingalderman
  • 38 Points
  • 17:12:37, 19 June

Before I realized how big of a circlejerk hatred towards 'gypsies' was on reddit, I'd always be told that I just couldn't grasp the nature of the problem, as apparently I'm not European. Problem there is that I am, though I guess not a real one because I don't hate the Roma. Just how the Roma who aren't committing crimes aren't really Roma. These definitions can get confusing, but I try my best to keep up.

  • [-]
  • Firenzo101
  • 3 Points
  • 20:15:05, 19 June

Well depends though. I think travellers, both Roma and Irish are not incorporating into society. The reason for that is a whole nother argument but to the whole issue off as racism is to oversimplify things. The other thing is the use of the word gypsy. I think Americans interpret the word gypsy as referring to Roma. This maybe the origin of the word but it's common usage is used as a synonym for travellers rather than the Roma. That said peoples actions are still disproportionate but I don't think most people are racist, more afraid of a culture that has very little in common with they're own, nomadic traveller culture is very different from that of western Europe. That said, inevitably some people are just ignorant but I do not think they are the majority. It's always the vocal minority that gets peoples attention

  • [-]
  • ucstruct
  • 11 Points
  • 17:31:53, 19 June

Not only that, but its not like skin color isn't part of it in the case of Roma either. Its a minority with identifiable features, of course it can be racist too.

  • [-]
  • turtleeatingalderman
  • 11 Points
  • 17:49:44, 19 June

There's no history of anyone ever being racist towards the Irish. Never.

  • [-]
  • ThatGuy_989
  • 8 Points
  • 18:14:37, 19 June

Slightly related, yesterday people were comparing Notre Dame's team name to Washington's saying that if one was a slur then both were slurs.

  • [-]
  • Lystrodom
  • -1 Points
  • 18:36:05, 19 June

Well, to be fair, Fighting Irish is kind of offensive, as is the logo.

  • [-]
  • potato1
  • 6 Points
  • 18:42:57, 19 June

> Well, to be fair, Fighting Irish is kind of offensive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotreDameFighting_Irish#Moniker

>Just exactly where the moniker "Fighting Irish" came from is a matter of much debate and legend. One possibility is that the nickname is inherited from Irish immigrant soldiers who fought in the Civil War with the Union's Irish Brigade. Notre Dame's claim to the nickname would seem to come from the presence of Fr. William Corby, CSC, the third president of Notre Dame, who was at the Battle of Gettysburg. Fr. Corby served as chaplain of the Irish Brigade and granted general absolution to the troops in the midst of the battle. This is commemorated in the painting "Absolution Under Fire," part of Notre Dame's permanent art collection. A print of the painting "The Original Fighting Irish" by former Fighting Irish lacrosse player Revere La Noue is on permanent display at Notre Dame's Arlotta Stadium. The print also hangs in the office of head Notre Dame football coach Brian Kelly, who said that he had to have the work which captures the "swagger" and "toughness" of the football program after seeing it online.[2][3]

>There are several other legends of how Notre Dame came to be the "Fighting Irish." One story suggests the moniker was born in 1899 during a game between Notre Dame and Northwestern. The Fighting Irish were leading 5-0 at halftime when the Wildcat fans began to chant, "Kill the Fighting Irish, kill the Fighting Irish," as the second half opened.[4] Another tale has the nickname originating at halftime of the Notre Dame-Michigan game in 1909. With his team trailing, one Notre Dame player yelled to his teammates —who had names like Dolan, Kelly, Donnelly, Glynn, Duffy, and Ryan— "What's the matter with you guys? You're all Irish and you're not fighting worth a lick." Notre Dame came back to win the game, and (someone in) the press, after overhearing the remark, reported the game as a victory for the "Fighting Irish."

>The most generally accepted explanation by the University is that the press coined the nickname in the 1920s as a characterization of Notre Dame's athletic teams, of their never-say-die fighting spirit, and the Irish qualities of grit, determination, and tenacity. Notre Dame alumnus Francis Wallace popularized the Fighting Irish nickname in his New York Daily News columns in the 1920s with respect to the university. In 1927, Fr. Matthew Walsh, CSC, adopted the nickname as the official moniker of the University's sports teams.[citation needed]

Doesn't seem derogatory at all to me.

  • [-]
  • Lystrodom
  • -1 Points
  • 19:07:56, 19 June

Did you read up on the origin of "Redskins" then? It's similar.

  • [-]
  • potato1
  • 3 Points
  • 19:17:00, 19 June

I don't have a horse in this race, but the fact that there are organized protests by american indian groups to the use of the term "redskin" seems to set "redskin" apart from "fighting irish," since I'm not aware of any organized opposition to that name from the irish or irish-american communities.

  • [-]
  • Lystrodom
  • 2 Points
  • 20:04:52, 19 June

Yeah, I'm not saying it's awful. I'm just saying it's kind of offensive. Not, like, the worst thing ever, nor am I advocating its changing.

The term Redskin comes from Native warriors who would paint their faces red for battle. It was originally supposed to be honoring the warriors, much like the fighting Irish moniker.

If the term Redskin can be offensive now (which it is), why does the origin of the moniker for the Fighting Irish matter?

And you can't tell me the logo for the Fighting Irish isn't offensive. An Irish person has to be a little Leprechaun looking dude? Really?

  • [-]
  • potato1
  • 1 Points
  • 20:15:39, 19 June

> The term Redskin comes from Native warriors who would paint their faces red for battle. It was originally supposed to be honoring the warriors, much like the fighting Irish moniker.

That's not as clear as you're making it out to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

>If the term Redskin can be offensive now (which it is), why does the origin of the moniker for the Fighting Irish matter?

It matters because what's your basis for finding the term "fighting Irish" offensive? "Redskin" has a number of negative historical associations. "Fighting Irish" doesn't have that history. Do you think "Fighting Illini" is offensive?

>And you can't tell me the logo for the Fighting Irish isn't offensive. An Irish person has to be a little Leprechaun looking dude? Really?

Like I said, I don't have a horse in this race, but it's my perception that the mascot isn't meant to represent an Irish person (or indeed a person of any type), but a Leprechaun, which is a well-known creature in traditional Irish myth, and has therefore become symbol commonly associated with Ireland and Irish culture. Much like how the Stanford Redwood isn't meant to represent an actual person from Stanford, but a pun on the name origin of the city of Palo Alto, CA.

  • [-]
  • Oberyn_Martells_Eyes
  • 4 Points
  • 18:43:10, 19 June

I can see why Irish Americans take little offense to "Fightin' Irish" compared to Native Americans taking strong offense to "Redskins." One name describes a tough culture whereas the other name is a caricature of a culture. Confused? Me too.

  • [-]
  • SilverTongie
  • 1 Points
  • 19:26:37, 19 June

Whenever I hear someone say that we are all alcoholics, and hellraisers . It makes me want to get drunk, and punch someone in the face.

  • [-]
  • barsoap
  • 2 Points
  • 20:10:37, 19 June

> Its a minority with identifiable features

If out of traditional garb, nope. No. Virtually indistinguishable from most southern Europeans, completely indistinguishable from Iranians. Which all count as "white" per European definition.

And that's also where an important Catch-22 comes from: To escape stigma in many areas, Roma just blend into the rest of the populace, furthering the stigma that "All gypsies are criminal" because the criminal ones aren't doing that.

  • [-]
  • NotARiotEmployee75
  • -9 Points
  • 19:27:56, 19 June

>"I don't hate black people, just black culture"?

Why do SJWs on this site hate that saying so much? There's a very clear difference between saying "I hate all black people no matter how they act" and saying "I hate the toxic culture that they come from, but I have no problems with blacks who aren't a part of it."

  • [-]
  • ThatGuy_989
  • 8 Points
  • 19:40:40, 19 June

Because it is almost always used by racists as an excuse to be racist.

  • [-]
  • turtleeatingalderman
  • 1 Points
  • 20:20:44, 19 June

/r/BadSocialScience would have a field day if he showed up.

  • [-]
  • Saganomics
  • 6 Points
  • 19:37:54, 19 June

Oh god here we go again

  • [-]
  • NotARiotEmployee75
  • -8 Points
  • 19:43:24, 19 June

You're an SRSer. Care to explain why you dislike that statement so much?

  • [-]
  • Saganomics
  • 4 Points
  • 19:45:11, 19 June

Has anyone ever called you "sir" without following it up with "you're making a scene"?

  • [-]
  • NotARiotEmployee75
  • -1 Points
  • 19:55:17, 19 June

Looks like you know I'm right.

  • [-]
  • Saganomics
  • 1 Points
  • 20:04:57, 19 June

Whatever you say dear.

  • [-]
  • PrettyBoyBitch
  • 2 Points
  • 20:09:10, 19 June

non srser here, you're not very smart bud

  • [-]
  • Oberyn_Martells_Eyes
  • 17 Points
  • 18:37:58, 19 June

I see that very few people in /r/WorldNews read the article. Details:

  • Romanis in France live in makeshift tent towns near "mult-racial council estates."
  • Darius was accused, by the mob, of burglarizing the nearby estate.
  • These estates are lower-class areas filled with African and Muslim immigrants.
  • 20 individuals went to the Roma camp and dragged Darius away from his family. Any Romanis who attempted to stop this kidnapping were attacked.
  • Darius' kidnappers called his family and demanded $15k. The family assumed Darius was dead and didn't pay.
  • Darius' family discovers he is in the hospital two days later.
  • French president makes a statement saying this attack was deplorable.
  • French government still acting on Sarkozy's (former president) immigration law that all jobless immigrants will be deported to their home country.

Europe, especially eastern Europe, has persecuted Romanis for a multitude of reasons.

  • Enslavement from the 13th Century up until the middle of the 19th century in Eastern Europe.
  • Spanish Romanis were forced into labor camps in the mid-18th Century. This lead to displaced families not unlike American slavery.
  • Mistaken for the Ottomans in the late 15th century, Romanis were persecuted the German Reichstag and accused of being spies for the Turks.
  • In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws removed German citizenship status from all Romanis in Germany, leading to imprisonment in concentration camps and genocide. Estimates of 220,000-500,000 Romanis died from their genocide. The Bohemian Romani language became extinct.
  • Forced assimilation by the Habsburg Monarchy (Austria 1740-80), Spain (17th Century), the United Kingdom (18th Century). Norway (early 20th Century) removed Romani children from their parents and forced them into state institutions.

Modern Persecution

  • Czech Republic and Slovakia forcibly segregate Romani school children.
  • Romani women forcibly and coercively sterilized in Czechoslovakia (1973-2001)
  • In 2008, the Italian government reacted to the rape and murder of an Italian woman by a Romani man, by declaring Romanis were a national security risk.
  • Since 2010, France has lead a movement to forcibly repatriate Romanis to their countries of origin. 51 camps were demolished in the summer of 2010. French guards killed a Romani driving through a checkpoint that resulted in a riot at the nearby police station.

North America

  • In 1997, Romani refugees were allowed into Canada. Of course, Neo-Nazis protested outside of their hotel with signs that read "Honk If You Hate Gypsies" and other hateful messages. The protesters were later charged with promoting hatred.
  • In 2012, a prominent Canadian conservative politician Ezra Levant said in a radio show, "... Too many have come here as false refugees. And they come here to gyp us again and rob us blind as they have done in Europe for centuries … They’re gypsies. And one of the central characteristics of that culture is that their chief economy is theft and begging."
  • The United States, lacking historical tension, typically refer to Romanis as Gypsies out of ignorance, not bigotry. Most Americans see "Gypsies" as a lifestyle or trade rather than an ethnicity. Fortune tellers in America refer to themselves as gypsies although many do not have Romani heritage.

For almost 1,000 years, Romanis have been subjugated to slavery, forced assimilation, genocide, segregation, and an overall "old wives tale" type of distrust. Gangs and organized crime groups run rampant throughout the Romani community (most likely as a reaction to their dire situation) and the media and mass populace blame all Romanis for the criminal acts.

Place any large group of people in chains, deny them education, separate their families, remove their language, and deny them job status. See how quickly they become just like the Romanis.

Source

  • [-]
  • turtleeatingalderman
  • 5 Points
  • 19:26:31, 19 June

Let's also remember how in recent decades the Spanish government has undertaken steps to not act like fascists in their treatment of the Roma and encourage rehabilitation and integration via compensatory education, with considerable success. Who would've guessed that not outright persecuting a minority and fulfilling duties as elected representatives would help ameliorate some of the social problems they face.

  • [-]
  • Oberyn_Martells_Eyes
  • 4 Points
  • 19:29:25, 19 June

Maybe France can learn something from Spain.

  • [-]
  • meningles
  • 3 Points
  • 19:54:42, 19 June

> Place any large group of people in chains, deny them education, separate their families, remove their language, and deny them job status. See how quickly they become just like the Romanis.

You're forgetting that /r/worldnews hates any group in this category.

  • [-]
  • turtleeatingalderman
  • 14 Points
  • 17:47:36, 19 June

>The Roma are a scourge on humanity and they are from several different ethnicities.

>Also, racism is prejudging people by their skin color - this would be prejudice. Prejudice is formed by the continued bad behavior of a cultural group. Ignoring the proclivity towards thieving and violence of the roma is not "tolerant" it is stupid. Get off your high horse.

One thing we know about the terms 'race' and 'racism' is that they never adapt to the societal variances in how 'race' and 'ethnicity' are conceptualized, particularly in modern states with increasingly diverse populations. Never, ever.

The idea of 'race' certainly didn't change in any way in the early-to-mid twentieth century with the consolidation of 'white' races (previously compartmentalized into Anglo-Saxon, Germanic or sometimes 'Hunnic', Slavic, etc.) into a singular 'caucasian' race.

It also certainly never underwent any changes after the time the first naturalization statute was put into effect in the United States in 1790, as the model of three distinct racial groups (white, native, and black) organized on a continuum ranging from civility to barbarism, became an increasingly less effective model in maintaining this hegemony amid waves of immigrants from Europe and Asia with an otherwise 'white' complexion. Nope, people definitely didn't begin to think of the "free, white persons" definition of citizenship as over-inclusive, and begin to re-work the application of the word 'race'.

And nobody would ever argue that there are any examples of 'race' and 'ethnicity' have been terms adaptable to the circumstances in describing 'like' populations in places like Latin America, sometimes by marginalized populations themselves, other times by the state to organize populations to suit various political ends. That would just be outrageous. Nor would anyone dare to point out cases of behavior being associated with a race rather than viewed in isolation, or independent thereof. The idea that the Cuban revolutionary hero Quintín Bandera was vilified and forgotten because of racism is ridiculous. He was just seen as an unsavory, uncivilized, and unrefined person—his refusal to conform to roles deemed fitting for people of his color had nothing to do with it.

  • [-]
  • bitterred
  • 29 Points
  • 16:17:05, 19 June

Oh cool, another round of "but its totally ok to be prejudiced against the roma, they deserve it." That totally doesn't sound like every racists justification ever.

  • [-]
  • turtleeatingalderman
  • 19 Points
  • 17:00:10, 19 June

I don't hate them, I just just think they're all dirty thieves and hate their no-good, disgraceful, disgusting, awful culture! /s

  • [-]
  • Manannin
  • 9 Points
  • 17:56:45, 19 June

Yep. I bet most of them have not even met any Roma people, either, they just overheard a story in a pub once and formulated the hate from that.

I'm pretty sure there was a show once on channel 4 (some years ago) that might also have helped spark some of the Roma hatred, too. No idea what it was for the life of me, though, it just portrayed them in a very negative light.

  • [-]
  • andynater890
  • 4 Points
  • 18:56:07, 19 June

My dad works in a custody suite and he doesn't quite grasp that the reason he sees so many roma committing crimes is because his job is processing criminals.

  • [-]
  • barsoap
  • 1 Points
  • 20:13:43, 19 June

> I bet most of them have not even met any Roma people, either

Most have, but didn't notice. Roma don't stick out when they don't want to.

  • [-]
  • nrutas
  • 5 Points
  • 18:50:55, 19 June

The typical racism I see on sites like reddit is usually something fairly tame like "all niggers are stupid huehuehue" but when it comes to Romani and gypsies I see the most vile shit like people sometimes literally calling for genocide because that's totally never happened to them before. You would think it was the 1930's Germany

  • [-]
  • pepperouchau
  • 8 Points
  • 17:22:48, 19 June

Adam Jones of the Baltimore Orioles actually did get a banana thrown at him last year!

  • [-]
  • chuckjustice
  • 4 Points
  • 18:35:38, 19 June

What the fuck.

  • [-]
  • phullonrapist
  • 2 Points
  • 19:49:17, 19 June

The thrower claims it was not intentional. He just grabbed the first thing he saw and it just happened to land near a black player. Some what believable I guess. He could have just not come forward. If his original intent was to be racist why come forward?

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_23844386/giants-apologize-orioles-adam-jones-banana-thrown

  • [-]
  • East_Threadly
  • 12 Points
  • 16:18:14, 19 June

Man, people sure do hate gypsies. Is it possible I'm on the wrong side of this one?

  • [-]
  • zxcv1992
  • 18 Points
  • 16:24:51, 19 June

I think it's due to the frustration of seeing the gangs robbing or scamming people. Or the organised begging gangs.

It pisses me off too but I know that the actions of a few assholes don't represent a whole ethnic group.

Edit: also the lack of action by police and government annoys people even more.

  • [-]
  • noisette915
  • 3 Points
  • 18:45:46, 19 June

It's not any different than hating black people 'because they're the ones committing the most crimes.'

The only really unpleasant experience I've had visiting Europe was part of a gypsy scam. They were running around near the Louvre with a clipboard taking donations for some alleged school-related thing. They get you to put your name and email on the clipboard (presumably just to to distract you) and then try and get some money from you. I pretty much realized the whole story was shit early on but as I told my friend, sometimes a few bucks is the right price to just make someone go away. But as soon as my wallet was opened, as fast as you could blink, a chunk of my cash was snatched and those two cunts were half a block away and moving fast. (side note, fuck European ATMs that dispense bills in the highest possible denomination. So when you take out a large amount, like a couple hundred euros, to avoid paying lots of fees with small withdrawals, you get 100s and 50s, which greatly increased the amount stolen since they were all big bills)

The moral of the story is that I get it. Shit like that makes my blood boil to this day when I think about. My most satisfying revenge fantasies involve the two of them getting annihilated by a typical Paris driver as they fled across the busy street. But just like I don't generalize every negative interaction I've ever had with someone of a different race, this hasn't made me a gypsy hating lunatic.

  • [-]
  • barsoap
  • 1 Points
  • 20:16:34, 19 June

> side note, fuck European ATMs that dispense bills in the highest possible denomination

If you don't choose one of the predefined amounts but enter one yourself you should be able to choose what bills you get, to some degree. If not, complain with the bank, it's not like that's more than a software upgrade.

  • [-]
  • Amric
  • 3 Points
  • 16:56:54, 19 June

Huh. I missed the "atheism" part.

  • [-]
  • imakuram
  • 3 Points
  • 16:59:12, 19 June

Enh. Yeah I guess it was more an assumption on my part that the people attacking Islam were atheists. My bad.

  • [-]
  • Amric
  • 11 Points
  • 17:00:07, 19 June

Oh great. I'm only one square away from getting a SRD bingo.

  • [-]
  • imakuram
  • 6 Points
  • 17:02:28, 19 June

Dude. Don't piss in the popcorn.

  • [-]
  • superslab
  • 3 Points
  • 18:38:31, 19 June

>they are way too much racism around and it's getting worse in economical difficult time but the overwhelming majority don't think it's alright to compare black people to monkey.

That's an interesting notion. Does racism get worse during times of poor economic performance? I would think there would already have to be existing tension or prejudice. For instance, there's an awfully big gap between, "it's hard to find a job," and, "the Plutonians are taking all the jobs."

  • [-]
  • MrZakalwe
  • 2 Points
  • 18:46:43, 19 June

It certainly does- times of hardship seem to cause flares of nationalism since we've had nationalism.

Nobody else noticed things are a lot more tribal online than they were 5 years ago?

  • [-]
  • Sandor_at_the_Zoo
  • 2 Points
  • 20:04:26, 19 June

I thought I saw a paper that concluded that recently, but now I can't seem to find it. Intuitively I would think so. There's never seemed to be a shortage of preexisting prejudices for economic problems to exacerbate.

  • [-]
  • intortus
  • 2 Points
  • 19:13:24, 19 June

Stop. Think. Bigotry.

  • [-]
  • PrettyBoyBitch
  • 0 Points
  • 20:12:13, 19 June

LE SRS ADMIN SHILL CONFIRMEMEREDED!!!!

if u dont hate minorities you're some tumblr sjw srs man hating misandrist shill who is a liberal race-mixing hippie libtard.

literally killing white ppl

also, why do u get a motorcycle wtf. i want a motorcycle

  • [-]
  • Ask_If_I_Care
  • 2 Points
  • 19:16:04, 19 June

I read that title in the voice of James Earl Jones.

  • [-]
  • redditbots
  • 1 Points
  • 16:04:10, 19 June

SnapShot

(mirror | open source | create your own snapshots)

  • [-]
  • FlappyBored
  • -5 Points
  • 17:10:27, 19 June

I like how /u/smartredditor blame Europeans for being racist yet subs like /r/worldnews are literally full of Americans constantly talking about how Europe is overrun with immigrants and muslims and why the reason the US has a high gun crime rate is because 'the demographics in Europe are not the same, they don't have many black people'

Take a look at any /r/videos submission involving black people, yeah its really the Europeans who are racist on Reddit, that shit would never fly on an American only Reddit. /s

I don't think I can count the amount of times I've argued with Americans on Reddit about how the UK is not overrun with muslims or Sharia law before they start posting Daily Mail articles in support of their claims.

  • [-]
  • ucstruct
  • 4 Points
  • 17:32:55, 19 June

> subs like /r/worldnews[2] are literally full of Americans constantly talking about how Europe is overrun with immigrants and muslims

You make it sound like worldnews is full of only Americans saying this and not self-identified Europeans as well. Its a magnet for racists all across the world.

  • [-]
  • FlappyBored
  • -6 Points
  • 17:35:51, 19 June

Mainly its Americans because every time I've contested them on it they start talking about how the muslims are ruining Europe and how we need guns and other shit. A lot of the time the comments have Europeans trying to clear the air saying that no we are not overrun with islamists. Ive given up going there now though.

According to this sub there are no racist Americans at all.

  • [-]
  • Oberyn_Martells_Eyes
  • 5 Points
  • 18:39:33, 19 June

>According to this sub there are no racist Americans at all.

Oh really?

  • [-]
  • FlappyBored
  • -2 Points
  • 18:46:47, 19 June

Yes pretty much, apparently all racism on reddit is just from Europeans.

  • [-]
  • Oberyn_Martells_Eyes
  • 2 Points
  • 19:04:55, 19 June

SRD isn't denying that a lot of Americans are racist on Reddit. Search in SRD's links for the word that starts with an N and ends in an ER. You'll see lots of hatred there.

  • [-]
  • ucstruct
  • 2 Points
  • 19:08:25, 19 June

I would love to see that, because it is pretty clear that a lot of Americans are racist.