Gay man has questions for /r/MensRights, but /r/MensRights doesn't really appreciate them. Accusations of trolling abound. Much more in full comments. (np.reddit.com)
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89 ups - 40 downs = 49 votes
197 comments submitted at 01:06:49 on Apr 9, 2014 by TheBaby-SittersCoven
As a bisexual guy who is staunchly against the entire mens rights movement (because it has nothing to do with mens rights and has everything to do with fear mongering to justify misogyny) I do agree with them at some level.
The "mens rights" movement has nothing to do with gay rights. Gay men are included but there is no reason to separate them or treat them differently.
I've seen people try and intersect gay rights into many issues that it is unrelated. Being gay only affects who you sleep with, that's it. It shouldn't affect other parts of your life.
I think a man wanting to marry another man affects your life plenty and is a clear mens rights issue as well as a gay issue.
Lesbians seem to have it easier then gay men. That's a mens issue, is it not?
Also since having sex with young girls seems to be a topic over there I don't see why gay mens issues shouldn't be. If stat rape is okay to talk about why is this not? The legalities of it all? That still doesn't answer the marriage question then.
"Being gay only affects who you sleep with, that's it. It shouldn't affect other parts of your life"
Except being gay does affect your life outside of who you sleep with. Hopefully there will be a time when someone's sexuality doesn't matter but for now it does.
It only affects your outside life if people are biggots or if you let it.
Being gay affects us as much as being Black or Asian affects people.
"Being gay affects us as much as being Black or Asian affects people"
So a lot then? Or am I missing something?
No, barely.
Having a different skin tone doesn't affect who you are. Unless you are insinuating that your race affects your intelligence, personality or other factors. Which would of course be incredibly racist.
I think we are just having a misunderstanding. I am saying your race and sexuality affects how other people view you which in turn has an impact on your life.
And I am saying how people view you does not affect who you are.
Therefore it doesn't really affect your life. Yes some people might treat you differently but no more than many groups are treated differently.
You live under a rock, don't you?
How we develop as individuals is absolutely influenced by how others treat us. No one lives in a vacuum.
You mean like with less rights? That kind of differently?
If you truly believe that how people view you doesn't impact your life, then would you say that black people living before the civil rights movement didn't have their lives impacted by their skin color? Because I would say that they definitely did.
It's a more extreme example than we typically see in our society today, but it still demonstrates that how other people perceive you can have a significant impact on your life.
> And I am saying how people view you does not affect who you are.
> Therefore it doesn't really affect your life.
wat
Unless you're raised in a vacuum or under a rock, being part of a minority group will affect your life. As will being part of a majority group.
I was raised in an area with both minorities and majority races. From the two groups I saw no difference in how they turned out based on overlying factors like their parents socio economic status.
Are you saying that the color of your skin somehow makes inherently different?
I would love to know what Utopian society you grew up in where skin color had no bearing on how people turned out?
Right, because you can speak to their experiences and their life.
My apologies for interjecting myself into this conversation all of a sudden, but I felt like I should weigh because there seems to be some confusion? I think both you and DeterminismMorality are actually agreeing just saying the same thing in a slightly different way. There doesn't seem to be a need for any correction.
You're both basically saying that being gay or of a minority race should and is only a negative thing when bigotry is involved rather than that particular trait negatively impacting that individual in and of itself .
I believe this is what you're both trying to get across, or am I somehow mistaken? There doesn't seem to be any reason for disagreement if I'm understanding you both correctly.
The problem is that there are way too many people who are still bigoted assholes and who actually have an effect on day-to-day life. That douchebag co-worker who joke about faggots all the time, those doctors who won't treat trans people, bullies in school, parents who throw their kids out, politicians who won't recognize gay marriage. This isn't a think positive and everything would be alright problem.
Being trans is a form of body dysmorphia and is a totally different issue. It is essentially a mental illness (and if you think that's an insult than you are bigoted) that's best cure is to change genders. This does affect your life.
So being bullied is basically it? Lot's of people are bullied. I fail to see how this is meant to turn me into one specific personality type.
Bullied people can become many different things. Bullies themselves, constant victims, it can simply not affect them and many more. The truth is that the results are so incredibly diverse that it doesn't really affect who you are in a meaningful broad way.
Lol wtf you are completely missing the point. There are doctors who will turn you away if you're are trans. They won't see you at all and there are way to many places with no laws protecting trans people. There are insurance companies that will force you to fucking jump through hoops and pay out your ass to change your gender. And gay people are much much more likely to be bullied like 75+% Tell me that bullies are indiscriminate. And what about marriage rights? Or how you can still get fired in states for being gay when other minority groups are protected? Will all this be solved with the power of positive thinking?
Homophobic assholes are everywhere, more so if you happen to live in a place that affords you no protection. They are your boss, your neighbor, your classmates. And some have power over you (like policians and storeowners and doctors and parets) And thinking about sunshine and rainbows won't make them go away
I think you have this weird misconception that "who you are" is the same as "what your experience in life is like." Sure, someone treating me like shit for being gay may not change my character, but uhh it's definitely affecting my life.