Drama and anguish in /r/mensrights when one of MRM leaders is quoted as saying "women are freaking begging for [rape]", in a thread about male rape victims (np.reddit.com)
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79 ups - 49 downs = 30 votes
105 comments submitted at 06:46:43 on Apr 25, 2014 by calderons
Meh. Paul Elam is a bit too egocentric for me.
Also he's kind of a dick.
> Also he's kind of a dick
Major understatement there. He's a terrible human being who has no business leading any type of movement
Completely off-topic, but I have to say something.
Your flair is adorable. What does it mean and how do I get one like it?
It's poppy, the popcorn mascot of SRD. You have to submit lots of drama, I think
> Meh. Paul Elam is a bit too egocentric for me.
Let's not beat around the bush, shall we?
Paul Elam is a narcissistic, hypocritical, hate-mongering manchild. He is exactly what he claims to hate: a gender ideologue.
> a gender ideologue.
:(
Yeah. There's an antifeminist I follow on Youtube who would have been a really really good MRA - but he won't call himself an MRA for that exact reason (Elam and JohnTheOther). I don't blame him.
>Yeah. There's an antifeminist I follow on Youtube who would have been a really really good MRA
Gross.
What is it about being pro-men's rights that requires being anti-women's rights? None of that "feminism =/= women's rights" BS, please. There is no modern day movement that addresses women's rights outside of feminism.
EDIT: Grammar
> being anti-women's rights
Oh my. You really do think being anti-feminist means being anti-womens rights?
Oh no. Oh lord no. Next you'll say I hate women, and thus hate my two sisters and my mother. /facepalm
Given your username, I don't think you are exactly being serious with me, but I'm not exactly sure why you would think that me, being an anti-feminist, would mean I am also anti-womens rights (apart from you trying to hand-waive me away).
So here is what I think would be smarter - you tell me a womens rights issue that you think I am against, and I'll let you know if I'm against it or not.
>None of that "feminism =/= women's rights" BS, please. There is no modern day movement that addresses women's rights outside of feminism.
Mmmmm.. I know that you would like to believe that, but it simply isn't true. Sorry?
^(Seriously, you shouldn't try to package toxic ideas like patriarchy with the right to aborting an unwanted fetus - you will do way way more damage to the pro-choice cause than most pro-lifers ever could)
>You really do think being anti-feminist means being anti-womens rights?
You know how Ayatollah Khomeini says he's not "anti-woman", he's just putting them in their natural place (where obviously they're happiest)?
You know how Red Pill posters say that they're not misogynist, they're just enforcing the way biology made us?
Yeah.
Not buying it.
Do you think I want to control women then? What did I ever do to give that impression ever?
Because with the two groups you listed the common theme is controlling other people. I'm not interested in controlling other peoples bodies.
Do you have any other better reasoning than that?
Well, you refuse to state the specifics of why you're anti-feminist and insist on obfuscating, instead. It's pretty easy to see why someone might think you're being disingenuous.
> you tell me a womens rights issue that you think I am against, and I'll let you know if I'm against it or not.
If you're not against any women's rights issues, then by what logic do you call yourself an anti-feminist?
>Seriously, you shouldn't try to package toxic ideas like patriarchy with the right to aborting an unwanted fetus - you will do way way more damage to the pro-choice cause than most pro-lifers ever could
Then you might want to talk to feminists who reject the notion of Patriarchy theory in favor of other social theories, such as Kyriarchy.
>If you're not against any women's rights issues, then by what logic do you call yourself an anti-feminist?
......
Are you serious?
You make an account specifically to poke fun of a group who is predominantly anti-feminist, and you don't even know why they are anti-feminist?
And honestly, I'd rather make it very clear that I don't hate women before I go into any of the reasons why I refuse to identify as a feminist, and even go so far as to call myself an anti-feminist in the year 2014. So again, I invite you to fire away any womens rights issues that you believe in, and we'll see whether I "meet the standard" of caring enough about women.
And do me a favor while you think of questions to question me with - sign this! http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/4537
Thanks!
>You make an account specifically to poke fun of a group who is predominantly anti-feminist, and you don't even know why they are anti-feminist?
Dodge the question, if you like. I don't know why you call yourself an anti-feminist, because I have had no interactions with you. Not sure why you find that surprising.
I'll ask again. What women's issues do you oppose, if any, and why do you call yourself an anti-feminist?
>And do me a favor while you think of questions to question me with - sign this! http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/4537
Already signed it, but thanks!
And ty for signing.
No lol. Burden of questioning is on you buddy. You tell me which issues you think I'd oppose.
Nope, not going to play guessing games with a stranger on the internet.
The burden of advancing your argument and explaining your position is yours, not mine.
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> Seriously, you shouldn't try to package toxic ideas like patriarchy with the right to aborting an unwanted fetus - you will do way way more damage to the pro-choice cause than most pro-lifers ever could
lol this is an mra saying this
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>Correct; Paul Elam is the perfect feminist.
lol
EDIT: Well, at least you edited in an actual argument to your post. Allow me to respond.
>Feminists and MRAs are entertaining, but not helpful.
Actually, feminists are out actually doing things to make the world a better place. Everything from running domestic violence shelters and homeless shelters to redefining the Federal definition of rape to include male victims and female perpetrators.
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I'm proud to be a feminist both on the internet and in the real world. If you honestly compare feminists to MRAs, then you've been drinking the MRA Kool-Aid.
You're right, though. Arguing about these issues on the internet does very little to help solve them. If you actually care about gender issues, then I encourage you to look for real-world activist initiatives in your area that are working on them.
I can almost guarantee you that none of them will be MRA organizations, though.
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>no really, you're just another nonsense spouting eccentric
Then prove me wrong, please. I'd love it if the MRM were working to help men instead of just fighting feminists on the internet and spreading anti-feminist propaganda.
EDIT: Wow, you are the master of ninja edits. Let the records show that when I replied to this person's post, the bit quoted above was the entirety of their post. I'm done responding to you, as I have a distinct suspicion that you're not being intellectually honest.
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> you'll grow out of this phase, most do
> you're half way there
> if you take the goggles off completely you'll see there's really no telling them apart
(The entirety of your post as if my reply.)
OK. Don't prove me wrong then. Just make condescending assertions with nothing to back them up.
As it so happens, I doubt I'll ever see the two movements as they currently exist to be the same, since I've actually been a part of real world feminist activism and have seen feminists working to help men, despite MRA claims to the contrary.
lol
>to redefining the Federal definition of rape to include male victims and female
Except it doesn't include male victims... at least not the vast majority of them.
Yes, it does. Read the FBI's reply to a letter that Tamen sent them.
I feel like if the MRM really wants to be taken seriously they need to find better spokesmen than Elam and Ferrall. Younger, more mainstream, less "extreme" in their views.
> I feel like if the MRM really wants to be taken seriously they need to find better spokesmen than Elam and Ferrall. Younger, more mainstream, less "extreme" in their views.
Everyone who qualifies for that label is already a feminist. It's the inherent problem with the MRM - it isolates and marginalizes moderate voices for the sake of paranoid anti-feminist propaganda.
Then how would they follow the white supremacist guidelines on recruiting angry, disaffected young males who need someone else to blame for their problems?
Warren isn't the worst in the world.
But seriously, there's no good MRM spokesmen. I suppose ex-Feminist Erin Prizzy kinda gets close but she's not active.
I don't know how much better she is. I remember her AMA in which she asserted that feminists are all mentally ill and had to majorly backpedal after she said that feminists killed her dog.
> and had to majorly backpedal after she said that feminists killed her dog.
It never stopped MRAs from continuously accusing feminists that it is their collective fault for that. Presumption of guilt and all that.
I think most people (MRM included) agree.
What the difference seems to be between people in that thread and "feminists"... is that one doesn't seem to think that a single statement made by a person then invalidates every other thing they have, or ever will say in their lifetime.
I know that. I agree.
I'm not concerned about "one single thing" he's said. I'm concerned about the trend he has been following for a while now.