Bisexual drama in /r/gaybros when Tom Daley comes out as gay, no longer bisexual (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
209 ups - 63 downs = 146 votes
273 comments submitted at 15:51:29 on Apr 3, 2014 by btmc
Bisexual drama in /r/gaybros when Tom Daley comes out as gay, no longer bisexual (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
209 ups - 63 downs = 146 votes
273 comments submitted at 15:51:29 on Apr 3, 2014 by btmc
I think a lot of bi men think of themselves as straight and gay. I've heard bi guys say they are gay, because they don't think of gay as exclusively being attracted to guys but just being attracted to guys.
And I do know that a lot of gay guys want to come out as "gay lite" but it is still damaging to actual bi guys.
Eh.. I went through a period of terrible confusion myself. I discovered i wasn't straight by crushing hard on a random dude.
I now consider myself mostly bi. Somewhat panesexual.
It's complicated.
Pansexual isn't a thing if you also believe in bisexual. One doesn't exist while the other does. Pansexual just means you are bisexual but do not believe in a binary gender system.
Honestly I think pansexual is a stupid term, and even if you don't believe in a binary gender system you should still say bisexual. The origin of the word is meaningless.
But if you don't believe in a binary gender system then "bisexual" is a misnomer. Because it's implying there are only two gender expressions.
I also disagree with that asshole, but bisexual doesn't uphold a gender binary any more than terms like "straight" (being attracted to the other/the opposite gender also implies two genders), and it doesn't erase gender nonbinary folks any more than folks who identify as gay/straight men/women (being attracted to the same gender) who date nonbinary folks.
Pet peeve of mine - some people try to claim all bi folks need to identify as pan with an argument kind of similar to CANOODLING's.
Fuck this biphobic shit and can it please stop showing up everywhere.
NEVER has "bisexual" meant "male and female". This is a purely modern invention.
The "bi" in "bisexual" refers to being both homosexual - having a sexual attraction to members of one's own gender and heterosexual - having attraction to members of a gender different to one's own.
Historically the bisexual community has been one of the most accepting of non-binary genders.
I'm not trying to be biphobic, that was just what I understood bisexual to mean.
I realise that it was strongly worded, but the attack was on the idea itself, not you.
Technically, no its not, since bisexual as a term is based on attraction to sex, not abstract gender. The idea that gender overrides sex for these things is far newer than these terms are. And the amount of people who think that the terms are not about sex is far fewer than those who do.
Exactly. That is why you can't be somewhat pansexual or bisexual.
But that are thousands of misnomers in english. Chairmen aren't just men. Same with any word that ends with man or men.
I think it is unnecessary to confuse people with a new word and should instead just redefine bisexuality.
Wow, dude, way not cool. Weren't you just talking about the hate you get for being bi? Way to dish it right back out on somebody else.
If he says he is fucking wrench-sexual as long as he isn't hurting anybody just leave him right alone.
I'm not saying it's the worst thing in the world. Just that it is a contradiction.
Either respond with how he is hurting somebody with how he chooses to express which individuals he experiences sexual attraction to, or don't respond at all.
No, he made a statement that was impossible to be true. I won't not call out an incorrect statement in fear that I might hurt his feelings because I don't want to allow misinformation spread. You cannot be have both bisexuality and pansexuality be different things in the same reality.
If you were gonna just try to defend being an asshole, you shouldn't have responded. You just make yourself look worse.
If you were going to defend ignorance you shouldn't have responded.
You just made yourself look like an idiot.
But mostly I am confused on how so many people think that me saying that a word is meaningless makes me an asshole. I'm not saying that the sexuality is meaningless, but the word describing it.
You insulted somebody, called them stupid for using it, etc. If somebody says they're kappasexual and you have no fucking clue what it is, as long as they aren't hurting anybody you leave well enough alone.
It's assholes like you who give the LGBT community an intolerant name. We would do better without you pretending to be inclusive while attacking others for having a sexuality you don't understand, or heavens forbid identify as a concept you don't agree with.
And thank you for demonstrating the hate that people who don't identify with strict gender definations get.
Where did I express hate for people who don't identify with gender definitions?
> Honestly I think pansexual is a stupid term, and even if you don't believe in a binary gender system you should still say bisexual. The origin of the word is meaningless.
The way that you chose to describe a deep personal side of yourself is wrong and meaingless, stop it! It's not a thing!
the sexuality is not meaningless, the term is meaningless.
The sexuality existed long before the word came into existence, and I believe the word is not a good descriptor. Or are you claiming that the sexuality is new and was only recently invented?
I'm claiming that invaladating a term someone uses to describe them can easily be seen as an invaladation of the person themsleves.
And that it doesn't matter what term they use, Being obnoxous about it is just bein pendantic and doesn't help anything.
You may not approve of it, but the term is there. Consider this rant a varation on "We're here, we're queer, get used to it."
If someone uses a stupid phrase than I will call them out on it. Any reasonable person should be able to distinguish the difference between a phrase and their sexuality.
Your langauge is that of an idiot with sub par intelegence.
But that's OK, because I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the words that you're saying, right?
> If someone uses a stupid phrase than I will call them out on it.
How is this any different that the flack you get from people who don't believe in bisexuality?
I challenge you: Tell me how the fact he defines his sexuality as 'pansexual' is hurting somebody right now. And when you can't answer that, tell me why you get the right to care which word he chooses to define which types of people he is sexually attracted to.
Wow, I guess it goes to show what I said earlier. Even if somebody's progressive in one respect, they can still be a total bigot.
Edit: What a surprise, he didn't tell me how using the world 'pansexual' hurt anybody.
Well fuck you too, asshole.
What?
Don't tell people how they have to identify, that's straight up bullshit.
They are two identities that are the same thing. I was explaining that what he said didn't make sense because you can't be bisexual while not believing in a non binary gender system which he evidently does.
>you can't be bisexual while not believing in a non binary gender system which he evidently does.
Yes you can. Fuck you.
Instead of being a 4 year old and saying "fuck you" why don't you tell me how that makes any sense.
lol
Just stop claiming to be the authority on how people can and should identify.
fuck you. im pansexual. identity is complicated and that's the label i feel most comfortable in. don't be the identity police.
Honest question, what is the difference between the two? Most ways I hear it described I'm unsure of the difference.
Not saying there isn't one, I'm just fuzzy on it.
well a lot of it depends on who you ask, because pansexuality can mean different things to different people.
but usually bisexuality is defined as "being sexually attracted to men and women" OR "having both heterosexual and homosexual attractions"
the second definition is often emphasized by bisexual people who explicitly want to include people of non-binary gender identities, because hetero (or "different gender") attractions include people who are not of your gender. so this definition includes all genders.
but some bi people do only have attractions in the gender binary(which is something that is a cause of quite a bit of controversy).
pansexuality, at least to me, means i can be attracted to someone of any gender. does this mean i'm gender blind? no. does this mean i don't see different genders as different? no. does it mean i don't have preferences of any gender over any other gender? nope! i really enjoy this label, it feels like it just really fits, i can't 100% explain why i don't feel the same way about "bi". in that way, it's super complicated and maybe there isn't like a definitive, hard line difference between the two.
of course, the only person who can really describe what their identity means is that person, but these are just broad definitions.
(this turned out much longer than i expected sorry)
i hope this helps!
So, (and I could have this wrong, if so correct me), it seems like the basic difference is bisexual is attracted to men/women and pansexual doesn't care what gender you are?
basically, but some bisexual people are attracted to non-binary people.
I didn't say pansexuality didn't exist. It just can't coexist with bisexuality.
both are legitimate, real identities.
identity is super super complicated and sometimes multiples identities overlap in some ways. that's okay. that doesn't make those identities any less valid than any other ones. policing identity is a really shitty thing to do.
I'm not policing anyone's identity. I was simply saying that you can't consider yourself maybe pansexual or bi. The difference isn't how you feel but whether or not you accept multiple gender and pansexuality as an identity.
If you say yes to both than you are pansexual, if you say no to one than you are bisexual.
It's not that complicated.
people can simultaneously identify as pansexual and bi. that's the point i'm trying to make. bi sometimes feels like a broad label that people understand and then other middle of the spectrum sexualities kind of pinpoint more. some people feel this way and that's okay.
Yeah, I know how it goes--I've seen the biphobic assholes for myself--I've tried to cut back on bi-erasing language recently, just because I want to try to make a change.
> I've heard bi guys say they are gay, because they don't think of gay as exclusively being attracted to guys but just being attracted to guys.
I've always liked the terms prefix-sexual and prefix-romantic to cut back on that. For example, bi-sexual but homo-romantic, or homo-sexual but bi-romantic, or hetero-romantic and pan-sexual. They're usually very easy terms to explain, and you can easily identify yourself even if you don't feel like you fit in one small label.
> I've tried to cut back on bi-erasing language recently, just because I want to try to make a change.
Thank you. Every little bit helps.
Or you could stop spending too much time on Tumblr and realize no one gives the slightest fuck about the 8,000 different descriptors you invented for your particular sexual cravings?
I didn't know I'd invented them. Does this mean I get royalties? BRB copyrighting the terms.
Also how did you do in Math class? One extra prefix definitely isn't 8000 words--though it would make essays easier if that was the case. Oh, and the one word that actually isn't in common use... well... it doesn't describe sexual cravings at all. So. Yeah, there's that
Wasn't really meant to aim at you and your specific example (it was actually pretty manageable) more just letting out some general annoyance with the tons of silly words people come up with on Tumblr for every craving they have.
Really though gay, straight, bi, whatever is cool I'm just tired of people thinking they are being shamed or oppressed because no one wants to hear that they're a demiromantic pansexual or whatever other silly nonsense they want to share with people who are not in the mood to hear it.
You would be much more grateful for words that gave you a way to explain your sexuality if you had a sexuality that was not explained with a conventional word. Whether or not I think any words such as 'demi-romantic' are a useful addition, I would not question words people identify as, because it is clearly filling a need.
There's nothing worse than everybody but you having a label. There's nothing worse than having to give a long-winded speech about your sexual orientation just so people understand.
That's actually pretty clever, especially how the terms are pretty self-explanatory.