PSA: Server owners aren’t your enemy (self.Minecraft)

{Minecraft}

149 ups - 88 downs = 61 votes

Greedy people are our enemy.

There are greedy snake oil salesmen everywhere. There are people who rip off content in app stores, who trick website visitors into clicking ads.

Calling every server owner who tries to make money to cover their costs (hosting, development, time investment) a pay2win schemer is not only wrong, it’s depressing.

Wherever there is money, there will be bad apples.

Mojang wants to put an end to money making. It’s a large broad stroke which will definitely solve their issues.

But have you seen Google or Apple removing paid apps from their app stores? Have you seen advertisers close down because sometimes someone tries to push through an ad with sound or popups?

Money fuels the internet and money is a sign of a healthy ecosystem.

Just because there are people who want to suck everyone dry doesn’t mean majority of server owners are evil.

Whatever Mojang decides to do, please remember that not every server owner is a scam artist.


^(Edit: The number of downvotes on this post makes me think some people believe server owners are the enemy. Why? Can you explain in the comments below instead of hitting that down arrow?)

59 comments submitted at 11:52:17 on Jun 6, 2014 by ridddle

  • [-]
  • dakamojo
  • 9 Points
  • 16:01:29, 6 June

>Mojang wants to put an end to money making. It’s a large broad stroke which will definitely solve their issues. But have you seen Google or Apple removing paid apps from their app stores?

Mojang does not want to put an end to making money. It's pretty much the focus of every for-profit company to make money. If you mean that they want to put an end to other people making money by violating their EULA and using their IP, then that would be a more correct statement.

Apple and Google both take 30% of all revenue of apps sold in their app stores using their IP. Are you suggesting that Mojang should take 30% of all revenue collected by servers to purchase in game items?

In my history of playing MC, I have probably played on 20 for-profit servers and donated $500, and none of them violated the EULA. One server I played on routinely collected 300% of their monthly operating costs without violating the EULA.

  • [-]
  • Galaxy_2Alex
  • 13 Points
  • 13:12:22, 6 June

They don't want to put an end on the money making. Donations are still allowed, you are just not allowed to sell game features like diamond swords with it.

  • [-]
  • ridddle
  • 3 Points
  • 13:24:39, 6 June

I know perfectly well what EULA says and I’m waiting for the updated version.

My post is about vocal majority of /r/Minecraft saying that every server which sells content (even the custom content made independently or playful flair) is pay2win and therefore evil.

  • [-]
  • ginhginja
  • 5 Points
  • 15:11:31, 6 June

The reason Mojang want it be clear or change MIGHT be this. It's the the Apple in-app store drama when apps scam tons of people through in-app purchases; even a app cost $1000 and does nothing. What happened was that parents or people who's credit card was screwed complaint to apple and not the app. The media also covered apple and asked them question which in term made Apple to change their stuff. Apple have and got tons of law suits because of that but since they are gaints their legal team can handle it.

Mojang can't handle large lawsuits because of server scamming, as at the end of the day it is the name of "minecraft" that is associated with all this. They don't want angry user who are frustrated with these servers and then blame minrcaft for their misfortune. They don't want the actions of others responsible for an individual to resent the existence of the GAME minecraft.
Also as mentioned by Jeb on other thread

>Handing out "rewards" for "donations" may count as tax evasion, and may be illegal depending on where you live.

The legal department will first force mojang to do something and stop this from happening rather than going after thousands of servers. Or maybe they have already asked mojang about this, who knows.

They don't want to be in this unnecessary situation which is caused by someone else.

And all above is what I think MIGHT be part of the reason.

  • [-]
  • Oxyfire
  • 4 Points
  • 15:13:23, 6 June

I'm not very active in r/minecraft, but I'd like to believe the sentiment (or at least my stance/reaction) would be that a lot of people find the incentivized donations in general as a little sleazy or tacky, and can often be a slippery slope to uglier things.

I recall a point in time when modding minecraft was starting to get big, and there was a lot of people linking their mods with some click-through thing that got them revenue. It was kinda sleazy and I want to say the click-through website was giving some people viruses/malware.

There was backlash against the clickthrough stuff, but there was also a tidal wave of people arguing that mod-makers should be able to make money off mods and the such because of their hard work, etc etc.

I guess I'm drawing parallels between the mod stuff and what's happening now with servers. In general I think making money of someone else's work is tacky - particularly in the case of games.

I feel like I grew up with games where people made mods and hosted servers because they wanted to - they didn't expect to make money off it, or maybe even break even. Honestly I don't have that much beef with people wanting to break even, or people offering non-gameplay bonuses like coloured name tags and the such, but again, it's sort of tacky altogether and wish it was something we could do without.

  • [-]
  • Galaxy_2Alex
  • 1 Points
  • 13:34:43, 6 June

> Mojang wants to put an end to money making. It’s a large broad stroke which will definitely solve their issues.

That is what you said and that is not true. If I like a server and I want to keep it alive, I donate for it, whether I get something for it or not. But many people are, at the current state, "donating" because they want the advantages from it (which is buying, not donating). Mojang allows Donations, but not purchases (or at least that is what it looks like at the moment).

I know that there are servers which don't have Pay2Win, but keep in mind that it's also not easy to differentiate that.

But, as I said previously in other posts, we'll need to wait for the updated EULA to see if this gets resolved or not.

  • [-]
  • kensai111
  • 1 Points
  • 17:07:37, 6 June

The thing is it will put out legitimate server networks - mainly every major network you can think of out of business. You CANNOT maintain a large network based on donations alone as proven already. On top of that taking a donation implies you are a 501(c)3 and I highly doubt the IRS would grant that status to a Minecraft server. Their solution is terrible.

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:23:26, 6 June

Nobody goes on a minecraft server and pays for a minecraft diamond sword. Just for example if I went on ServerCraft and they said you could buy a diamond sword for $1. I wouldn't be buying it because i wanted a minecraft diamond sword, i am buying it because I want that part of the servercraft experience. The owners of the server created the servercraft experience not Mojang.

  • [-]
  • silverfishslicer
  • 1 Points
  • 16:55:51, 6 June

Donations are notenough for a server to run off, pmc proved that. All major servers will shut down if this goes through in it's current form.

  • [-]
  • Galaxy_2Alex
  • 1 Points
  • 17:04:02, 6 June

They might get smaller, but I'm sure that they will find sneaky ways to pass the new EULA and still do the old system.

But no, the servers will not shut down.

  • [-]
  • silverfishslicer
  • 1 Points
  • 17:08:50, 6 June

Are you out of your mind? rurikar22 (rob, owner of PMC) said that he could not sustain pmc on donations alone. People are too selfish to donate or see a server disapear, people simply wont care enough to reach into their wallet. Maybe the servers will stay around, but the slots will be only as high as donations, and I think this will spiral downward, not upward.

  • [-]
  • jfb1337
  • 3 Points
  • 15:46:35, 6 June

>But have you seen Google or Apple removing paid apps from their app stores? Have you seen advertisers close down because sometimes someone tries to push through an ad with sound or popups?

Google and apple also make money from paid apps as developers pay fees to have their content in the app stores.

  • [-]
  • zut50
  • 5 Points
  • 15:22:13, 6 June

If you aren't being exploitative then you've nothing to worry about. If you can't afford to rely on donations then simply charge a subscription.

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:20:20, 6 June

Great so now the 15,000 player servers will have at most 200 people on at a time. The people saying this won't be a problem have no idea at all how these big servers work.

  • [-]
  • Leftieswillrule
  • 2 Points
  • 16:11:10, 6 June

The problem comes from server owners selling access to certain parts of the game. It's as if you released an app that required you to pay to use the camera on your phone.

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:25:29, 6 June

This is not even close to being true. It would be like you downloaded a free app and they allowed you to use your camera as part of the app if you paid.

  • [-]
  • 29728085955
  • 1 Points
  • 16:43:46, 6 June

If you don't like paying for ranks... don't. And if everyone does this, guess what happens? The servers shut down, they go out of business.

  • [-]
  • glman99
  • 7 Points
  • 12:55:23, 6 June

Amen! We will no longer be able to support our server. We get fewer donations when we don't have tiny perks like coloured names and hats... People need to look a little deeper at the issue. I'm fine with doing away with selling OP diamond kits, but the new EULA prevents anything, even plugins. Minecraft should always be an open game, the moment it gets more closed off, it will lose popularity. If you don't like the donation structure of a server, simply don't play it...

  • [-]
  • Starsy_02
  • 6 Points
  • 14:03:57, 6 June

From what I heard, things like custom nicknames, coloured usernames, and the like are allowed. Just not something like "prot. 4 diamond chest piece"

  • [-]
  • nilllzz
  • 8 Points
  • 14:38:52, 6 June

Yep. As long as you don't sell part of Minecraft's assets or code, you are fine. You can sell whatever on your Minecraft server, you can open a virtual grocery store on there and deliver the products to your customers personally. Just don't sell a Diamond Sword and you are fine.

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:25:56, 6 June

This is not even close to being true.

  • [-]
  • nilllzz
  • 1 Points
  • 17:33:51, 6 June

Enlighten me.

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:36:02, 6 June

Selling anything in game is against the rules. You can have people pay to be allowed on the server but even selling a colored name is against the rules.

  • [-]
  • WayGroovy
  • 1 Points
  • 14:00:38, 6 June

Would you mind linking to this new EULA? All I find is the one last updated back in December.

https://account.mojang.com/documents/minecraft_eula

  • [-]
  • hyunrivet
  • 6 Points
  • 14:34:57, 6 June

Same EULA, just getting enforced now.

  • [-]
  • Southern_paw
  • -1 Points
  • 14:35:41, 6 June

Amen. There is definitely a deeper issue here that a lot of people and dare I say it, Mojang, are missing here.

This will hurt the wider community, I won't be hosting a server if it can't pay for itself and it pays for it's by monthly bill by donations/payments (call them what you want) which provide a player with some extras (a repair command, a hat command and a $1000 eco debt allowance).

I don't ever want to run a pay to win server, but there needs to be some leeway here, better yet, some god damn clear clarification instead of all the smoke and mirrors and rumours. I'm stressing the fuck out because I don't want to close my server down and make my players sad but at the same time I respect their EULA and I will have to close it down if it can't pay for itself.

Edit: Instead of downvoting me based on your opinion, how about you go ahead and explain why I am mistaken. You might even contribute something to the discussion!

  • [-]
  • MrsRatt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:24:27, 6 June

Providing a player with something like a repair command for a donation is selling a feature that's in the game. It's selling part of minecraft, and that's exactly what they're going to stop. It's also making the game p2w, which you say you're against. "Oh, my weapon needs repairing? I'll just pay instead of working for it" is pretty cut and dry p2w.

On a side note: Your edit is incredibly rude. If you're truly looking for a conversation, being polite is a much better way to go about it.

  • [-]
  • neonerz
  • 0 Points
  • 16:09:51, 6 June

I find it hard to believe Mojang cares that you are giving your players a colored name, or a "hat" for donating.

The issue comes down to servers that give people an edge because they paid real money. For example, I came across a server the other day that for the low low price of $250, among other things, you get a kit command that includes things like a sharpness 5 diamond sword and OP armor. You don't think that's a bit crazy?

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:27:01, 6 June

Who cares? You just don't go on that server. This would be like steam removing all pay 2 win games. It's a business decision to make your server like that.

  • [-]
  • StarHorder
  • 3 Points
  • 13:32:31, 6 June

Abusive owners are our enemy.

  • [-]
  • skeddles
  • 4 Points
  • 15:25:26, 6 June

Then don't go on those servers. If no one goes on, they will die. Why do we need to force them to be something they're not.

  • [-]
  • Zipperumpazoo
  • 1 Points
  • 16:55:01, 6 June

Most likely due to easily manipulable people like children, you can't really tech them to not go on those servers anymore.
At the end of the day, when their 300$ VIP Minecraft membership is no longer valid, their parents' anger goes toward Mojang and not to the guilty server owner. I understand why this is becoming a serious problem for them since it shatters their reputation.

  • [-]
  • skeddles
  • 1 Points
  • 17:03:20, 6 June

We shouldn't base the whole world around angry parents of spoiled children

  • [-]
  • Meringues
  • 1 Points
  • 17:01:23, 6 June

But kids GO on those servers, buy crap, parents get mad, the company's reputation gets damaged, so they have to do something about it. Easy.

  • [-]
  • skeddles
  • 1 Points
  • 17:02:46, 6 June

Then that's the parents fault for letting their kids have have unlimited access to their money...

Integrity is more important than reputation.

  • [-]
  • StarHorder
  • 1 Points
  • 17:01:25, 6 June

I go on those servers because I AM the owner.

and I don't own any servers

  • [-]
  • skeddles
  • 1 Points
  • 17:09:35, 6 June

I don't understand

  • [-]
  • StarHorder
  • 1 Points
  • 17:12:05, 6 June

ELI5: I do not go on servers with abusive admins

  • [-]
  • skeddles
  • 1 Points
  • 17:12:49, 6 June

Good, then you shouldn't care about those servers existing

  • [-]
  • billyK_
  • 2 Points
  • 14:43:51, 6 June

THANK YOU! As I keep saying in almost all my posts, I'm a server owner who doesn't exploit the community. No donation perks, just rank up when we as a community feel like we can trust you. The people who do donate only do it to help keep the server up, and they understand they're not getting any special reward for doing so. I just hope Mojang realizes, like you said, that not every server owner is in it for the money. There are good people out there.

  • [-]
  • Tsurupettan
  • -3 Points
  • 11:57:31, 6 June

Don't be silly, server owners and developers should do it as a passion not a profession! At least thats what I can infer from the released chat logs from Erik

  • [-]
  • matejdro
  • 4 Points
  • 12:46:29, 6 June

Even if they do it completely out of passion, they still have costs to cover.

  • [-]
  • Mah_Young_Buck
  • 3 Points
  • 12:18:14, 6 June

You really think that people charge money because they don't want to get a job? Not because, y'know, it goes towards keeping the server alive? Now I do realize that there are plenty of people who just take all the money for themselves - But that's not all servers, and as OP said, keeping the EULA this way will take out ALL the big servers, including the honest ones.

  • [-]
  • jackjt8
  • -1 Points
  • 12:43:05, 6 June

Break even = Stable server

Make a profile = Growth

Simple maths

  • [-]
  • CesarDaPig
  • 3 Points
  • 14:58:19, 6 June

In the red- Cut back on features

No revenue- Closure of server

  • [-]
  • Wouto1997
  • 1 Points
  • 12:14:59, 6 June

Sadly that would probably mean that the quality of the plugins would decrease, as the more talented developers wouldn't be interrested in doing minecraft anymore when they get actually paid for work elsewhere.

  • [-]
  • Kuusou
  • -4 Points
  • 12:37:49, 6 June

They spend a hell of a lot of time and money to run good servers.

Asking them to do that without allowing them proper means to garner donations is nonsense.

That being said, Mojang can only control vanilla content. There is nothing they can do about mods or extra content. So this will not effect most servers.

Servers could start selling in game tokens through a mod, and there is nothing they could do about it.

All THAT being said, Mojang is only doing any of this because they want to see if they can get rid of a lot of servers and get people to move to their servers and pay them.

  • [-]
  • MattSeit
  • 2 Points
  • 15:12:55, 6 June

No, they aren't. realms isn't part of this. They MAY start cracking down on servers selling swords and such, however the idea that they want to shut down servers and such is ridiculous.

  • [-]
  • Jhwx
  • 0 Points
  • 14:39:15, 6 June

Thank you oh so much for this post. Seriously, some of this stuff is really screwing us over.. Again, I am perfectly okay with getting rid of selling in-game items, but as far as other perks go, I do not want to see those go.

  • [-]
  • WarriorkingNL
  • 1 Points
  • 15:14:37, 6 June

THIS is why I only play on Vanilla.

  • [-]
  • CzarSquid
  • 0 Points
  • 16:07:39, 6 June

My friend, you may be downvoted for your opinion but I'm in the same boat. The good news is this issue won't really effect us in the long run. Can't say the same about others.

  • [-]
  • poppymelt
  • 1 Points
  • 17:27:52, 6 June

He is downvoted because it adds nothing to discussion.

  • [-]
  • Jstepp1
  • 0 Points
  • 16:10:29, 6 June

This has gone on enough, why do people keep resposting and resposting about this, we don't need any more info, we've got it!

  • [-]
  • hansbrinker
  • -4 Points
  • 13:50:53, 6 June

ill repost this here: btw im a player not a server owner, I understand that mojang wants a slice of the server market, it is a large pie after all, however this will have some unforeseen consequences, one is that many of the mid range to smaller servers will die, which is sad because that is where a lot of innovation comes from. and the free play we have all enjoyed on many of the better servers will end as you will have to donate to gain access to these. it is no coincidence that this comes at a time when mojang is rolling out its own multi player server set up. They are making a a mistake, most of these mid to smaller server make very little money the cost of running a good server being what it is, and the cost of having an owner that is tied to that server 24 hours a day 365 days a year, keeping the thing up and running as well as managing game play is not really covered by the 'donations' of the few players that are willing to buy ranks etc. So mojang will kill all the little guys, and replace them with their cookie cutter one size fits all shit servers that are currently unused due to the fact that they are shit. some of the laziest marketing ever

  • [-]
  • Qubr
  • 8 Points
  • 14:29:15, 6 June

How is this harming the smaller servers? I really only see this as being a problem for the bigger servers that costs more to run.

I'v been part of a smaller/medium sized Minecraft community for a few years, and it has been running 100% of donations without rewards for years. Usually filling up in the beginning of each month, that's $150.00 people gladly donate just to keep the server and website up and running.

The bigger servers however need more money to stay up and therefor have been offering rewards for ''donating''.

And trying to involve Realms into this drama is just stupid, realms won't profit from this, Mojang made realms to cater to a specific demographic, and it will never be the same as the other servers being offered and they know that, they are not trying to get a bigger slice of the server market as you say. They are just filling a specific need, if its worth getting Realms or not however is a completely different discussion.

This is strictly about Mojang not wanting server owners to sell out parts of their game, something that is not allowed for pretty much any other game.

  • [-]
  • hansbrinker
  • 1 Points
  • 16:48:49, 6 June

thank you for your response however my opinion was not formulated based on a lack of knowledge of the Mojang party line.

  • [-]
  • CollidedMoon
  • -4 Points
  • 14:21:43, 6 June

I totally agree with you.

Some server owners make some big profit because of prenium classes.

But little servers use prenium classes and other perks for paying the server.

"Donations are still allowed" you downvoters would say but I think that there would be less people donating to get nothing than people paying for perks.

It means little servers will disappear when big ones will increase their donation profits. (People leaving little servers will go on big ones)

I think people have to make the difference between these two different server types.

Payed perks are needed for little servers.

  • [-]
  • dancats511
  • 1 Points
  • 17:13:53, 6 June

"Server owners aren't the enemy, greedy people are."

Umm, okay, aren't those two things the same thing now?

  • [-]
  • SAM_IS_THA_BEST
  • -2 Points
  • 15:12:50, 6 June

so true