War is hell. Photos of war in Yugoslavia 1991-1995 (x-post r/Yugoslavia) NSFL (hvylya.org)

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1480 ups - 345 downs = 1135 votes

292 comments submitted at 12:50:23 on Mar 25, 2014 by cowpuncher

  • [-]
  • paraclete7
  • -15 Points
  • 23:21:40, 25 March

People need to realize that something isn't "ethnic cleansing" just because the UN or NATO says so.

Serbians targeted Srebrenica because of the militants hiding there. They weren't looking to ethnically cleanse Srebrenica, they targeted only the men and boys of fighting age. They did do wrong by doing that, and it was a crime and a violation of basic human rights, but it wasn't an ethnic cleansing.

We also conveniently forget the atrocities the Bosnians and Albanians committed against Serbs that spurred on Serbian aggression. It's sad to see how one sided our portrayal of the whole mess was. We even try to justify bombing Belgrade and killing innocent civilians.

  • [-]
  • kensai01
  • 16 Points
  • 23:34:38, 25 March

All you have to look at to see who the aggressor was is look at all the ruined Bosnian cities and realize that Serbian cities in comparison weren't touched. That and the fact that disproportionately more Bosnian civilians lost their lives compared to the Serbs.

Your type of rhetoric I hear a lot from apologists of the Serbian war crimes.

  • [-]
  • paraclete7
  • -6 Points
  • 23:47:15, 25 March

It was disproportionate because Serbia had the larger military. Had Bosnia had a larger, more advanced military, it'd be the Serbian Cities in ruins and the monuments to war crimes would be there.

Also, go visit Kosovo and tell me the Serbians were never victims of Muslim violence. Or even the area that is now Republika Srpska.

The Serbians had to suffer under the Muslim's oppressive rule for over 500 years and the Muslims didn't think that 500 years of oppression, violence and ethnic cleansing would come back to bite them?

  • [-]
  • Antonomon
  • 5 Points
  • 02:23:40, 26 March

> Also, go visit Kosovo and tell me the Serbians were never victims of Muslim violence. Or even the area that is now Republika Srpska.

Stop with this historical revisionism. Yes, atrocities are committed on both sides, but let's not forget who holds power by the handles nor let's make the foolish claim that both sides were equally violent. It's Serbian power that is dominant in the Balkans. And it was that way during the Kingdom of Yugoslavia when Serb's concentrated power in 1929 and it was like that during Tito's regime, especially after he died.

  • [-]
  • kensai01
  • 12 Points
  • 00:08:40, 26 March

You sound almost vengeful. I'm not religious at all because of that war. But we can argue what ifs all you want but the simple truth is is that Serbs did have the weapons and they used them with prejudice. If NATO didn't step in at all Serbs would have continued their genocide for sure. It's sad because they were all part of the same country and all along most of the Serbian people were supportive of the war. It's nuts because those countries are tiny, all the people there are the same except for religious beliefs and they slaughtered eachother. Its like Ohio warring with Michigan, we all know Michigan would steam roll Ohio but this would never happen because despite all the difference we all consider ourselves one nation. I'll never understand that stupid war, Yugoslavia was a great nation and now Croatia and Slovenia are doing fine, so is Serbia but Bosnia got fucked and things aren't even close to the same now.

  • [-]
  • paraclete7
  • -12 Points
  • 00:31:30, 26 March

Maybe Republika Srpska can finally break off of Bosnia and rejoin Serbia.

Vengeful? You realize what the Muslims did to all of our people in eastern and southeast Europe for 500-600 years? And we're supposed to just forget it all ever happened, and let the now ruined churches rot, even though they were there long before the Muslims arrived?

We've been denied the chance to regain our lands for the last 200 years because Europe hates us and our faith, eventually we will get them back and Islam's presence in southeast Europe will be a faded memory, lost to the past. Then, Bosnians and Serbs can truly be one again.

  • [-]
  • tuberosum
  • 12 Points
  • 02:01:34, 26 March

See, its exactly this kind of rhetoric that brought that war to fruition in the first place.

>You realize what the Muslims did to all of our people in eastern and southeast Europe for 500-600?

What exactly did they do? You're talking about the events of the 14th and 15th centuries like they happened yesterday. Hell, if you want to claim that the Ottomans were great oppressors till their very end, they still left the region in the latter part of the 19th century. That means that when Yugoslavia was formed as a country after WWII, there might have been a handful of octogenarians who were born in the last year of Ottoman presence in the Bosnia and Serbia.

Everyone who ever might have ever oppressed your ancestors or your people was long dead before the people who fought in the war in Bosnia were even born.

You're trying to portray the muslims as some bogeyman here, when they're not. Their religion is a scapegoat, something to use to tie them to some supposedly oppressive regime from time of yore to justify a campaign of ethnic cleansing and promote the crazy "greater Serbia" ideology that's all the rage with Serb nationalists.

  • [-]
  • kensai01
  • 6 Points
  • 03:09:25, 26 March

It's exactly that type of thinking that perpetuates wars and genocides like this. Do you realize that if nobody lets go it's inevitable for history to repeat itself. Who cares what happened 600 years ago, who in their right mind holds a grudge for so many generations. Did so many yugoslavians from all nations have to die because Muslims back 600 years ago committed atrocities for the same ignorant reasons?

  • [-]
  • paraclete7
  • -6 Points
  • 04:26:23, 26 March

It wasn't 600 years ago, it was perpetual, it was 600 years of continuous oppression, murder and ethnic cleansings. It was 600 years of enforced poverty and decimation of generations by forcing children to concert to Islam and enlisting males in the Ottoman military.

Thee is nothing wrong with Bosnians and Albanians as ethnic groups. The Bosnians are brothers to the Serbs and Croatians. Islam is the problem here, not ethnicity.

Islam just has no place in Europe, especially not southeast Europe and Orthodox lands.

It's time, after 600 years of continual oppression, that we take back what belongs to us.

Kosovo belongs to Serbia, as does Bosnia. It's the same for Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus and others, they all belong to Russia. Most of Turkey belongs to Greece and Armenia.

  • [-]
  • Antonomon
  • 9 Points
  • 02:34:16, 26 March

>Maybe Republika Srpska can finally break off of Bosnia and rejoin Serbia.

> Then, Bosnians and Serbs can truly be one again.

Translation: We will make all Bosnians "Serbs" by force and erase their history. In short, ethnic cleansing. We've heard this before, many many times.

  • [-]
  • DieMenschMaschine
  • 2 Points
  • 03:06:40, 26 March

Seems like you have it all figured out. So how would one go about making sure that Islam's presence in Southeast Europe becomes a faded memory? What's your big plan?

  • [-]
  • dashaaa
  • 7 Points
  • 00:19:58, 26 March

Why do you keep referring to them as Muslims? Why not just call them what they are, Bosnians?

  • [-]
  • tuberosum
  • 3 Points
  • 00:48:26, 26 March

Because in the local vernacular, a Bosnian is synonymous with Muslim. Granted, today its also a denominator of anyone with Bosnian citizenship, but during Yugoslav times, a Bosniak, or a Bosnian were terms only applied to Muslim residents of Bosnia.

  • [-]
  • paraclete7
  • -8 Points
  • 00:23:48, 26 March

Because that is what is different about them from Croatians and Serbians. Language and ethnicity, they are largely the same. Plus, I am including the Albanians and ethnic Turks when I use the term Muslim.

600-700 years ago, Albanians and many of the ancestors of "Bosnia" were all Christians. Then they either gave up their Christianity or were forced to by the Turks. The Turks are gone from the area now and they have no reason to stay Muslim anymore.

  • [-]
  • Heimdall2061
  • 10 Points
  • 00:40:29, 26 March

Well, no reason aside from that having been their religion for centuries.

  • [-]
  • dashaaa
  • 4 Points
  • 00:38:40, 26 March

1500 years ago, you were all pagans. Just give up all religion, whats the difference?

  • [-]
  • Kronic187
  • 1 Points
  • 09:21:08, 26 March

Before the ottomans conquered the region it was orthodox under the Byzantines for over 1000 years, would that make the genocide of orthodox Christians centuries later acceptable? What if the Austro-Hungarians managed to maintain control of the region, would that make it ok to slaughter Catholics? Communism tried to stamp out religion throughout Eastern Europe, should Romanians be massacring atheists?

  • [-]
  • tach
  • -7 Points
  • 23:39:20, 25 March

> All you have to look at to see who the aggressor was is look at all the ruined Bosnian cities and realize that Serbian cities in comparison weren't touched.

Logic fail.

All you have to look at to see who the aggressor was is look at all the ruined Japanese cities and realize that American cities in comparison weren't touched.

  • [-]
  • kensai01
  • -1 Points
  • 00:11:40, 26 March

Plus the aggressor in that war was Germany. The rest was a domino effect as more nations got involved.

  • [-]
  • kensai01
  • -6 Points
  • 00:10:18, 26 March

Yeah but... Potatoes vs oranges man the US used nukes.

  • [-]
  • tach
  • 2 Points
  • 00:30:15, 26 March
  1. The methods used do not have any bearing on the final results.
  2. Even if they had, you are frankly wrong about the overall effectiveness. In particular, the Tokyo firebombing was vastly more destructive than Hiroshime and Nagasaki.
  3. For a modern example, look into the Georgian aggresion and Russian response.
  • [-]
  • 10nix
  • 6 Points
  • 02:25:50, 26 March

Japan was the aggressor, they bombed the US.

WWII, US vs Japan was not a civil war, and you could not walk from one country to the other. Crossing the Pacific to mount an attack was a major logistical hurdle, and one that did not exist between Bosnia and Serbia.

You are making an apples to lug nuts comparison.