Is "dick" a gendered slur? /r/creepypms debates with walls of text and moderation drama. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
86 ups - 31 downs = 55 votes
162 comments submitted at 18:42:00 on Jun 7, 2014 by Somenakedguy
Is "dick" a gendered slur? /r/creepypms debates with walls of text and moderation drama. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
86 ups - 31 downs = 55 votes
162 comments submitted at 18:42:00 on Jun 7, 2014 by Somenakedguy
I knew you probably had an alt in there.
Would it bother you to know that I manage a couple dozen people, and a few billion in infrastructure?
For the federal government?
That many of you who hate what I stand for are funding my happiness and well paying job with your tax dollars?
When I stop being called a mangina, a white knight, a c word, or a pussy, when redditors who use these words or those who oppose us grow up, I'll stop using it.
If someone told your friend to shut the fuck up, wouldn't you stick up for them and say something? Is hearing the word dick really offensive to the fee fees when it's perfectly normal to see the c word and women treated like garbage on reddit?
This place is a bizarro world sometimes. Up is down, racism about whites is the biggest problem, and white college aged men are the most oppressed class. Racism is the scientific "race realism". I don't hide my dislike for MRAs, nor do I have to coddle them in the subreddit I'm top mod in.
Do you know what zero tolerance means? I'm pretty sure almost nobody would have given a fuck unless there was written zero tolerance about gendered slurs, especially in /r/creepypms whose average user is far from the whole website average user.
Dick is not a slur though, dude is a hundred percent correct. It doesn't carry the same weight as cunt or pussy or anything. Let's not pretend men need to worry about being oppressed...
Edit: this is odd because this comment started out with probably five or six upvotes and then suddenly plunged into the negatives. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some brigading going on in this thread.
Cunt is used differently in different parts of the world. In australia they call their friends cunt. In the uk, it just means the same as dick.
Would "asshole" be a better way that's gender-neutral?
Yes, but either dick and cunt are both wrong, or they're both ok. I'd say both are ok.
Nope. Offensive to those with colostomy bags.
English speakers in Europe also use cunt as a general catch all word
Sort of how fuck is used too to emphasise a feeling.
Uhh, I know it's not the same in social context, but how technically speaking how is it not a slur?
Because a slur is a word that's used to describe and demean a particular group of people, be it a racial group or gender or sexual orientation. Calling someone a dick is an insult, it has never been used to describe men as a group, only individuals. I am a straight white man, and I don't think there's a single word that someone could say to me where I would feel persecuted or oppressed. That's because my race, gender, and sexual orientation have not been singled out and oppressed in recent history and are not currently oppressed.
That's not bragging, it says nothing about me. I'm unemployed and lazy and probably don't have that much to offer the world. But no one can say a word to me that truly offends me and brings up some kind of historical oppression. Women have that, other races have that, gay people have that. White straight men, not really. Dick is certainly not a gendered slur in the same way that a word like bitch is.
But going by that logic then how is "cunt" or "pussy" gendered and slurs? People call men "cunt" and "pussy", it's not just used against women or any particular minority group like "fag" or "nigger" would be. The reason "cunt" or "pussy" is offensive is because they are insults but they are also used to describe female reproductive organs, so putting the two connotations together you connect women with weakness ("pussy") or being bad ("cunt"), and the same thing works with "dick" and men being bad too, the only reason we don't think it's as offensive is because calling someone a dick isn't as strong as calling someone a cunt, but in principle they are offensive for the same reasons. Not sure what your race or gender or other identities have to do with anything either, the great thing about anonymous internet forums is that none of those things matter in a debate, but if it means anything I'm just like you but not white.
That's a fair point. I don't think it's the same because calling someone a dick just means that they're being a jerk or an asshole. Cunt is usually used toward women and it's essentially equivalent to calling them bitchy. Calling someone a pussy means they're weak-willed or lack courage. Those two words have a connection with how women are perceived, in my assessment.
Dick is simply not on the same level and not as offensive. I don't think there's any way it can be classified as a slur, but then again it's a judgment call. I generally haven't heard cunt and pussy referred to as slurs, but I can see the argument for why they could be. Dick, I can't see the argument.
But "calling someone a dick just means that they're being a jerk or an asshole" doesn't have a connection with how men are perceived? You could say calling a jerk or an asshole a "dick" would imply men are jerks or assholes, and technically it would be, we just don't care about it as much as we do about calling people "cunt" or "pussy". And "cunt" isn't usually used against women, and certainly not "pussy" which most of the time is said to a guy. Both insults work the same way, we just don't think one is as serious for arbitrary reasons.
It's not arbitrary though because men have had the historical upper hand. It was women who were relegated to the household, told to cover up, put in the subservient position, etc., which is why there are now efforts to inform people why words like bitch, pussy, and cunt are counterproductive to attaining equality. Dick isn't offensive to anyone because there isn't the same history and there isn't the same implication. Come on now, you know this is true. It's a big fuss being made over nothing.
"If we can't say pussy, you can't say dick?" Is this what we have degenerated into on this website? Do people just want to be able to say pussy and cunt, or is there a person out there who will tell me that they genuinely are hurt and offended as a male human being when someone uses the word "dick" to mean "jerk?" Is this real life, right now?
It is arbitrary if the entire argument for forbidding it is based on equality.
The historical context would only affect how severely something would be considered but it doesn't affect the underlying principles of how it's offensive, and that's how it works, it's why people say "dick" more sparingly than "cunt". It's like how if a person who hates white people but stands equality won't be as bad as someone who hates black people, but that first person is still a hypocrite and has no real grasp on equality.
> or is there a person out there who will tell me that they genuinely are hurt and offended as a male human being when someone uses the word "dick" to mean "jerk?"
No of course not, we're instead pointing out the hypocrisy in finding one offensive and somehow thinking the other is completely different.
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Is oppression now a part of the definition of "slur?"
Sure.
Slur = bad word + power.
Definition= convenient fabrication - actual dictionary definition.
The dictionary definition of a slur is basically just an insult, but everyone knows that it's colloquially used to describe a word that refers to certain groups negatively. In this case, anyone claiming that any insult is a slur is the one being willfully ignorant.
Refers to certain groups negatively is colloquially about right. Bad word+ power just isn't. A casual glance at this list of slurs, (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listofethnic_slurs sorry mobile link), will dispel power as a necessary component. Anyone adding power to that definition is just conveniently justifying a narrowed definition.
I would say it's a word used to negatively describe a group that has been historically marginalized or oppressed. I think that's what they meant by the "power" aspect; it requires some type of oppressed status.
Yeah I agree >90% of that list is from up looking down. Though there are a few exceptions. And I don't know how significant this is, but most of those slurs can be used against males, but when it comes to gendered slurs, suddenly blacks, whites, Asians, natives, Jews and gentiles alike, suddenly assume the power role and become immune from gender slurs.
Edit: This image does a better job then my words
I'll never understand pushing so hard against racism and sexism while simultaneously intentionally acting shitty toward another race or sex. Why not just stop being shitty to everyone? What do you have to lose?
> Would it bother you to know that I manage a couple dozen people, and a few billion in infrastructure... For the federal government?
Yes. No wonder the government is run so poorly.
Nose Fetish is clearly the only educated one in half the discussions he or she engages in, makes well-thought out posts that are well written, but because he or she supports something that every academic supports, women's rights, he or she is inept?
Wow, can you make ANYONE sound that good? That's a superpower. Do hitler next plz
You're projecting.
I'm merely referring to how he has handled his mod status. His views on feminism is unrelated to him deleting dissenting comments because they make him look bad and the immaturity he portrays through his comments.
Okay, so modding reddit is comparable to managing millions?
He also says he manages a couple dozen people... I feel bad for those people. Modding a community isn't so dissimilar from managing people.
You really feel bad for them?, or you feel good saying you feel bad for them cause you think it might make someone who makes you feel bad feel bad?
I think you should be more honest too, you clearly got your dislike from the feminist POV he or she takes, given that you never post in the subs he or she moderates, and seem to argue against feminism a lot.
You're coming off like a petty liar!
I've had shitty bosses, it's easy to empathize.
No, I read his comments and because of his attitude, I don't like him. I know feminist that I like and get along with but I don't think I could with this person.
I don't really care what you think, buddy.
Easy to empathize with people you've never interacted with, or have any concrete knowledge of their working environment whatsoever? That's kinda a weird thing to say, but since this whole story about nosefetish being an evil boss takes place in your head i guess it makes sense you empathize with the characters you've invented. It's not about liking feminists, it's about liking feminism. Are you a feminist?
I'm not a feminist. Is that a problem to you?
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> Easy to empathize with people you've never interacted with
I should certainly hope so. Empathy is, or ought to be, a pretty basic social skill.
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I have nothing against you dude, but half of the things you say sound like they could be copypasta.
I'm nowhere near as good as andrewsky, or however you put it. That guy makes it a art.
What's up NF? Been a while. Welcome to the posted-to-SRD club! :P
>I knew you probably had an alt in there.
Stopped reading here. I have one alternate reddit account that I use to post on runescape subreddits.
I treat others how I expect to be treated. I don't belittle people based on race/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity/etcetc and I expect the same in return. This is a basic requirement for being a decent human being that you're not even able to meet.
I wonder if you went on to call me a redpiller in that reply. That'd really be something.
Is runescape something to be ashamed about now?
Kinda, but I assume the runescape alt shares the name of his account.
Haha, I don't think so. I just think it's more organized to use a separate account solely for my runescape stuff.
I've considered going back to Runescape with the whole "classic" thing they're doing, but I would be ashamed of it.
Maybe it makes you vulnerable to curses if the people in the Runescape forums know your main SN.
of course it is
I'm not belittling anyone. We have strict rules about body shaming. If a penis picture is in a message we don't allow body shaming. If a vagina, though rare, shows up we don't allow body shaming in it.
I called someone who was being rude a dick. Like calling someone a dick instantly means I belittle all men, or anyone with a dick.
Redpillers and others seem to come up with the stupidest of arguments why I should institute a policy of not using the word dick, and that I'm a huge hypocrite because of it while saying the worst shit about women I've ever read. It's just pointless trolling that allows me to easily get rid of them, with little harm done. Detractors eliminated. Efficient if you ask me.
While I don't personally agree with most of the rules of the sub, I understand and can respect the direction you try and take creepypms towards as a safeplace. In this case though it comes across as alienating for male users trying to participate in the sub. The "power" argument isn't one that most people take well when it comes to double-standards and I don't know how much support you're gonna see for enforcing rules based on that.
Reddit tries to jerk off to double standards to prove a point so hard it blew advice animals off the defaults. CreepyPMs is a safe space, for everyone. Seeing a mod who was rude to call a fellow a dick, isn't exactly making a subreddit alienating for most male users. Most of our male commenters and posters aren't dicks, we want our community dick free.
Except, you know, all the dick pics.
I just hope that the people who seem to take great offense to my usage of the word dick on a troll, use that same passion in places where reddit is alienating to women. As well, that they are as empathetic to my dislike for being called other demeaning, emasculating names, that would alienate a man just for being a man. Even if I have certain leanings or not.
I'm not calling you, or decent users dicks. I'm not grotesquely describing a veiny throbbing penis that the troll resembled. Not looking for support, even with other mods they are free to remove dick if they are offended by it.
You're not a feminist.
Why's that?
The idea that using a gender slur such as "cunt" is less acceptable than using a gender slur such as "dick", because one is for women and one is for men. It's a double standard and a real feminist would at least own up and admit they have an unfair double standard and that it isn't right that they are doing it.
I don't think use of either word is a big deal, but I take issue with someone identifying as something and then not even trying to embody the ideals.
It is not a double standard, men and women are different, not a binary that are perfectly opposed and should be matched at every point. Dick is less offensive than cunt for the same reasons that nigger is more offensive than cracker. It's sort of a common feminist critique, and actually in line with the school of thought.
Both are generalizations and should be stamped out wherever they appear. Nigger and cracker are both racist terms and I'd take exception to being called either, or seeing someone else call someone another one of those names.
The idea that racial/sexist terms can "Not be as offensive" because one side is more "privileged" than the other is privilege in of itself.
It may be a common critique, but I don't believe it is based in logic at all. Especially when we try to apply it to the real world in terms of practical use.
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The thing is, most of the people taking offense aren't taking offense at the use of the word dick. They are taking offense at the hypocrisy involved in feeling free to use the word dick while cracking down like the wrath of god on the equivalent use of a female gendered slur.
That's the thing that bothers people. Not that you are making fun of dudes; but that you seem to see absolutely no problem with making fun of or insulting guys while establishing very strict rules about equivalent actions toward women.
Personally, I understand why you are doing it. I don't like it, and I disagree with that approach, but I do get what you are trying to accomplish. You'd have a much better time if you just admitted that you are biased toward women and people looking for a different experience should try a different subreddit. Also, if you were less of a dick.
>cracking down like the wrath of god on the equivalent use of a female gendered slur
Equivalent? Are you for real? Nigger and cracker, tranny and cissy, faggot and whatever-you-call-straight-people; ignore context, and they're all equivalent.
They're clearly not, though.
Let's make this very clear. Someone saying "fuck you bitch" to a girl who pissed him off is doing the same thing as someone saying "fuck you dick" to a guy who pissed her off. That's the equivalence I'm talking about.
honestly creepypms isn't a safe place for anything, all of the mods are femnazi and have no idea what the definition of creepy/harassment is.
the mods there give "feminists" a very bad name, and are generally the reason a lot of people dislike feminists.
probably the most incompetent mods on reddit.
pretty much all man hating and pretentious, the double standards are comical.
>are generally the reason a lot of people dislike feminists.
people dislike feminists because of a group of internet moderators?
because they perpetuate the stereotype, not these mods in specific but they just give people fuel for the fire.
people like this have no place in feminism.
one of these retards banned my girlfriend from the subreddit for being "rude" the comment my girlfriend posted was in no way rude or angry, was literally asking a question.
the mod Jollysaur on there is the worst one about it, he/she is completely irrational, when i was reading her replies i just kept getting this picture of a monkey flinging poo while not understanding anything being said.
It really requires a staggering lack of self-awareness to blame feminists for anti-feminism existing while using anti-feminist terminology coined by Rush Limbaugh.
are you trying to imply these mods are not extreme feminists that give the rest of them a bad name? i have no problem with feminists, i have a problem with ones like this.
it also takes an extreme lack of self-awareness to coin cunt as a gender based slur and act like it's extreme, while also calling people dicks.
standard feminist double standards I've seen a million times, don't want to be called a femnazi? don't act like one.
Not minding that people call each other dicks = extremism that gives feminism a bad name.
OK, dude. If you really think that you obviously had a problem with feminism to begin with.
the point is, she bans people/calls them creeps/dicks anytime they post something she doesn't agree with, points out gender slurs such as cunt and then acts like it's ok to use them against men.
once again, zero problems with feminism and a lot of problems with this type of feminist.
and the best part? when someone posts a link that's not even slightly creepy, just a standard dating site msg and someone asks a simple question about how said convo is creepy, all of these idiot mods jump on it and call it victim blaming.
100% retarded.
They're not okay with using the word cunt, but are fine with the use of the word dick. Do you not see how that's a double standard?
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> Redpillers and others seem to come up with the stupidest of arguments why I should institute a policy of not using the word dick
What? It's a matter of consistency, that's it. A matter of pointing out a double standard. Disagreeing with you doesn't make anyone a terper or a troll or what have you.
[deleted]
No need to be rude.
Look man, I'm cool with people saying cunt or dick, but going by your argument then how is calling someone a cunt/pussy instantly means I belittle all women, or anyone with a "cunt/pussy".
>I called someone who was being rude a cunt. Like calling someone a cunt instantly means I belittle all women, or anyone with a cunt.
Calling a woman a cunt is not belittling, degrading or dehumanizing all women. Only that one woman in particular.
Get off your high horse, and just admit that the only reason you banned words like cunt, bitch and the like, and not dick or neckbeard, is because the former personally offend you, while the latter do not.
If you want your rules on slurs and insults to be viewed more favorably, you're going to have to be more consistent and fair, and less biased. Either allow people to use bitch and cunt, or ban dick as well (like /r/askwomen did. Some might see their moderation as heavy handed, but at least their policy on slurs is applied evenly and fairly.)
And another thing: Cunt can be used against any member of any gender. Dick is invariably used against men. How is dick not also a gendered insult to you?
So as long as other people use gendered slurs, you're going to keep using them?
Or it's ok to use them as long as you're really mad?
If a woman tells my friend to "shut the fuck up", am I allowed to call her a cunt? Is hearing the word cunt really offensive to the "fee fees"? (lol, btw. I didn't think I could ever see them referred to as anything more alien than Females)
How is that not the most childish reaction you can possibly have?
In addition, you come in here bragging about how large you RL pension-funded penis is, trying to feel superior. Newsflash: That isn't what actual, emotionally secure adults do.
You'd need to do a lot to convince me that you're not an angry teenager, and that the "billion[s]" in infrastructure you control aren't all in Sim City.
Dude... I consider myself a feminist, and I don't like people saying mean words either. But god damn, this is ridiculous.
"Zero tolerance"
Unless it's a mod, right? Fuck CreepyPMs. I got banned once because I pointed out that they were actually shaming someone who appeared to be just mentally ill. There was no offence, no sexual innuendo, no threats, just what looked like rambling word salad. But I was defending the creep, so I got banned. Zero tolerance, apparently.
Nosefetish, I frequent the sub, I love the moderation style, but you can't say "no gendered slurs, including 'pussy'" and then tell someone they're a dick.
It's exactly the same as calling someone a pussy but now you're using male genitalia instead of female genitalia.
I thought the mods of that place held a higher standard. The frankly draconian levels of moderation were entertaining and often necessary, but in this case, just admit you are wrong, remove the slur, and we can move on.
Otherwise you're sending the message that low level gendered slurs are perfectly fine in /r/creepypms and we're absolutely fine insulting people.
> Would it bother you to know that I manage a couple dozen people, and a few billion in infrastructure?
I would be shocked to learn that you live off taxpayer dollars and do not engage in productive work to support yourself.
> Would it bother you to know that I manage a couple dozen people, and a few billion in infrastructure?
There are idiots in management positions all over the world. Why should it bother anyone that one of them happens to be on reddit?
Did you order the Code Red!?
and for the third time in this thread...
If I was a guy, I would think dick should be on the same level as cunt. Why shouldn't it be? You're being called a "white knight" because you're acting like one.
I might be off topic, but do you seriously have a fetish for noses somehow?
Well paying federal government job... Sure, that unicorn exists.
No you dont.
Read this in Obama's voice.
I don't think you know how taxes work. The Federal Reserve Bank pays your salary. The amount people are taxed wouldn't change significantly if that job didn't exist.
EDIT: Also, big important federal employee spends all his time on reddit.
Good enough for government work.
Wow you can really feel the insecurity behind that rant.
[I have been waiting so long to use this] (http://i.imgur.com/gtRfBNs.gif)