This has been making the rounds. Just... holy shit. (washingtonpost.com)

WTF

6067 ups - 5047 downs = 1020 votes

1656 comments submitted at 03:39:51 on Jan 8, 2013 by outwrangle

  • [-]
  • pound30
  • 1703 Points
  • 03:42:25, 8 January

Not sure how you can accurately know the number of not reported. Seeing as how they are not reported.

  • [-]
  • Grays42
  • 744 Points
  • 05:38:58, 8 January

I just had an argument about this on Facebook. I actually dug into all of their sources. After doing research on all of the figures, this is my conclusion:

> I'm looking through the data collection, and while the Enliven project fully admits that data collection is "a challenge", the most appropriate thing they could do is subtext the infographic with a disclaimer. Basically, these numbers are just guesses stretched to their most biased outlier value, and the figure they are downplaying (false accusations) is from wildly biased sources.

>In particular, their source for the 2% of reported rapes being false accusations is sourced from an article by "The National Center for the Prosecution of Violence Against Women", which (while a laudable organization) is hardly an unbiased source on this particular figure...and 2% isn't even what they said! They said 2%-8%.

>The NDAA.org article cited a number of figures, some biased, some not. The number they seemed to have settled around was about 8%, including their most rigorously cited study. So...8% is a better estimate, not 2%, as the infographic assumes.

>Further, Enliven's assumption of the reporting rate comes from a report from the UK (because even the robust NDAA article doesn't have any figures for how many rapes are actually reported). The UK study includes the following line: "It is currently estimated that between 75 and 95 per cent of rape crimes are never reported to the police." This report DOES NOT CITE how or where it got the number, and this is the only time this figure shows up in a 175 page document. The reporting rate was entirely guessed at, because it's almost impossible to gather data on it. So the infographic authors picked a nice round "10%", a number they have NO justification for.

>CONCLUSION: The infographic stretches the numbers, to say the least. Yes, we should be concerned about violence against women and yes, the law should offer more protection from domestic violence. However, that argument needs to be made honestly, and this infographic is not honest. "2 out of 1000 rapes are false convictions" is an extremely duplicitous figure that (1) takes the most biased number in every category possible and ~~(2) the number would be 10 times higher if the 10% reporting rate were 100%~~. So, given even NDAA's most accurate data, and assuming all rapes get reported (which is the goal), ~~the actual number of false reports would be closer to 80 out of 1000, not 2 out of 1000.~~

> I will savagely attack bad numbers from the right, but I won't exempt bad numbers from my own side. I agree with the issue and I agree with the point, but I sorely dislike the dishonesty in the infographic and won't hesitate to call it out for being dishonest.

EDIT 1: Thanks for the months of reddit gold! Now I shall go figure out what it does! ....

EDIT 2: definitelynotaspy pointed out that there are better sources for unreported crimes that Enliven sourced, on a page I did not see. This is the page I was responding to, and I was specifically responding to the UK report they sourced for their 5%-25% citation.

EDIT 3: Erm, oops. ecafdas pointed out that I made a bad leap on scaling up the number of false accusations along with reported rapes to come up with an unreasonably high number of false accusations. Sorry about that; I withdraw my incorrectly scaled conclusion number. Thank you for pointing that out.

  • [-]
  • Officer_BattIetoad
  • 175 Points
  • 05:50:10, 8 January

Your comment is why I check the comments on controversial things like this. Thanks.

  • [-]
  • tejmin
  • 30 Points
  • 06:14:16, 8 January

This is the reddit of old that I miss.

  • [-]
  • PlasmaWhore
  • 15 Points
  • 06:23:01, 8 January

Of old? This isn't am old comment and there are comments like this in every thread.

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  • [-]
  • CLUSTERfoo
  • 11 Points
  • 06:25:15, 8 January

Ah, yes, the good old Reddit of 43 minutes ago...

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  • [-]
  • FootofGod
  • 47 Points
  • 05:54:25, 8 January

I bet that went over well.

  • [-]
  • Grays42
  • 9 Points
  • 06:21:48, 8 January

Actually, it didn't go over too badly. The guy who posted it concurred, but left the post up because it had generated a big discussion. I got some flak from a guy with horrible grammar making nonsense points, who eventually admitted he was drunk. Some direct quotes from him over the course of a meandering discussion:

> I would LOVE to see these projections broken down by race. Might piss some people off and be accused to be Republicans.

> Gangs don't massacre poeple and white people don't disapline their kids. That's right, i went there lol

> ADD = absence of discipline disorder. That's an unproven fact because discipline seems to be illegal. I'm not looking up numbers but I'm putting my money that the majority of ADD kids are white. Mentally ill massacre people. Gangs kill the innocent due to bad accuracy.

> It's alright, I'm drinking myself into a stuper. But who knows, I may wake up tomorrow and read this and feth

I particularly liked his "it's an unproven fact".

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  • [-]
  • IdleGod
  • 70 Points
  • 06:07:19, 8 January

>I will savagely attack bad numbers from the right, but I won't exempt bad numbers from my own side.

I love this attitude. It is not OK to lie to make a point, ever. If you get caught in the lie, your entire case becomes discredited. It is not OK to tout this terrible info graphic.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 0 Points
  • 06:37:20, 8 January

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • Grays42
  • 4 Points
  • 06:58:40, 8 January

I don't support the point "regardless of the numbers", I support the point because there are BETTER numbers available than the badly sourced infographic.

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  • [-]
  • p_iynx
  • 27 Points
  • 06:17:48, 8 January

Thank you for this. I was raped, but I hate when people try and sell these horrible infographics as fact. I don't want men to be demonised because of the mistake of one man.

I will say that I don't really doubt the number of unreported cases. I can think of 10 people off the top of my head that has been sexually abused and have never reported it to the authorities, myself included. I can't think of one person who has reported it. I live in a really liberal state with tons of support for women. But I still can never express the amount of shame and self-hatred being assaulted causes in a woman.

Tl;dr-I agree with your comment. But from personal experience I feel that the unreported cases are probably pretty accurate. Also, dinosaurs.

  • [-]
  • foolishnesss
  • 4 Points
  • 06:36:45, 8 January

Thank you for your post. I think too many people in here are willing to accept that rapes happen but they can't step in to some one else's shoes, such as yours, and understand how one wouldn't report a rape. People in here seem to cling to the idea that rape isn't common (1/3.5 girls and 1/5 boys are sexually assaulted by 18) and for some reason need to push the idea that there's a large portion of false accusations (there definitely are some).

  • [-]
  • Carmy325
  • 6 Points
  • 06:45:34, 8 January

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

I am very sorry to hear about what happened to you I was raped to and never reported and like you I know of MANY that were raped and never reported. The sad part is if you let me think about it for 3 min I dont even want to fathom the amount of men and women I know who have been raped and never reported. Yes the statistic is miss leading like you said but the unreported cases part is pretty much correct.

  • [-]
  • buster_casey
  • 3 Points
  • 07:00:31, 8 January

What's also sad is the notion that women can put themselves out there to report it, and nothing might come of it. My wife's best friend was raped by a man they were both familiar with. She reported it and the police pretty much said, "it's your word against his" and that's it. He then threatened to kill her and my wife, and when they reported the death threats, they did nothing about that as well. It's disgusting that these things aren't taken more seriously, by the general public and law enforcement.

  • [-]
  • antigoneinexile
  • 3 Points
  • 15:19:47, 8 January

Of all the women I know who've been assaulted, only one tried to seek any kind of justice, and ending up losing tons of friends and achieving nothing. I agree that people should try to to be accurate, but 2-8% false accusation rate seems pretty reasonable when accusing someone of rape, whether truthfully or not, is such a traumatic process.

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  • [-]
  • ecafdas
  • 7 Points
  • 06:27:50, 8 January

It's reasonable to question the 10% reporting number, but this doesn't follow:

>the [false accusation] number would be 10 times higher if the 10% reporting rate were 100%.

This is ridiculous. False accusations are lies, not rapes, and there's no such thing as an un-reported lie. Your assertion that people would suddenly start lying at 10x the current rate if 100% of actual rapes were reported makes no sense.

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  • [-]
  • dimensional_dan
  • 2 Points
  • 06:11:10, 8 January

If 8% of rapes are false accusations that makes up a very significant fraction of rape cases that result in convictions.

  • [-]
  • StinaShall
  • 10 Points
  • 05:50:42, 8 January

If i wasn't poor I'd give you all the gold.

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  • [-]
  • definitelynotaspy
  • 7 Points
  • 06:27:05, 8 January

One of the main sources they cite on the infographic article is this one by the US DoJ, which you don't mention at all.

You're making a lot of assumptions and misunderstanding a lot of the data yourself. The 2-8% figure (page 24), correct me if I'm wrong, includes all "unfounded" accusations, which includes not only false accusations but also accusations which may not be false but are for other reasons unvettable. So why are you assuming that the 8% figure is more accurate?

The infographic is shitty, and makes way too many assumptions to be taken seriously, but your analysis was bad too.

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  • [-]
  • mikemaca
  • 2 Points
  • 06:08:42, 8 January

Thanks for doing that research. I also was annoyed by the implication in the chart that 100% of all not guilty findings in jury trials is due to the jury being wrong because there was definitely a rape. If a jury, seeing all the evidence and hearing both sides of the story concluded "not guilty", how does the person doing this graph know more about all these cases to say that 100% of them were bad jury decisions.

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  • [-]
  • TeaPotCoffee
  • 117 Points
  • 05:30:50, 8 January

Victimization surveys* are conducted, and routinely demonstrate that individuals will admit to being the victim of a crime while not reporting it to police.

*Article mentions the UK mostly, but victim surveys are done in most 'developed' countries.

  • [-]
  • Canadian_Infidel
  • 11 Points
  • 05:54:32, 8 January

My only problem is the marginalization of the falsely accused. There are no surveys for them. It seems like to some people the ends justify the means.

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  • [-]
  • RedLotus77
  • 16 Points
  • 06:00:25, 8 January

And often the surveys use their own definition of rape. I.E. the question isn't:

"Have you ever been raped?"

It's

"Have you ever been convinced to have sex?"

So in many cases, the victims themselves don't even think they have been raped.

  • [-]
  • bitterpiller
  • 6 Points
  • 13:34:27, 8 January

Sorry, that's bullshit.

The kinds of questions asked by the British Crime Survey:

>Since age 16, has someone, either a stranger or someone you know, used violence, threats or intimidation to force you to do sexual things against your will?

Not particularly ambiguous.

>since age 16, has someone, either a stranger or someone you know, used violence, threats or intimidation to force you to have sexual intercourse against your will? By sexual intercourse we mean either vaginal or anal penetration

Still not ambiguous.

>since age 16, has someone, either a stranger or someone you know, ever attempted to force you to have sexual intercourse or make you do sexual things against your will?

http://help.northwest.nhs.uk/storage/library/Rapeandsexualassaultofwomen-crimesurvey.pdf

Those are all three of the screening questions used in the BCS. Estimates of the prevalence of different types of sexual assault and rape are derrived from the follow up questions of those who answered 'yes' to any of the above question.

Where did you get the 'have you ever been convinced to have sex' idea from? What survey do you know of that uses language as ambiguous as that?

  • [-]
  • soetual
  • 3 Points
  • 06:18:12, 8 January

"Here are some case studies, showing improvements in heart health, not to mention stress reduction and reducing depression, also when I squeeze your breasts you'll probably not get breast cancer"

"Well I'm Convinced!"

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  • [-]
  • uuuuuuuuuuuuuu
  • 120 Points
  • 05:33:47, 8 January

That's not the worst problem with this infographic. If you drill down into the data you'll see their numbers don't match the sources they quote, and their math is just flatly incorrect.

I mean, this doesn't even pass the obvious sniff test. There's a big block of "Reported rape," which wasn't brought to trial -- wasn't prosecuted. DA won't prosecute if there's no evidence. But they don't count any portion of those 70 markers as falsely accused, even though they represent an accused person who was not charged with a crime. One should expect that many falsely accused would avoid trial due to lack of a case.

The most fair commentary on this subject is probably from this 2006 study: First, many of the studies of false allegations have adopted unreliable or untested research methodologies and, so we cannot discern with any degree of certainty the actual rate of false allegations.

  • [-]
  • TheRealPariah
  • 26 Points
  • 05:44:09, 8 January

No no, don't you know that prosecutors hate rape cases and women and are just trying to let rapists go free? /s

In the real world, prosecutors love rape cases because they are easy to prosecute (due to extra tools they get in sexual assault cases) and it appeases the public. Something to think about when looking over this graph. They have an agenda and they are pushing it hard. "Facts" and "truth" take a backseat.

  • [-]
  • arianalouwe
  • 20 Points
  • 06:05:14, 8 January

Sure, also in the real world, victims hate rape cases because the only defense is to bash the victim. Most rape victims say they get raped twice, one by their rapist and once in court. I think that sheds some light on why so many rapes go unreported, because facing the stress of a trial is the last thing that someone needs who was just raped.

"Facts" and "Truth" will always be debatable, especially in the context of an eye catching infographic like this.

OF COURSE they have an agenda and are pushing it hard. OF COURSE they are interpreting and using the numbers to their best possible advantage to try and make people stop and think about rape.

It's trying to show that just because you think you don't know a rapist, its very likely that you do. Most women have a story, from a friend at least, about some very borderline sexual encounters, sometimes acknowledged as rape, and most are unreported. That's what this is drawing attention to, and thank god people are starting to pay some attention to it.

  • [-]
  • TheRealPariah
  • 13 Points
  • 06:18:46, 8 January

>Sure, also in the real world, victims hate rape cases because the only defense is to bash the victim.

When your accusation alone will ruin someone's life, you should be rigorously questioned to test the truth of your story by the police and in court. I don't know why rape victims are special victims, but all victims of crimes will have to testify against their alleged perpetrators. The alternative is to ruin more innocent people's lives.

>OF COURSE they have an agenda and are pushing it hard. OF COURSE they are interpreting and using the numbers to their best possible advantage to try and make people stop and think about rape.

No, I don't think they are using the numbers in the best possible light, I think they are looking at a group of surveys, picking the best ones, misinterpreting and misconstruing them, putting them together, and mischaracterizing the summary to push an agenda; they make various at least implicit assertions which are disgusting such as the assertion that all the people (except for maybe the falsely accused) are actually rapists. This assertion is actually contrary to the "studies" they cherry picked.

They're blinded by an agenda and the cumulative effect is a graphic which is laughable in how much disingenuous, manipulative crap it is.

>Most women have a story, from a friend at least, about some very borderline sexual encounters, sometimes acknowledged as rape, and most are unreported.

This is going to knock your socks off, but women are rapists too and men are victims of rape too. Most men have a story, from a friend at least, about some very borderline sexual encounters, sometimes acknowledged as rape, and almost all of them go unreported.

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  • [-]
  • professorstyle
  • 860 Points
  • 05:18:11, 8 January

Or falsely accused for that matter. I'm sure there are plenty who were falsely accused who just couldn't prove they were falsely accused. Statistics are misleading as fuck.

Edit: For the people who believe I'm some crazy guy who thinks all rapes are falsely accused, please, stop now. I obviously didn't say that, there is no need to direct your emotionally-charged verbal assaults at me. I was simply making a statement about STATISTICS, these ones just happen to be about a sensitive subject: rape. I ALSO think that more rapes happen than are shown in the graph, but never get reported. Rape is horrible, I know. But, please don't take your anger of "the act of rape" out on me simply because I said something you may not necessarily agree with. I assure you your anger with me is extremely misplaced.

  • [-]
  • Dabrenn
  • 286 Points
  • 05:36:46, 8 January

I forget who said it, but its a nice quote.

"there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."

  • [-]
  • crsini
  • 165 Points
  • 05:42:55, 8 January

Whenever you hear a good quote, 9 times out of 10 it's Mark Twain.

Not stats. Just facts.

  • [-]
  • Other_World
  • 187 Points
  • 05:56:43, 8 January

>Whenever you hear a good quote, 9 times out of 10 it's Mark Twain. Not stats. Just facts.

-Mark Twain.

  • [-]
  • ironpotato
  • 56 Points
  • 05:58:29, 8 January

This is the tenth time...

  • [-]
  • Zhang5
  • 21 Points
  • 06:15:58, 8 January

> Whenever you hear a good quote, 11 times out of 10 it's Mark Twain. Not stats. Just facts.

-Mark Twain.

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  • [-]
  • tbag7
  • 52 Points
  • 06:01:07, 8 January

"I didn't say half the things the internet says I did" -Mark Twain

  • [-]
  • alexxerth
  • 38 Points
  • 06:11:12, 8 January

Reddit: a major disaster for future historians.

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  • [-]
  • Agent_Woolsey
  • 8 Points
  • 06:12:09, 8 January

And the 10th time, it's Samuel Clemens.

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  • [-]
  • unireed
  • 7 Points
  • 05:57:08, 8 January

10 times out of 9

  • [-]
  • Blazinasian35
  • 4 Points
  • 06:08:31, 8 January

Dude you just made that up. Lawyered!

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  • [-]
  • judgeofmaat
  • 34 Points
  • 05:40:48, 8 January

That would be Samuel Clemens, BKA Mark Twain. That's who I heard it first attributed to, but it could've been a damned lie...

  • [-]
  • violatedchimp
  • 23 Points
  • 05:43:05, 8 January

Twain attributed it to Benjamin Disraeli.

  • [-]
  • calebnf
  • 15 Points
  • 05:50:52, 8 January

Benjamin Disraeli attributed it to Pocahontas.

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  • imnotthomas
  • 4 Points
  • 05:45:10, 8 January

Samuel Lincoln Disraeli. . . but he said it in Quenya.

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  • [-]
  • brocode101
  • 23 Points
  • 05:56:37, 8 January

Statistics are like bikinis . What they reveal is tantalizing, but what they hide is crucial. -Navjot Singh Sidhu

  • [-]
  • GimpKnight
  • 31 Points
  • 05:41:04, 8 January

Or falsely accused that were jailed. A lot of people get incensed at the mention of rape, and a lot of those people end up on juries with the mindset of "He wouldn't be accused if he weren't guilty."

Sometimes I don't have a lot of faith in our justice system.

  • [-]
  • Mewshimyo
  • 22 Points
  • 06:03:18, 8 January

Basically, when you go in front of a jury, you're going in front of 12 people so stupid they couldn't even get out of jury duty.

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  • [-]
  • ProffieThrowaway
  • 4 Points
  • 06:17:54, 8 January

It's pretty damned hard to get a rape conviction amongst victim blaming and folks backing the fellow up.

I once supported a male student as he went through a rape claim made against him. While it has been said that a small number of men commit a large number of rapes, it may also be true that a small number of women make a large number of false rape charges (and don't care about the damage done to their own character in doing so). In his case, this was true. I was a new TA at the school I had done my undergrad at. The woman in question had been an undergrad for awhile (5ish years) and made multiple claims of rape per year. She was eventually charged for doing so and thrown out of school. I graduated before any conviction came down, and never followed the case after he was not ultimately prosecuted.

At the same damned time at the same school, I can point to two serial date rapists in my relatively small circle of friends. One loved to "cuddle" with women only for them to wake up with him inside them. He was a creepy ass motherfucker that spent a full year walking around with a crowbar taller than he was (seriously, the thing was at least six feet long) that he had found at an old factory site as a walking stick. I have no idea how many people he did this to, but over the years several friends admitted feeling "guilty" for "leading him on" when sleeping in a room with lots of people at a party or while visiting over a break. He also dated a 14 year old for awhile (she lived with him) for two years, and even though her mother approved this is still statutory freaking rape.

The second fellow loved to go to the bar, buy a woman two fishbowls, and then barely drink himself. Most of these girls also didn't want to call it rape and blamed themselves. I know--one was my best friend. We didn't speak for months after I said it sounded like he raped her. Earlier in the year he had been dating a girl, did this to her several times, and it ended in her in a bar with a shotgun to her head--thankfully police intervened and she got help. He was never charged with anything either.

We live in a society where it's NOT okay to say someone raped you, even if they did, because you are saying they are a bad person (which is hard if it is a friend or someone in your group of friends) and is almost like saying that you are a slut. You had to do SOMETHING to deserve it, didn't you?

So I know of two guys that committed multiple rapes. They are both now married with families. How many might you know? If my experience is average-ish, then that's a lot of rape. :(

While yes, I did know one woman who made false claims, most people have heard of stories of false claims but not actually known someone making them. People think it happens all the time because it scares the shit out of them. But trust me--most women don't want their name dragged through the mud for the purpose of charging someone with a crime that just about everything is going to blame on them anyway. It fucking sucks.

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  • [-]
  • HoundDogs
  • 6 Points
  • 10:53:03, 8 January

>For the people who believe I'm some crazy guy who thinks all rapes are falsely accused, please, stop now. I obviously didn't say that,

Thread has been invaded by the local feminist cult, they don't care what you actually said, they project what they THINK you said onto your words so there really isn't any defending yourself.

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  • [-]
  • SweetGehenna
  • 26 Points
  • 05:44:31, 8 January

I myself can honestly say I was falsely accused.

  • [-]
  • drunken_trophy_wife
  • 70 Points
  • 06:00:26, 8 January

And I myself can honestly say I know four rapists who were never reported.

Edit: I've gotta say, it's interesting watching this comment get up- and down-voted. Up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down. Maybe y'all should think about exactly why you're clicking those little arrows. This comment, and the one above it, are just examples of really tiny samples that tell us nothing about the wider picture. For all you know, the guy above me is fudging the truth to soothe his conscience and I'm making shit up entirely. (For the record, what I said is true, and I imagine the guy above me is telling the truth too. But it's still meaningless.)

  • [-]
  • ViveLaBifle
  • 17 Points
  • 06:28:05, 8 January

I have two good friends who were raped and they didn't report them.

  • [-]
  • HyperactiveJudge
  • 5 Points
  • 06:58:49, 8 January

I know atleast 7 or more women that was raped and didn't report (one of them has been raped like 4 times.. I have no idea how that even happens). But I also know 3 guys that were falsely accused of rape, all got off and never went to court/trial.

  • [-]
  • chicklette
  • 6 Points
  • 07:37:17, 8 January

I know three women who were raped and didn't report it. I've been in 3 attempted rape situations that I got out of due to time/place, and I never reported any of them. One of my attackers raped a friend of mine. We were both 15, neither of us reported it (I found out about her attack after the fact.).

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  • [-]
  • Tench
  • 18 Points
  • 06:00:59, 8 January

I too have been falsely accused - although not formally, she just went around town telling people I raped her, until enough guys wanted to beat the shit out of me (and/or kill me).
Scariest moment of my life.

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  • [-]
  • prizzinguard
  • 9 Points
  • 05:58:55, 8 January

Not to mention that there are undoubtedly some falsely accused are are in jail.

  • [-]
  • Takingbackmemes
  • 3 Points
  • 06:02:13, 8 January

Going by the infographic, I'm guessing "falsely accused" only means those where the accuser admits to falsely accusing them. It explicitly counts those who went to trial and were acquitted as rapists, but who the fuck knows what the actual facts are? Same for the ones that are reported but never go to trial. The infographic just assumes they are guilty.

It's a pretty slippery chart if you ask me. The sad sad fact of the matter is, who the fuck knows? Our justice system is not perfect and never can be, and we should not just throw the presumption of innocence out the window. In terms of prosecuting rapes I think there isn't a vast amount of room for improvement. You can always improve, of course, but only by so much.

What I would really like to see, is for us to step it up in helping rape victims. Our present treatment of them is, quite frankly, abominable. It's my understanding that as it stands now victims must secure their own help, out-of-pocket, have their name dragged through the mud while doing so, and all while going through what is probably a very hellish part of their life. There need to be accessible, anonymous, affordable programs to help these people.

Rape, as a crime, is extremely difficult to prosecute. That doesn't mean that it should be hard to help the victims.

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  • [-]
  • wolfsktaag
  • 38 Points
  • 05:48:38, 8 January

the submitter is a prominent rape fetishist from SRS, btw

  • [-]
  • quadtodfodder
  • 16 Points
  • 05:59:01, 8 January

is that a thing?

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  • [-]
  • Atlasdaniel
  • 1 Points
  • 06:16:46, 8 January

Welp. Time to start raping. Just kidding

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  • [-]
  • cosmo7
  • 161 Points
  • 04:37:56, 8 January

How are the falsely reported ones part of the unreported block?

  • [-]
  • colgaf
  • 126 Points
  • 05:38:10, 8 January

Because placing them in the reported block gives the impression that ~2% of reported rapes are false accusations. Putting them in the faced trial block implies ~6% of trials are on innocent people. Chucking with the jailed gives you ~16% falsely imprisoned. All of these are against the message the creators of the graph want to send.

Any one with any sense/any true Scotsman will look at this realise that implying the "reported" and especially the "faced trial" are all also rapists is so questionable that they will walk away from the graph knowing that it was either somewhat justified for raising rape awareness even though it's misguided or will believe that the perpetrator of this graph is seriously undermining the credibility of those trying to raise awareness.

  • [-]
  • Eeasom
  • 34 Points
  • 05:52:04, 8 January

Why are the falsely reported ones black?

  • [-]
  • mydogisarhino
  • 36 Points
  • 05:55:24, 8 January

Yeah, I thought they'd be the jailed ones too...

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  • [-]
  • colgaf
  • 4 Points
  • 06:05:11, 8 January

If you read this study http://www.jstor.org/stable/3595153 on false eye witness identifications reports you'll notice that the rate of false identification is about 0.2% and doubles if the crime being witnessed is traumatic, racial biases can raise the rate to 9% in the case of black suspects. Weighting these numbers by the crime demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RaceandcrimeintheUnitedStates we can ascertain that of the 102 human units on the graph 2% were mistaken for someone else and they were almost all black. Leaving them out would make the graph less accurate.

Obviously the above paragraph should be taken as as accurate as the graph. In case anyone is still taking it seriously I am pulling your leg.

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  • [-]
  • fuckyoubarry
  • 4 Points
  • 05:54:49, 8 January

If they put them in with the jailed I'd wonder how the graph guy knew what really happened. I'd probably wonder the same thing if he put them with the reported block. I'm wondering the same thing now.

This is one of those thingies where a careful examination of the statistics they are trying to break down into a fucking pie chart is useful.

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  • [-]
  • runningcalf
  • 77 Points
  • 05:33:22, 8 January

Because this graph exists to push an agenda, not to make data easier to understand.

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  • [-]
  • Reechani
  • 15 Points
  • 05:24:53, 8 January

That's... a good question

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  • [-]
  • Bombadildo1
  • 3 Points
  • 05:52:21, 8 January

they did rape some people but didnt get reported then got falsely accused of raping someone else, that's the only logical reason to put them there.

  • [-]
  • andocideandiscourse
  • 8 Points
  • 05:41:03, 8 January

I actually think that it is trying to have one block of 'rapists' and another block (of only two) of 'falsely accused non rapists'. It's a bad way to present a graph, but yeah, I think that is what is going on.

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  • [-]
  • BlackPresident
  • 306 Points
  • 04:39:57, 8 January

So the dark brown group faced trial and were found not-guilty of rape? shouldn't they be part of the "Falsely Accused" group?

How can someone go on trial and be found innocent of rape and still be considered a rapist?

  • [-]
  • Kuonji
  • 100 Points
  • 04:49:41, 8 January

Well technically you are not 'found innocent'. You're already innocent (hah) when the trial starts. You are simply found 'not guilty'. It doesn't mean you didn't do it, necessarily, it simply means (when everything works the way it's supposed to) that there was not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did it.

  • [-]
  • RedAero
  • 66 Points
  • 05:27:02, 8 January

So, innocent for all intents and purposes, but not definitely so?

Still better than what this graph suggest, which is that they're rapists who got away with it.

  • [-]
  • SirLaughter
  • 40 Points
  • 05:36:19, 8 January

People don't like to think of people who face trial and are found innocent to be innocent, they prefer to think of them as having gotten off. Because people are fickle and mean.

  • [-]
  • cantquitreddit
  • 7 Points
  • 06:02:33, 8 January

Because there are some high profile cases of people getting off who were obviously guilty. I bet on average it doesn't happen all that often.

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  • [-]
  • Space_Penguin
  • 10 Points
  • 05:39:32, 8 January

Right, because the graph illustrates that all of the groups fall under the "Rapists" title. It does this by having them all be a similar color, and being grouped in the same grid as the larger "Rapist" group. The only exception is the "Falsely Accused" group, because it is a very different color.

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  • [-]
  • wildey
  • 39 Points
  • 05:23:30, 8 January

A person can also take a plea bargain and never go to trial.

  • [-]
  • Corbzor
  • 19 Points
  • 05:47:38, 8 January

They would probably be in the jailed section then, I'm pretty sure you couldn't plea rape down to probation and community service.

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  • [-]
  • Fibonacci35813
  • 15 Points
  • 05:32:35, 8 January

This is the best comment of the thread. While I agree in part with some of the replies, that the wording is ambiguous at best, if you go with the legal term,: Falsely accused = accused of rape and found not guilty (which I hope they did) then you are absolutely right.

Now of course, there are caveats that play with the stats. For example, is a rapist may get off on a technicality, or falsely accused could mean only individuals who were accused and then the police realised that it was false prior to even going to trial, but those things are impossible to glean from the infographic.

  • [-]
  • paralyzedbyindecisio
  • 13 Points
  • 05:37:15, 8 January

One option is that it is only counting felony convictions. So for example at the age of 13 or 14 my foster sister had a brief "relationship" with a 30 year old man. It was absolutely rape and caused her immense psychological damage, but by the time she was living with us and brave enough to report it (maybe age 16?) we only had enough evidence for something like 'lewd conduct with a minor" or something. It was not a felony and I don't believe he spent any time in prison.

  • [-]
  • touchy610
  • 5 Points
  • 06:25:27, 8 January

"My" rapist was allowed to plead to battery for knocking me half-unconscious with a wooden bedpost before violating me, because I couldn't prove that we hadn't had sex before "getting into a fight". I find it personally hilarious that he got a year in jail previously for breaking into an completely empty house, but only 18 months of probation for what he did to me.

Happily, he got two years (only served 14 months, though) for assaulting another woman while he was on probation.

  • [-]
  • lawcorrection
  • 4 Points
  • 06:01:19, 8 January

The whole point of beyond a reasonable doubt obscures this. Innocent and not guilty are PURPOSELY two different things.

  • [-]
  • befron
  • 4 Points
  • 06:01:22, 8 January

Haven't done any research into this, but from browsing the comments, it seems these figures are taken from all over the world. That means that a lot of people prosecuted would be set free because of social prejudices against women. Also, there are cases where it is obvious or common knowledge that a rape took place, but for some reason (such as again, social prejudices, no hard evidence, a technicality, etc.) the accused got off. The chart is very misleading and biased, but just because one did not get convicted it does not mean he is innocent.

  • [-]
  • Heinz_Tomato_Ketchup
  • 7 Points
  • 06:07:20, 8 January

Rape is a very easy crime to get away with..

  • [-]
  • cunttastic
  • 3 Points
  • 06:14:04, 8 January

Cases can be dropped for whatever reason.

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  • [-]
  • apullin
  • 94 Points
  • 05:23:58, 8 January

Grain of salt.

> which is dramatic, but possible.

Irresponsible.

> 9 are prosecuted.

10 year old data. "Probability of Prison" != prosecution rate, without further details provided to contextualize.

> This is across the board for all felony prosecutions, not just rape

Fallacy of composition.

> Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false

That's an assumption, not an analysis or a citation. The document they link to even says 2%-8%. How can they have the gall to call this "The truth about false accusation" when they state that they are using an assumption. The truth cannot be assumed. It is, at best, a projection.

Note that they make no effort to provide a philosophical analysis of why we as a society decide to bias the system one way or another, in favor of false positives or false negatives. This is just sensationalism.

  • [-]
  • CallMeNiel
  • 3 Points
  • 06:21:42, 8 January

Upvote for looking up the source. Their page explaining it sounds to me like, "Yeah, we basically pulled the numbers out of our ass, but it sounds about right, doesn't it? And besides, now we're talking about it!"

When statistics are misused like this, I sometimes wonder if the people doing it just assume that everybody else just makes up statistics all the time...

  • [-]
  • BlueberryMilkshake
  • 7 Points
  • 06:29:13, 8 January

Here, I bothered to actually check out their assumptions on their webiste:

For those of you who have asked, here is the background on the stats we used:

  • Some reports suggest that only 5-25% of rapes are reported to authorities. Other suggest that close to half are reported. We assumed 10%, which is dramatic, but possible.
  • Of the rapes that are reported, approximately 9 are prosecuted.
  • Of the prosecuted, 5 result in felony convictions. This is across the board for all felony prosecutions, not just rape.
  • Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false and a 10% reporting rate, the graphic assumes that 2 of 1000 rapes are falsely reported (assuming a rape can’t be falsely reported unless it’s reported in the first place)

(http://theenlivenproject.com/the-challenge-of-data/)

So basically,

  • We literally just made up an unlikely number of non-reported rapes at a rate of 10:1
  • Approx. 9 are prosecuted, even though the graphic shows ten (round up I guess) which is contrasted by the last made up statistic on the graphic which doesn't show falsely sentenced.
  • 5/9 felony convictions see prosecution. Which they bother to mention is a fact of felonies not just rape, indicating, superficially, that it's treated as a felony with no inference of cultural bias.
  • "Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false and a 10% reporting rate" There is no research basis for the 2% false reporting rate in a credible study I could find. And the 10% reporting rate, as they mentioned is a made up figure. Not just made up but "dramatic." As in not even a good estimate.

TL;DR A statistical infographic on a popular rag has been suspect for about as long as statistics have existed. By their own admission, these numbers aren't based on anything but speculation. So worthless.

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  • [-]
  • MikoMido
  • 16 Points
  • 06:00:31, 8 January

Using fleshtones was a bad choice.

  • [-]
  • Kuonji
  • 399 Points
  • 04:28:43, 8 January

I'm going to quote PierceHarlan because I think he said it best:

>Isn't it wonderful that the author of this graph is able to do what no rational and honest person is able to do: divine that all of these persons who weren't brought to justice were, in fact, rapists. You see, the accusation becomes its own conviction. Why bother with trials when you can have slick "rapist" graphs instead? I find this graph not just dishonest but repulsive. It is an affront to the community of the wrongly accused and is akin to holding reality up to a funhouse mirror: the image it creates is so misshapen, that one must look elsewhere to find the truth. The fact is, the vast majority of rape claims fall into a gray area where no one can say with certainty whether the claim amounted to an actual rape. Every serious study -- every single one -- leads to that conclusion. The dishonesty at work here is breathtaking.

  • [-]
  • RedAero
  • 75 Points
  • 05:25:59, 8 January

In addition to what he said, it makes a mockery of the justice system, the very system set up to determine how many people were accused correctly.

  • [-]
  • RedSolution
  • 52 Points
  • 05:38:05, 8 January

To be fair the justice system regularly makes a mockery of itself without the need for assistance from graphs or charts.

  • [-]
  • kadaan
  • 27 Points
  • 06:10:22, 8 January

IMO, it's better to let 10% get away with a crime than to imprison someone innocent 1% of the time.

Sure, it sucks when someone guilty gets away free, but it's an order of magnitude worse when an innocent person is convicted for something they didn't do.

  • [-]
  • Andy_Feltersnatch
  • 2 Points
  • 06:34:52, 8 January

It is a real shame that people don't understand this pivotal concept that the justice system revolves around

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  • [-]
  • hacksoncode
  • 1 Points
  • 05:55:20, 8 January

Actually, that's not what the justice system tries to do at all. It tries to avoid falsely convicting too many people. It fails sometimes.

It most certainly does not trying to determine how many were accused correctly.

Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent is punished unjustly isn't an accurate representation of the results, but it's a pretty fair description of what is attempted at least by the most honest members of the legal profession.

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  • [-]
  • Thunder-ten-tronckh
  • 15 Points
  • 05:49:05, 8 January

How I would have said it: "This chart sucks."

He was more eloquent than I.

  • [-]
  • TheRealPariah
  • 34 Points
  • 05:46:01, 8 January

And ones who are brought to trial and charged... and are not convicted are, of course, actual rapists. All the non-reported cases are actual rapists. And all the reported cases which are not brought to trial are actual rapists. The only people on that graph who aren't rapists (I guess) are the 2% of cases (based on a flawed study in Australia) where the accuser was actually charged for false accusation.

I don't know which world you live on where prosecutors are not chomping at the bit to prosecute rape cases, but it certainly isn't this one. People hate rapists; they despise them. They hate them so much they are willing to pass laws which make it much easier to convict rapists (even over murderers). Society cares more about convicting rapists than they care about convicting murderers.

These people quite clearly have an agenda... and they're not going to let facts, truth, or reality get in the way of that.

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  • [-]
  • asifnot
  • 8 Points
  • 06:23:08, 8 January

From their website about this infographic: For those of you who have asked, here is the background on the stats we used: •Some reports suggest that only 5-25% of rapes are reported to authorities. Other suggest that close to half are reported. We assumed 10%, which is dramatic, but possible. •Of the rapes that are reported, approximately 9 are prosecuted.

•Of the prosecuted, 5 result in felony convictions. This is across the board for all felony prosecutions, not just rape.

•Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false and a 10% reporting rate, the graphic assumes that 2 of 1000 rapes are falsely reported (assuming a rape can’t be falsely reported unless it’s reported in the first place)

In other words, we took bits and peices of studies we won't link you to, and made up the rest because we wanted to make a point.

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  • [-]
  • rigiddigit
  • 5 Points
  • 06:36:40, 8 January

wait, how do you know they're rapists if they didn't face trial?

  • [-]
  • nickb64
  • 3 Points
  • 06:42:09, 8 January

Get out of here with your "innocent until proven guilty" bullshit. This is the internet

/s

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  • [-]
  • BenFranklinsGhost
  • 102 Points
  • 04:37:39, 8 January

It makes no sense. The two falsely accused guys were, by definition, reported; why are they shown next to a huge crowd of secret rapists?

Surely some of the falsely accused end up on trial or in jail; shouldn't the two black figures be up in jail with the red guys?

TIL that two in ten men in jail for rape were falsely accused. Yikes.

  • [-]
  • bluemellophone
  • 23 Points
  • 05:13:05, 8 January

I see this chart to be very misleading as a type of medium for this information. It should really be a venn diagram, which can accurately convey the subsets and intersections.

Edit: Also, I don't know if they really mean that falsely accused is a strict subset of the jailed set. A chart is not supposed to be ambiguous like this... It is also 1 in 6 (2 in 12) in our interpretation of the data because falsely accused are considered in the jailed set too. See, ambiguous.

  • [-]
  • shadus
  • 10 Points
  • 05:36:08, 8 January

Falsely accused in this graph LIKELY is considered to be "Victim claimed rape, then recanted at some point." Since a NOT GUILTY finding in this particular graph leaves you in either "Reported" or "Faced Trial"

  • [-]
  • bluemellophone
  • 3 Points
  • 05:45:49, 8 January

I guess my chief problem with the graph is that it seems like a reported person is distinct from a falsely reported, faced trial, and jailed person; however, a person can only be falsely reported, face trial or jailed if they have been reported... There is no information about these people belonging to multiple groups when they obviously intersect. The information is being presented like race or gender or age, which are intrinsically exclusive.

Edit: I know you did not personally create this graph, but how then would a falsely convicted person be portrayed?

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  • [-]
  • thehouse1751
  • 14 Points
  • 05:11:11, 8 January

"...shouldn't the two black figures be up in jail..." racist

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  • [-]
  • lawndartbe
  • 91 Points
  • 05:20:19, 8 January

Pathetic misrepresentation (and deliberate falsification) of statistics. One of their data sources quotes a rate of report of 35%, but hey, that's not dramatic enough, so lets just pull 10% out of our arse and use that instead.

If you want to generate debate, do so honestly.

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  • [-]
  • crazyg33k
  • 6 Points
  • 05:55:23, 8 January

if you can count the total number of rapists, aren't they are "reported"?

  • [-]
  • Bob3333
  • 4 Points
  • 06:03:08, 8 January

What a piece of shit infographic. There is no possible way to know any of that information with any degree of certainty.

  • [-]
  • jasper011
  • 29 Points
  • 05:49:37, 8 January

Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I was recently raped, by somebody I know (friend of a friend). I didn't report it because I felt that it would ruin his life and that it was just a mistake one night by an otherwise nice guy. Long story short, we both got drunk, very very drunk. Fast forward to making out. He tries to take things further, I say no - I'm a sleep-with-boyfriend-only person. In my drunkeness and after him begging, pleading, harassing, I start to cave. Then I decide that I'm definitely not comfortable with it and ask him to stop - roll over to go to a drunken slumber. Wake up a little bit later to him just finishing.

I somewhat encouraged it. I wasn't firm enough and I don't think he realized I actually fell asleep.... but still... I've been terrified to get close to men since then. The situation pushed me back into the arms of my ex. One drunken night we slept together and it was the most healing thing I could ever ask for. To know that if I ever even hinted that I just wanted to stop and cuddle.... it would happen immediately. No questions asked. Fuck, he'd even do it enthusiastically. But the knowledge that my happiness meant more to him than getting off.... man, that reminded me that there are some truly good people out there.

  • [-]
  • Protagoris
  • 28 Points
  • 06:08:50, 8 January

Rape is never ever the victim's fault.

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  • [-]
  • MikoMido
  • 7 Points
  • 06:03:49, 8 January

I'm so sorry the first part happened to you, your story gave me chills. I'm happy you could find some peace again.

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  • [-]
  • ProbablyBeingIronic
  • 32 Points
  • 04:41:04, 8 January

To be falsely accused, you have to either stand trial and be exonerated, or the accuser has to admit falsifying the claim. Either way, the accused carries a stigma from then on.

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  • [-]
  • 9y6
  • 18 Points
  • 05:58:51, 8 January

Alleged rapists aren't rapists

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  • [-]
  • gabedamien
  • 5 Points
  • 06:13:26, 8 January

This infographic uses 2% as its figure for false accusations, yet as a source links to this document which actually states that a "realistic figure" converges on 2–8%. Interesting how they have selective hearing in that regard ("two to eight" equals "two?").

It's a shame, because the rest of the infographic may well be accurate (insofar as such statistics are reliable) but I have no more motivation to investigate further. With that single figure they've already demonstrated that they are more interested in stacked statistics than in inspiring action through the most accurate data.

This intent of my post has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of rape or rape reporting per se; I am merely pointing out an issue of objectionable data misrepresentation. Is it a big issue, or a wildly unfair one? No, it is actually quite a small one. But it does undermine this graphic's credibility.

  • [-]
  • 3010
  • 4 Points
  • 06:38:05, 8 January

There needs to be separate statistics for rape and "the bitch who cried rape" or it's meaningless.

For example, if you're drunk and you bring a guy to your house, or go to his and you fuck, that's not rape. Unless you actually say stop.

The fact of the matter is that people make the mistake of drunkenly fucking people (especially people they know) regretting it and pretending it was rape when it was consensual.

  • [-]
  • Facepalms4Everyone
  • 5 Points
  • 07:37:02, 8 January

Hoo boy. Let's break down this atrocity of a graphic, shall we?

In the explainer graf on the Enliven Project's website, we read, among other things:

> One of the key challenges about sexual assault statistics is that it’s nearly impossible to gather accurate and consistent data about incidence and prevalence.

Should've stopped here. What they did only exacerbates the problem. But let's humor them (emphasis that follows is mine):

>For those of you who have asked, here is the background on the stats we used:

> Some reports suggest that only 5-25% of rapes are reported to authorities. Other suggest that close to half are reported. We assumed 10%, which is dramatic, but possible.

That first thing cited is a report authored by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in London. It was published in 2007 and was an update to a report first published in 2002, for investigations carried out in in 2006 and 2001, respectively. The second is from the National Crime Victimization Survey, administered by the U.S. Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics, and contains data collected from 1973 to 2011. So, does this graphic represent rape cases in the U.S., in Britain, in both or worldwide? Is misleading even if one of those is the correct answer, but we don't even know. And which time periods does it cover? A specific one, or a giant range? Again, impossible to tell. Well, hey, let's just pick a number between them and go with that.

> Of the rapes that are reported, approximately 9 are prosecuted.

First of all, "9" what? Nine percent? Nine out of 10 (which would be 90 percent)? We don't know. And these are people who are prosecuted, but the graphic says they "Faced Trial." Those are not the same thing. And there are 30 of them pictured -- 10 who were jailed and 20 who were not. This equals 3 percent of their total sample size of 1,000 but 30 percent of the reduced sample of 100 reported. So where does the nine factor in?

Secondly, that statistic comes from a report from the National Center for Policy Analysis, a "nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. Our goal is to develop and promote private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector." The report, called "Crime and Punishment in America: 1999," was published in 1999 and contains data from 1950 to 1998. And nowhere does it mention who was prosecuted, only convictions. The nine number seems to come from bottom of Table A-4, "Probability of Prison for Serious Crimes, 1950-1997," where it gives an estimated rate of 9 percent of probability of prison for rape. That's not prosecution, that's conviction, and it's an estimate of a probability. Jesus. It shouldn't even apply here; it should apply to the "Jailed" part of the graphic.

> Of the prosecuted, 5 result in felony convictions. This is across the board for all felony prosecutions, not just rape.

Five out of what? Nine? So 55 percent? To recap, the graphic says of every 1,000 rapes, 100 are reported. Of those 100, 30 face prosecution (which we have no evidence to back up), and of those 30, 10 are jailed. This means 33 percent of those facing prosecution for a reported rape are jailed. The report referenced is from the Bureau of Justice Statistics published in 2010 that reviewed State Court Processing Statistics from 1990 to 2006 in the 75 largest counties in the U.S., and it applies to all felony convictions, not just rape, as they admitted. In the "Highlights" section on the first page, it says "Sixty-eight percent of felony defendants were eventually convicted, and 95% of these convictions occurred through a guilty plea." Ah, 68 percent or double the 33 percent you've illustrated. Well, better make another 10 of those dark-brown men red.

The number also contradicts the one in the point above, which listed the probability of jail time for rape at an estimated 9 percent in 1998 and about 9.25 percent for the period of the study, 1950-1998. That's probably because the two reference studies only overlap for a period of about eight years, so the actual number is probably higher than.

> Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false and a 10% reporting rate, the graphic assumes that 2 of 1000 rapes are falsely reported (assuming a rape can’t be falsely reported unless it’s reported in the first place).

The first reference is to a report from the National Center for the Prosecution of Violence Against Women titled "False Reports: Moving Beyond the Issue to Successfully Investigate and Prosecute Non-Stranger Sexual Assault." It, in turn, references a host of other studies done in different time periods on different worldwide populations to come to this sentence: "Of course, in reality, no one knows — and in fact no one can possibly know — exactly how many sexual assault reports are false. However, estimates narrow to the range of 2-8% when they are based on more rigorous research of case classifications using specific criteria and incorporating various protections of the reliability and validity of the research — so the 'study' does not simply codify the opinion of one detective who may believe a variety of myths regarding false reporting." So for the fourth and final assumption, they've decided that the first three assumptions hold true and, while they decided on a number somewhere in the middle of how many rape cases are actually reported, only use the low end of the range of false reports from this study.

TL;DR This monstrosity is all kinds of fucked up. At best, it's a terrible attempt at illustrating a point with data they outright admit doesn't exist; a guess, and not even an educated one. At worst, it hurts their cause by easily allowing the apathetic or opposition to frame it as useless propaganda.

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  • [-]
  • -ass-
  • 81 Points
  • 04:13:50, 8 January

I like how the black dudes are falsly accused and the rapists are all white. I guess the indians are jailed, and the hispanics faced trial but were let off.

  • [-]
  • BARACKINATOR
  • 34 Points
  • 05:20:55, 8 January

And the only ones who are jailed are Native Americans. I call bullshit.

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  • [-]
  • amd87
  • 86 Points
  • 05:43:46, 8 January

Why is reddit so desperately obsessed with the idea that women just throw around false rape accusations all the time?

  • [-]
  • pikeel
  • 22 Points
  • 06:03:33, 8 January

I'd like to think its because most redditors believe they're good people who can't imagine people are as bad as misguided infographics like this portray them to be?

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  • [-]
  • Stavrosian
  • 28 Points
  • 06:01:59, 8 January

Well, you've got one group of people obsessed with throwing around the idea that men rape all the time, and another group obsessed with throwing around the idea that women lie about it all the time.

Glancing at the surface suggests they are both overplaying their hands.

  • [-]
  • sinkh
  • 26 Points
  • 06:35:30, 8 January

I don't believe that men rape all the time. I believe that most men are decent rape-hating folk. However I believe that the men who do rape get away with it most of the time, partly due to all the men who have convinced themselves that women lie about it all the time. The men (and women) who rigidly hold that belief are a big problem for rape victims who want to prosecute.

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  • [-]
  • anumati
  • 27 Points
  • 06:10:09, 8 January

Because it's full of guys who are terribly threatened by women.

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  • [-]
  • High_Entropy
  • 35 Points
  • 04:14:11, 8 January

I would suspect that this would be the case with nearly every other type of crime people commit. There will always be far more people that commit the crimes than are actually convicted of it. The only crime I would suspect would have more convictions than not would be murder, and that's only because of the diligence with which they investigate...

  • [-]
  • ManiacalShen
  • 2 Points
  • 05:53:45, 8 January

I think the reporting issue distinguishes rape from a lot of other crimes. If someone steals my car or breaks into my house, I'm going to report it. How else am I supposed to recoup insurance money? There a lot of times where it only helps you to have a police report on the books. Meanwhile, things like shoplifting don't always get reported, but that's for totally different reasons from the ones that keep rapes unreported.

Rape victims look at the cost/benefit ratio of dealing with the legal system and society and, in many cases, go, "nope."

There are limits to what you can do about that, since the crime IS so hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Society's love of victim-blaming bullshit can be tackled, however.

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  • [-]
  • Kuonji
  • 29 Points
  • 04:36:37, 8 January

Do you mind? We're trying to get outraged, here.

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  • [-]
  • Dripsauce
  • 5 Points
  • 05:44:22, 8 January

Keep in mind this is probably a reflection of the number of assaults, rather than the number of perpetrators. It's likely that a rapist would attack multiple people before being caught.

  • [-]
  • ololcopter
  • 7 Points
  • 06:28:08, 8 January

Infographs are the buzzy pseudo-science of our day. Whether the source material is accurate or not it almost always gets lost when you try to condense it into terms a five-year-old could understand.

Life is more complicated than what a five-year-old can understand. If you're too lazy to think then don't even talk about these subjects.

  • [-]
  • InfiniteFinite
  • 7 Points
  • 07:00:44, 8 January

http://i.imgur.com/IWLOp.jpg?1

  • [-]
  • orsini1138
  • 5 Points
  • 07:06:21, 8 January

Looks like SRS is trying to spread lies again.

  • [-]
  • jasonchristopher
  • 54 Points
  • 05:25:00, 8 January

This is obnoxious. Fuck this graph, and fuck this attitude it perpetuates. Exaggerating and twisting numbers obtained from shady sources serves to minimize real victims and cast men in a real shitty light. Pure propaganda. I won't even get into all of the obvious math problems going on here, everyone else has.

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  • [-]
  • HapHapperblab
  • 13 Points
  • 05:35:27, 8 January

Can I just point out that in the eyes of western judicial systems if a person went to trial and was found not guilty, and if we are to presume innocence until proven guilty, then they are in fact falsely accused of rape. There should be no part of this demographic that demonstrates "went to court and was proven not guilty" as these people should be in the "falsely accused" grouping.

edit for the many replies I've gotten stating "but you're wrong because not guilty =/= innocent. Please re-read the following part of my statement:

>and if we are to presume innocence until proven guilty

  • [-]
  • hacksoncode
  • 1 Points
  • 06:03:07, 8 January

There's a big difference between "proven not guilty" and "not proven guilty". Courts (in the U.S.) only attempt the latter, not the former.

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  • [-]
  • nXiety
  • 13 Points
  • 05:53:09, 8 January

My friend was one of the falsely accused. :/ 5 years(his full sentence, never had an incident, always promises early release for the last 2 years) later, finally released.

And the accuser... not a fucking thing done. Witnesses and all.

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  • [-]
  • TheSomnambulist
  • 4 Points
  • 05:45:28, 8 January

Source for the data? I'd be interested to read that.

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  • [-]
  • Sharkictus
  • 5 Points
  • 06:03:15, 8 January

Shouldnt falsely accused overlap with reported? They cant be falsely accused without being reported...

  • [-]
  • Skarjo
  • 4 Points
  • 06:05:52, 8 January

Erm, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but even by their own figures that graphic is wrong. If they're claiming that their best/worst (however you look at it) case scenario is that 2% of rapes are false accusations, then why does the graph show 0.2%? It's a 50 by 20 grid, so 1000 'men', so if 2/1000 are false accusations then that's a rate of 0.2%. There should be 10 times as many false accusations shown.

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  • [-]
  • CO_glass_artist
  • 4 Points
  • 06:07:45, 8 January

You did not use the values given in the source you cite as the source of your statistics, but instead used a value that was 3.5 times more “dramatic”, and which comes from a source that you do not cite.

  • [-]
  • coolstorybrosky
  • 4 Points
  • 06:08:31, 8 January

None of this makes any fuckin sense. How do you know if theyre rapists if they never were reported? Even then, they are not rapists until proven guilty. If those are the ones that went to jail, then those were the guilty ones.

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  • [-]
  • TheThirdTask
  • 4 Points
  • 06:10:10, 8 January

Where is the Credible Hulk when you need him?

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  • jbrittles
  • 2 Points
  • 06:10:11, 8 January

how do they know how many rapes are not reported? and how could they call it a rape if even the jury said its not rape??

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  • [-]
  • GregoriusMaximus
  • 4 Points
  • 06:13:57, 8 January

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

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  • FurriesRuinEverythin
  • 4 Points
  • 06:23:34, 8 January

If the cases of rape are unreported then how can they even have these numbers without just pulling them out of their arse?

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  • [-]
  • Jizza2504
  • 2 Points
  • 06:24:22, 8 January

I see no women in this infograph. Maybe ratio doesn't equate to one female. Shocking as it looks, does it show the full picture? What source is the data from? I had read also that the majority of rapes in America happen in all male prisons. Any truth behind this?

  • [-]
  • panzerkampfwagen
  • 2 Points
  • 06:29:49, 8 January

Yeah, certainly does. Reminds me how people think you're automatically guilty of any crime you're accused of.

I'm glad they know that 2 are false. What about all the ones where a person wasn't convicted?

  • [-]
  • Standards_
  • 3 Points
  • 06:30:41, 8 January

Why are they "men" stick figures?!

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  • [-]
  • NRB15
  • 4 Points
  • 06:38:45, 8 January

this graph is such an under representation of the falsely accused it makes me sick. the way the word "rape" is thrown around nowadays is so sickening that you literally have to ask a woman everyime you are about to engage in sex "is this alright with you? do you agree to this?"

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  • JimBobMcGrady
  • 4 Points
  • 07:06:08, 8 January

This has been removed from WTF. Just... good moderation.

  • [-]
  • dexo568
  • 4 Points
  • 07:11:13, 8 January

This graph would tell quite a different story if you cropped it to include only reported rapes and upped the "falsely accused" to its accepted percentile of 8%. That would do a much better job of showing rape as the complex issue it actually is.

  • [-]
  • escaped_reddit
  • 10 Points
  • 06:00:02, 8 January

I sincerely doubt that the number of falsely accused is that small.

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  • [-]
  • Bubblesofdeath
  • 56 Points
  • 03:41:44, 8 January

There I am! Right in the middle!

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  • [-]
  • ninefivedelta
  • 24 Points
  • 05:44:44, 8 January

It's pretty cool they are all portrayed as male. That's sweet.

I was taken advantage of by a female. You can imagine how trying to tell people that went.

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  • lurker_becomes_lurkd
  • 6 Points
  • 06:37:01, 8 January

I was taken advantage of by a female as well. For all these years I thought that it was consensual because I had an orgasm. In recent years I've reflected on the events and realized that I didn't want to have sex with her and she got me drunk just so my judgment would be impaired. It's really hard to say that I was raped because I associate rape with a dark alley or pills in a drink. To think that I was raped while having the ability to stop it is a hard thing to accept. I guess society forces men to think that they cannot be raped, that they can only rape. I call bullshit on that.

I was raped by a woman. I didn't want to sleep with her and she forced herself on me.

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  • [-]
  • Eckleburgseyes
  • 23 Points
  • 05:44:54, 8 January

Both the people who produced this preposterous chart, and the people who are angry about it should stop. Take a step back. And focus on one thing; finding ways to lower the number of rapes. Rapes are bad. Worse even than bad statistics. Bad statistics are not helpfull but since the vast majority of us are good, rape hating people, we can ignore this bullshit and just be reminded to look out for ways to stop rapists.

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  • [-]
  • raaaaaape
  • 6 Points
  • 06:29:35, 8 January

New and Improved

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  • angryjerk
  • 10 Points
  • 06:06:01, 8 January

rape is one of the most fucked up things people do to each other, and posting misinformation about it doesn't help

this chart is made up and should be downvoted

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  • [-]
  • ssdecontrol
  • 20 Points
  • 05:01:37, 8 January

84% of statistics are made up.

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  • [-]
  • illmatic707
  • 7 Points
  • 05:54:40, 8 January

This shit makes all kinds of no sense.

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  • gifforc
  • 8 Points
  • 05:31:06, 8 January

There is literally no way to know the number of "rapists" that are falsely accused.

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  • IDontHaveTimeForThis
  • 9 Points
  • 05:54:46, 8 January

Don't mind me, I'm just here for the shit-fit I knew would be in the comments.

  • [-]
  • xXx_360_UpVoTe_xXx
  • 8 Points
  • 06:04:01, 8 January

The submitter is a frequent visitor of SRS subreddits, so no bias at all

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  • [-]
  • dogfighter42
  • 7 Points
  • 05:58:13, 8 January

As a CJ major myself I can vouch that this is accurate. Do you know why it goes so unreported? Because most rapes are committed by people you know. This in turn leads to the victim feeling that they can "deal with" the problem themselves. Others are afraid to report it because they think people will view them as liars just trying to get attention. And yes, the vast majority of rapes are committed by men. Either man w/woman or man w/man. The same goes for all crimes as a matter of fact (committed mostly by men).

  • [-]
  • ddfreedom
  • 11 Points
  • 04:54:36, 8 January

Completely speculative for the majority of that slide which is criminally intellectually dishonest. There is a criminally large "assumption" drawn from a group of surveys (the NVCS) which are highly suspect to bias. Further the falsely accused number are likely those in which the accusation is PROVEN to be false...not including cases where a false allegation was made but the case was dropped for insufficient evidence (intuitively a much more likely scenario)

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  • [-]
  • Chikcen
  • 12 Points
  • 05:07:02, 8 January

This is really shocking. I presume the question of 'what constitutes rape' comes into play. I know that there is a surprising number of less than consensual sexual engagements between couples that just get swept under the rug. I knew a friend that this happened to - really tragic.

  • [-]
  • WildBerrySuicune
  • 5 Points
  • 05:55:26, 8 January

Can someone create or link a graph that matches the facts?

  • [-]
  • FANGO
  • 5 Points
  • 06:05:16, 8 January

What's with the difference between "faced trial" and "jailed?" If someone faced trial and was acquitted, then no, they aren't a rapist. Has everyone forgotten about the presumption of innocence?

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  • [-]
  • illogic6
  • 5 Points
  • 06:06:39, 8 January

Meanwhile at SRS headquarters an alarm sounds summoning the hordes.

Y'all 'bout ta get ya privilege checked.

  • [-]
  • lifejolt
  • 3 Points
  • 06:37:33, 8 January

This graph is a pile of shit and helps nobody.

  • [-]
  • fejorama
  • 5 Points
  • 06:39:40, 8 January

Is it just me, or does it seem pretty reasonable that the punishment for falsely accusing someone of a crime, ANY crime, where it can be blatantly proven that you deliberately and maliciously made the whole thing up, should be 2x the sentence the person you accused would have received?

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  • [-]
  • Cheddercheese
  • 5 Points
  • 06:45:55, 8 January

Well you've got to remember that a lot of these are guys having sex with 17 year olds who claim to be 18 year olds or when they call it rape if you have sex with them while they're drunk and made a bad decision.

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  • [-]
  • z3r0d
  • 5 Points
  • 06:00:39, 8 January

This infographic is very misleading.

It -assumes- that 10% of rape victims report the crimes, which is almost assuredly an overexaggeration. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/press/vnrp0610pr.cfm http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st229?pg=11 (and these were just the first ones I saw.) It also -assumes- that 2% of rapes were falsely reported. Even in the article it uses as proof (http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/thevoicevol3no12009.pdf), it concedes that "41% of the 109 sexual assault reports made to one Midwestern police agency were deemed to be false over a nine-year time period". This was a determination by a detective (so probably unreliable), but later in a sample size, "Of the 2,059 cases that were included in the study, 140 (7%) were classified as false." Multiple other studies (which that info-graphic uses to justify its horrifically biased 2%) are cited, all over 2%.

I'm not saying rape isn't a problem, or that we shouldn't be discussing it, but hyperbole is not the way to promote the discussion. Infact, I don't see how using accurate (you know, not ultra-provactive, and misleading) figures would dampen the impact the graph is making.

This is all from digging a little into the website this is from: http://theenlivenproject.com/the-truth-about-false-accusation/

  • [-]
  • if_statement
  • 15 Points
  • 04:31:16, 8 January

Shouldn't the falsely accused not be on this graphic? I mean they're not actually rapists, someone was just being a bitch.

  • [-]
  • curdledgorilla
  • 19 Points
  • 04:51:45, 8 January

But then it wouldn't have been a square.

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  • [-]
  • TechnoTrain
  • 10 Points
  • 05:41:38, 8 January

http://i.imgur.com/y4CMx.png

Keep the statistic manipulations and blatant bullshit on your part of this website that you hate so much.

  • [-]
  • holymojo96
  • 9 Points
  • 05:48:18, 8 January

ITT: Everyone realizing this post is bullshit

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  • [-]
  • teaux
  • 8 Points
  • 04:52:57, 8 January

I lead a pretty sheltered life, but this seems a tad incredulous. Also, "Assuming 2% of reported rapes are false" - how was this figure determined?

  • [-]
  • runningcalf
  • 8 Points
  • 05:34:30, 8 January

Well, if we assume a bunch of numbers...then this is a epidemic of unimaginable proportions!

  • [-]
  • ddfreedom
  • 18 Points
  • 04:59:30, 8 January

the same way the rest of the graph was...they made it up after looking at various news articles without takign the time to source any data.

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  • [-]
  • Chan_Chan
  • 14 Points
  • 05:56:17, 8 January

Why are they all men silhouettes, women rape too.

  • [-]
  • violetxrain
  • 13 Points
  • 06:22:44, 8 January

Women wear pants too. But it's true. Sometimes the rapist is a woman and sometimes men get raped. Rape isn't about gender.

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  • [-]
  • SolomonGrumpy
  • 3 Points
  • 05:49:56, 8 January

Worldwide or US?

  • [-]
  • HapHapperblab
  • 2 Points
  • 05:57:38, 8 January

Also, 'jailed' does not mean '100% guilty' as several cases have shown. Where is the space for 'falsely jailed'?

  • [-]
  • easyEmm13ZD
  • 3 Points
  • 06:03:11, 8 January

So are there any women (or men) who have been victims of rape? Putting aside the bias statistics of this "study" etc., do you have friends who have been victims? And possibly couldn't report it because they would put themselves in more danger? I believe this to be the issue even if only half of the victims reporte it to the police.

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  • [-]
  • FCalleja
  • 4 Points
  • 06:03:12, 8 January

I don't get how this thread got 1200+ upvotes if EVERY SINGLE COMMENT before having to load more is calling it on its bullshit.

  • [-]
  • Chimp96
  • 2 Points
  • 06:10:19, 8 January

Why are all of them men?

  • [-]
  • Dunkeal
  • 1 Points
  • 06:13:26, 8 January

The color of the falsely accused. Oh boy. After reading To Kill A Mockingbird, that really hit home.

  • [-]
  • SirHephaestus
  • 3 Points
  • 06:16:05, 8 January

Falsely accused is much higher.

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  • [-]
  • didntboneher
  • 1 Points
  • 06:16:14, 8 January

Thanks whoever made this graph, my entire adult life I have abstained from rape because of the consequences but now I realize that was based on misinformation and false fears. With only a 1% chance of any real consequences I'm going to go sit in the bushes by the jogging trail and make up for lost time.

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  • [-]
  • askfu
  • 1 Points
  • 06:16:42, 8 January

My friend and I were falsely accused of rape, but we're not black like the picture shows; so add two more.

  • [-]
  • Bakershaker93
  • 3 Points
  • 06:16:47, 8 January

And how on Earth did they determine that number?

  • [-]
  • Shock_Hazzard
  • 1 Points
  • 06:18:57, 8 January

Those poor little black dudes... Forced into the corner...

Thatsracist.gif

  • [-]
  • PsychoMashugana
  • 1 Points
  • 06:20:58, 8 January

So you're saying it's easy to get away with...

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  • [-]
  • dinky_hawker
  • 1 Points
  • 06:29:13, 8 January

pasted from http://theenlivenproject.com/the-challenge-of-data/

[citations are hotlinked, in the original.]

[my comments below the break]

For those of you who have asked, here is the background on the stats we used:

> Some reports suggest that only 5-25% of rapes are reported to authorities. Other suggest that close to half are reported. We assumed 10%, which is dramatic, but possible.

>Of the rapes that are reported, approximately 9 are prosecuted.

> Of the prosecuted, 5 result in felony convictions. This is across the board for all felony prosecutions, not just rape.

>Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false and a 10% reporting rate, the graphic assumes that 2 of 1000 rapes are falsely reported (assuming a rape can’t be falsely reported unless it’s reported in the first place)

If you have other stats you would like to share, please leave them in comments. Thank you!


my comments


>Of the rapes that are reported, approximately 9 are prosecuted.

this depends on a reference that was created in 1999. It's 14 years old. important intervening events: changing rape laws over the last 14 years.

> Of the prosecuted, 5 result in felony convictions. This is across the board for all felony prosecutions, not just rape.

This depends on a completely different data set; a study that was done in 2010, regarding regarding data about 2006.

>Assuming that 2% of reported rapes are false and a 10% reporting rate,

This study was from American Prosecutors Research Institute’s National Center for the Prosecution of Violence Against Women and the pdf literally had a built-in advertisement. (last page)

the 2% figure is called into question by greer: http://ncfm.org/libraryfiles/Children/rape/greer.pdf

  • [-]
  • mintrichard
  • 1 Points
  • 06:32:33, 8 January

So....only black guys are falsely accused?

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  • [-]
  • Rando_Thoughtful
  • 3 Points
  • 06:34:50, 8 January

Shouldn't it say Alleged Rapists?

  • [-]
  • Heinz_Tomato_Ketchup
  • 3 Points
  • 06:38:09, 8 January

Rape is the most unreported violent crime in this country. This isn't news.

It's depressing.

  • [-]
  • Honeyblade
  • 1 Points
  • 06:47:17, 8 January

Came to this thread expecting a bunch of dudes to be up in arms, did not disappoint.

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  • [-]
  • katzemann
  • 1 Points
  • 06:53:13, 8 January

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1666yo/rapeinfographicfixed/

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