"New study says men find women more attractive with less makeup" "All the downvoting in this thread just proves that the women who are obsessed with makeup aren't just unattractive, they're petty bitches, too. No wonder no one likes them. " View the full comments for even more drama! (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
161 ups - 44 downs = 117 votes
243 comments submitted at 16:04:59 on Mar 23, 2014 by Bigmasterofgod
This is all such bullshit. Studies show that women don't like beards. When given the choice between fresh shaven or bearded, they choose fresh shaven, when given multiple length of hair options, they choose stubble (10 day growth was ideal)). But do people go onto /r/beards and tell them to shave? Or to trim down a full thick beard? Do they comment on every photo with a heavily bearded man how the majority of women won't find them attractive and they should trim it? And do they accuse the person of being unattractive and mean if they refuse and if others chirp in that the beard is awesome and he should do what he wants?
So why is it deemed acceptable to do this to ladies wearing makeup?
I don't know why men think women should accommodate their preferences by wearing less makeup.
I strongly prefer men without facial hair. So, the easy solution is to only date men who are clean shaven. Why would I ask a man with a beard to shave for me?
Likewise, I wear a lot of makeup. If a guy prefers the natural look, he should date a woman who wears little to no makeup. Because if he asks me to wear less to please him, I would never comply with that request, and I would breakup with him if we were dating.
That's pretty much how I handled the situation - I don't like the idea of makeup, so I dated then got engaged to a woman who hates wearing makeup, likewise she hates beards and I hate not being clean shaven. Asking someone to occasionally dress up because you're going out is one thing, but totally changing your everyday self is pretty untenable.
In other words, "It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about the things you don't like."
Because a lot of women look really different with makeup and some guys don't like it. It's cool that you like a lot of makeup but it's weird seeing a completely different girl after she takes a shower because of all the makeup being washed off.
Women actually regularly ask for men to shave their beards and maybe you need to learn what a stable relationship is because I find it hilarious that your so insecure, spoiled and dramatic that you would leave a guy if he asked you to wear less makeup.
Howbout you learn to talk things over with your partner. Iv asked my gf to wear less makeup and she's asked me to shave my beard. Were still together, amazing isn't it?
And just so you're aware, from my personal experience girls do look worse when they use A LOT of makeup. There's just something about a girl with a cake on her face that turns me and a lot of guys off. So maybe that bf is actually trying to help you.
God forbid communication actually happens in a relationship, do you frequent and give advice on r/relationship because they love telling people to breakup over the smallest things.
I'm not insecure, spoiled, or dramatic. I have a strict policy of not changing for a partner, though, and I would be offended if someone asked me to change something I like to please them. My appearance isn't up for debate or compromise.
And I wouldn't look at it as "helping", unless I asked for his opinion. If I put my makeup on a certain way, and don't ask someone for their opinion, I don't need their unsolicited advice.
Maybe I wouldn't completely break up with someone the first time, if they asked nicely. Though I would respond with a simple "no, I prefer it this way", and if he continued, then I would reevaluate the relationship.
Okay so let's recap your beliefs:
>I have a strict policy of not changing for a partner,
You believe that only your partner should change for you and you refuse to change for him.
>And I wouldn't look at it as "helping", unless I asked for his opinion.
Your partner is not allowed to share his opinion unless you ask for it, if he does share his opinion you'll take offence.
>I don't need their unsolicited advice.
Partner must stay quiet at all times and be afraid to share anything for fear you may take offense.
>Though I would respond with a simple "no, I prefer it this way", and if he continued, then I would reevaluate the relationship.
Any attempt to start a conversation about anything bothering him is quickly ended and if he tried to talk about something you dint like you would break up with him.
Sorry, maybe insecure and dramatic were the bad words to use. You're not that, you are however selfish, immature and completely full of yourself.
I wish you the best of luck with your future relationships, I can hear what your future boyfriends friends will be saying already "dude you're sticking your dick in crazy"
>You believe that only your partner should change for you and you refuse to change for him.
No, I wouldn't ask a partner to change for me. If I wasn't attracted to him, I wouldn't date him in the first place.
>Your partner is not allowed to share his opinion unless you ask for it, if he does share his opinion you'll take offence.
I don't want his opinion on my appearance unless I ask for it. If I ask, I wouldn't get offended at any response, unless he went out of his way to be insulting.
>Partner must stay quiet at all times and be afraid to share anything for fear you may take offense.
No, but if he starts asking me to change how I look, he shouldn't be shocked when I leave him.
I wish you the best of luck in your no doubt future abusive relationship and I sincerely pity whichever guy ends up falling in love for you for you will not doubt take advantage of him.
I'm magical at this shit, i was in an abusive relationship with a girl exactly like you once before.
Best of luck to you, don't be too mad at yourself once your bf realizes he doesn't need to take this shit anymore.
You think I'm abusive because I don't let people dictate how I look?
No that's not why your abusive. There's nothing wrong with that. It's everything else about you that just breeds abusive relationships.
Like I said best of luck to you. Just pray that your future bf doesn't snap one day and realize that he doesn't need to take your non sense.
What else about me do you consider abusive? It seems like to you, unless I make sacrifices to please men, I'm abusive.
And no one is forced to date me, or stay in a relationship with me. If someone gets tired of not being able to push me around, they can leave at any time.
More Comments - Click Here
People are more than their physical appearance. If you fell madly in love with a guy who happened to have a beard, would you just never pursue the relationship because it would be too rude to ask him to shave? Let's say you get married, still hate the beard, but you would rather just deal with it for the rest of your life rather than dare to comment on his vanity choices?
You have such a bizarre, superficial, unemotional outlook on relationships. Believe it or not people do change totally unimportant aspects of themselves, like their vanity choices, if they think it will make their partner happier or find them more attractive. Shaving a beard or wearing less makeup is not some sort of horrible life changing event. If you would really break up over that kind of thing, then you have a very unrealistic view of how most people act when in love.
Appearance is a huge part of your identity. Shaving a beard or wearing less makeup changes the way you look dramatically.
In regards to the beard, if he had one, I probably wouldn't be attracted to him in the first place. And I wouldn't fall madly in love with someone I wasn't attracted to. But if I did fall in love with him, and was attracted to him, the beard wouldn't be a problem.
I date people I'm already attracted to. I don't start dating someone, then hope they make enough changes to turn into someone I'm happy with.
I and most other guys I know go back and forth on their beard depending on what they feel like or how the weather has been recently. Lots of the time I just let it grow due to laziness. It's not even close to being a big part of my identity.
And I don't know if you realize this but people can be attracted to personalities and interests, not just physical appearance. In fact, personality compatibility is MUCH more important than anything else in how well a relationship is going to pan out in the long run.
But for some men, it is a big part of their identity. And for some women, wearing a certain makeup style is a big part of their identity.
And I can't speak for everyone, but for me, physical attractiveness is just as important as personality. Someone can have an excellent personality, but if I'm not attracted to them physically, I won't pursue a romantic relationship with them.
Hence why I said you have a superficial outlook. I guess that's fine for you but you shouldn't really be giving relationship advice. Most people can have their eye caught by physical attractiveness and maybe have a brief fling but for an actual relationship where you are going to spend most of your time with another person, the personality is a million times more important. I would never break up with someone just because they asked me to shave. To put it simply, that's unbelievably vain and self centered.
I guess you must be really good looking or something with people lining up to date you that you consider superficial changes to be completely out of the question. Seriously, thats maybe the worst "dealbreaker" I've ever heard.
I don't see how it's superficial to only date people you are attracted to. Would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you have no sexual attraction to? I'd be OK with doing that if we never had sex, and it was merely a partnership, someone to live with and maybe adopt kids and raise them, but if I'm going to be intimate with someone, I want to feel some degree of attraction to them.
You can be physically attracted to someone beyond their choices of beards or makeup. And you can think someone you find attractive would be EVEN MORE attractive if their vanity options matched your preferences. It can be other things than beards or makeup. For example glasses vs contacts.
You seem to think that these vanity choices are a huge part of everyone's identity but I think most people understand that they are superficial options that you can change at will and that your romantic partner does get to have an opinion on. Whether you do something about it or not is ultimately your choice but you would just break up with someone for having such an opinion.
Seriously, imagine you are dating Christian Bale or Johnny Depp or something. I assume you would find them attractive. These guys sometimes wear beards and sometimes not. If he asked you which you preferred would you just refuse to answer.
But there are physical traits that are a complete turn off for some people. For me, beards are one of them. They cover too much of the face, I find a clean shaven face with good cheekbones and a jawline very sexy.
I think Johnny Depp is very attractive, and he's one of the few people who look good with facial hair, mostly because he only has some facial hair when he does have it, he doesn't have a full beard. If he asked, I would be honest and say I prefer him without. If he didn't ask, I would date him with or without the facial hair, because I think he's attractive either way.
More Comments - Click Here
Don't you understand? Having a beard or wearing makeup is literally a part of your identity that cannot possibly be changed without producing years and years of resentment.
It's been posted to /r/offbeat, not any of the make up subs, or any of the women's subs, like twoXchromosomes or whatever. So I really fail to see the point of your comment, at least in this particular instance. Maybe wait until a MUA thread hits the front page and someone comes into that to say the before picture looked better :p
It's almost like that user dint even read the thread. They just saw the link and ranted on assumptions. And people actually upvoted it???
SRD has changed so much in the last year. Too many people here trying to spread their point of view and not enough just sitting down enjoying popcorn.
Let's be honest, this thread has some very atypical voting patterns. I wouldn't be surprised to see the votes flip within the next 12 hours - it's fairly obvious this has drawn attention from people who wouldn't normally post, as most gendered drama does.
Would it be so weird if some people here just disagreed with you about this? Because it sounds like I probably voted differently than you did, and I didn't come with any brigade.
People get paranoid whenever the sub goes in another way than they think, and there's always someone blamed, whether it is SRS or SRSsucks, or MR or AMR. or any other acronym.
If there weren't piles of other circlejerks going on in this thread, then I'd agree with you. The "females" jerk is a pretty good indicator that there's a brigade going on. People are getting double digit downvotes for challenging it.
You can tell when a brigade happens when the thread has twice as many comments as votes.
You could say it's getting a little.... Social justicy in these threads that relate to females, gays etc.
But for real. I remember the days when gaga was a mod and that stupid SRS bot followed SRD around telling everyone about the thread. Those were the good days of SRD, it's not even fun to come here anymore.
The popcorn is stale these days
If it's not fun then why do you stick around?
Every once in a while there's a thread that's great.
I still goto r/nfl during the off season because there's some good things here and there.
I think there are just a lot of angry SRSSucks folks who don't like it that SRD isn't their summer home anymore. I'd rather both sides of SJW war find a new hobby.
It became shitty when the circlebroke mods were added around this time a year ago. Now the place is just a giant social justicy circlejerk and every thread is infested with people from SRS and their friends from IRC. It was telling that this subreddit couldn't go a day without its SJ circlejerk when someone had to post MRA drama from a year ago because they apparently couldn't find any fresh drama to circlejerk over.
http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/20rwef/classicdramainrmensrightswhenauserwritesa/
> females, gays
lol
It does kinda seem like this place is just a continuation of the original threads now. I already deleted one account because I wanted to get away from people being hugely polarised on issues like these, and it's just happening everywhere I go. Eh, I'll give it a fortnight but if it keeps getting like this here, I'll probably throw this account too.
Post a popular opinion feigning it to be an unpopular opinion.
Watch the karma roll in.
srd used to be good maaaan
eternal september maan
see you in r/truecenturydepthhubreboooted
Iv seen some things mannnnnn
Those boys in /r/canada had no idea what was coming to em when they crusaded against davidreich. THEY DINT DESERVE THE BANS MANNNNNNN
I'm not sure how posting two studies that were almost identically set up as the submitted link's but comparing pictures of men and asking which women prefered is evidence that not only did I not read the thread, but I didn't read the linked article the thread was about. It's almost like you didn't read my comment or the link and just ranted on assumptions?
I agree with you that I didn't just sit and enjoy the popcorn. As I said to another commenter, I like srd not just for the drama but also for the discussions the linked drama incites. It's usually about random topics that I don't know a lot about, or that I haven't been forced to think about, and I enjoy learning. But I can understand how someone would rather this sub just be about drama. To each their own.
No one has a problem with the studies you linked. No one cares about that. But your comment is implying that people posted that research in makeupaddiction and other female subreddits when that never happened.
Then you go on to say that it's bullshit cause you don't see people posting those beard studies in male subreddits but no one posted anything in a female orientated subreddit in the first place.
I did read your comment. It still makes no sense.
When I wrote my comment the main comments on this thread (and had been upvoted) were all about linking to /r/mua and the mua discussions from the thread. That was the context from which I commented. Those have since been more downvoted or commented on so, as this thread looks now, my comment doesn't make as much sense.
Nothing wrong with the original link, the drama is in the comments
When I posted, there weren't many comments here and the top were:
> "We don't care what you think but your opinion makes you a complete asshole" - MUA.
> Someone needs to x-post to /r/MakeupAddiction[1] for maximum popcorn. > >
And then the link to the discussion of /r/MUA from the linked drama.
This is also not the first time the whole makeup discussion has come up on reddit and ultimately I think it's ridiculous. I commented here because often this sub is where people come back and discuss the drama usually in a more thoughtful, less antagonistic way. While I enjoy the drama, I prefer hearing people's point of view outside the original thread in order to hear some thoughts that are somewhat removed from the emotions that caused the drama.
I also didn't want to piss in the popcorn by commenting in the thread because that is against this sub's rules, so I figured I would post it here and maybe get other people's thoughts. Trust me, I wanted to post it in the actual discussion, but that's not what we do.
Finally, much of my point was that this discussion isn't just inappropriate when brought up in r/MUA or xxchromosones or whatever. This comes up often from random pics of girls where their makeup has nothing to do with the context of the picture, but it is usually commented on. One of my points is when a similarly random picture of a guy who happens to have a beard comes up people don't immediately comment that his beard will not attract the majority of women and that they should shave it. Women don't usually comment that they don't prefer a beard and therefore they should change. So why the discrepancy?
because feeeeeeemales exist only to appease Alpha Males. Duh.
Ahh yes I've arrived just in time for the SRS circlejerk.
> feeeeeeemales
There's the giveaway.
You also post in /r/againstmensrights so we have circlejerk confirmation.
This is one of the most obviously brigaded SRD threads I've ever seen.
its only been up for an hour too, what do they have an irc offsite to coordinate this?
lol yes. They brigade the fuck out of this subreddit every week. It gets brigaded from SRS IRC and some SRSers sit in the SRD IRC and brigade from there.
No; the Vast SRS Conspiracy just gets tip-offs on this sort of thing from the Lizard People.
Seriously, what the fuck is going on here ?
Can the mods/admins to something about this ?
Has it been linked anywhere?
> Ahh yes I've arrived just in time for the SRS circle jerk.
> You also post in /r/againstmensrights
Not agreeing with the totally reasonable people in /r/mensrights? Gotta be SRS.
Guis Im here for the cunt-flickling too! I didnt shave my legs. Let's get this party started!
"Men are such pigs! They treat my attempts at being artificial as something to be superficial about. Scum!"
"females" is a real word and not the dog whistle srsters make it out to be.
Edit: Seriously though, to all the people downvoting me: you're wrong.
I respect your Ferengi heritage.
Had to look up "Ferengi", from wikipedia:
>The Ferengi /fəˈrɛŋɡi/ are a fictional extraterrestrial race from the Star Trek universe. They first appeared in "The Last Outpost", the fifth episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation in 1987, during which they made first contact with the United Federation of Planets in 2364 on the planet Delphi Ardu, though they had been mentioned in the series' pilot, "Encounter at Farpoint". They and their culture are characterized by a mercantile obsession with profit and trade, and their constant efforts to swindle unwary customers into unfair deals. They are also known for their business acumen and for rampant misogyny. They also sometimes force their women into the sex trade.
So is this a way to say you think I am misogynist? And if so, I guess you're joking? Is that a phrase from the show? I'm not really familiar with Star Trek references except that William Shatner yelled "Khan" once for some reason.
He was angry because Khan stole his last slice of pizza even after telling Khan in no uncertain terms that that slice was off limits to all those except James Tiberius Kirk.
You know what Kirk should have said?
>You're fucking kidding me, Khan. How many times have we given you a pass on this shit? Stealing pizza like it's funny and happy and NBD and totes cool? This isn't funny, it isn't cute, and it's not going to be fucking tolerated anymore. If I see another slice of pizza stolen by Khan, you'll never post or comment here ever again, and that is a personal fucking promise from me. This is so, so, so not fucking cool. This isn't the first time I've brought this up to you, but it's the fucking last time. Do you fucking get that?
Ferengi liked to refer to women as "females" (often elongated, as in "feeemales") in everyday conversation, just like pretty much no-one else in the world except redditors.
>Ferengi liked to refer to women as "females" (often elongated, as in "feeemales") in everyday conversation,
Well that explains a lot, thanks.
> just like pretty much no-one else in the world except redditors.
This is not true. People use the word female in everyday conversation as well.
What are they wrong about?
Females in many contexts is used to dehumanize, to other the gender that is the exact same species as you. Were all well aware that it's a real word.
People use the words "women" and "girls" too when expressing prejudice against women. My point is that people use the word "females" in non-misogynistic contexts to refer to themselves, their partners, their loved ones, their friends, their neighbors, etc. It just isn't as tainted as SRS would like it to be for some reason, and I see their insistence that it be seen that way as misanthropic at best.
> My point is that people use the word "females" in non-misogynistic contexts to refer to themselves
"Hello, I'm a perfectly normal earth-female."
It's not actually particularly common to refer to oneself as female (or male) in everyday conservation; most people say woman or man.
Those neckbeards don't know how lucky they are to never have their facial hair criticized.
DAE any facial hair is a neckbeard
Well possibly because beards just grow naturally and putting on makeup is an artificial and time consuming process. Also nobody is pretending that beards make you more attractive to women.
Whether you like it or not, the primary purpose of makeup is to make women look more attractive to men. If we lived in a woman dominated society where women werent seen as sex objects I dont think makeup would have even been invented.
I don't wear makeup to please men. I wear it because I like the way I look with makeup.
But you can't see yourself. What you like is the feeling of standing out or looking good. Its nothing to be ashamed of, it doesnt make you a "slut". This is why people buy fancy tailored clothes or get nice haircuts or take care of their skin. If you lived totally alone with no contact with people, nobody would care about all that. But pretending otherwise is just that, pretending.
Do you actually think this kind of stuff or do you just shit post because you are bored?
Do you have any sort of actual evidence towards the opposite? Or are we just pretending the world is the way we wish it was whenever the subject of makeup comes up on the internet?
I own a mirror, I know what I look like.
And actually, I do my hair and makeup and put on nice clothes, even if I'm not leaving the house that day.
I'd think you do it in case you leave later or someone comes over? or is it just habit?
Mostly it's a habit, but I would feel lazy if I didn't do my hair and makeup, since it's something I do every day.
Although there are very few days I never leave the house at all, unless there's a hurricane or something going on outside.
I like that it is apparently implied that every person everywhere is insecure, and all concerns over appearances are due to a need to be noticed by others.
And here I thought the fact that I changed my underwear daily was because I like wearing clean clothes...
I guess make-up is so foreign to some people that they cannot conceive of wearing it solely for oneself, or at least without meaningful consideration of how others will react?
I wear make up too look good for myself, when I catch glimpses of myself in mirrors. I don't wear it specifically to look good for men, and I think that's an important distinction.
> But you can't see yourself.
Ah, I see the point of confusion. You're posting from before mirrors were invented, around 8,000 years ago.
This is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Growing armpit hair is natural, yet reddit throws a hissy fit if they see a girl with armpit hair.
She's supposed to have naturally flawless skin and naturally hairless pits!
>the primary purpose of makeup is to make women look more attractive to men
NOPE. Makeup is about the individual wearing it, be it a man or a woman.
Right and what gender has historically been the one to wear makeup? Women. Who is makeup overwhelmingly marketed towards? Women. How many men do you seriously think wear makeup vs women on an average day? Like I said, fantasy land.
But I guess we have to pretend that makeup is gender neutral and not intended to make the wearer sexier, because otherwise we have to face the cognitive dissonance of women happily "oppressing" themselves every day.
Historically, women have been the ones to wear makeup, yes, I do think makeup should be gender-neutral. It's unfair that it's marketed to women. If a man wants to wear makeup, he should be able to.
Makeup is oppressive to the extent that only women are encouraged to wear it. They're not obligated to and should they be judged by others, it says more about the person doing the judging.
That's why I've said fantasy land so many times. In an ideal world with no gender based divisions, society can be whatever you want. But in our Western society that we live in in 2014, the purpose of makeup is what I have described.
Lesbians exist. Lesbians who wear makeup also exist.
That's such a facile counterpoint. Lesbians are what like 2% of the population and were only really accepted by society recently. Meanwhile makeup has been around for literally millenia and has always been used as a way for women to enhance their beauty to attract people to them which are going to be 98% men. There are a few men who wear makeup too, but that doesn't invalidate that their primary purpose is to make women look more attractive to men. There's nothing wrong with that, but if you disagree, I swear you are living in a fantasy land.
I'm guessing SRS got wind of this thread because "lesbians exist" is such a dumb counterargument that only they could have upvoted it so much.
>That's such a facile counterpoint. Lesbians are what like 2% of the population and were only really accepted by society recently.
Just because they weren't socially accepted, doesn't mean they didn't exist and wear make up before that.
Do you guys not know how to read? I'm talking about the primary purpose of makeup. I'm sure some people jack off with mascara brushes, that doesn't make that their primary purpose.
Yes only SRS could disagree with your comment. What else has SRS done today? Kicked some little boys in the nuts?
Nice strawman bro. When posts like this are heavily upvoted then its safe to say there's probably some sort of SRS brigade going on. Oh right, SRS doesn't ever brigade, just like SRD lol.
Okay
I don't see any SRS or AMR links, hell even meta_bot wouldn't cause the thread to be like this.
Where's the brigade?
So... I'm not SRS. And I'm a lesbian who wears makeup. Evidently I don't exist. And before you say I'm brigading, I post here more than you do.
Just like all things, makeup is way more complicated and personal than "giving dudes boners."
Does your unique insight as a makeup-wearing lesbian tell you what the word "primary" means?
I'll use it in some more sentences for you.
You're trying to argue that something that could be considered a beauty standard or fashion trend is primarily a function of what men like, with the purpose being to attract men.
Do you, like, live in the real world? Because beauty standards and fashion have a hell of a lot more to do with, I don't know, workplace dress codes and non-verbal signifiers of class or clique than they do with mindless monkey sex.
Maybe people just think your comments suck
I wear makeup because it's a fun hobby. I don't care whether or not anyone thinks I'm attractive with it on.
Yeah you do, lol.
The statement "I don't care whether anyone thinks I'm attractive" is basically never true
Oh shut up.
If you thought makeup actively made you uglier, if it made people avoid you or dislike you, would you wear it?
That's a really good question actually. The thing is, though, that it isn't about being attractive to other people, it's about being attractive to yourself. About being able to play with your features and try different techniques on them. If I thought makeup made me look uglier, then I wouldn't wear it. But if other people did think I looked uglier and I still thought it made me look attractive to myself I wouldn't give a shit and keep wearing it. I'm sure people sometimes look at me now and think, "why is she wearing so much makeup?" But that has never stopped me and it still won't.
I hope that makes sense! I'd also like to mention that I do think I look good without it, it's just that it really is a hobby I enjoy and that also just happens makes me feel and look good. I mean, does anybody have a hobby that doesn't make them feel good? I like buying and reviewing new products, trying new techniques and eyeshadows. I like looking up tutorials and talking about it with others who love it too. It's really just a hobby like collecting and playing Magic The Gathering is a hobby, and I hope people can understand that.
Yes.
Nah, I am pretty sure you are being dishonest because you're insulted by my line of thinking.
Okay. You go on thinking that.
I challenge you to rub some makeup that looks like human feces all over your face for the next week. Let me know how your self esteem fares when you literally look like shit. Maybe wear some comfortable but really baggy and unflattering clothes too. I'm sure you would have no problem doing this, because you don't care how you're perceived by others.
More Comments - Click Here
Stand back everyone, this guy is a mind-reader! /s.
A lot of women do style themselves in ways that straight men are very adamant about disliking. See high-waisted shorts. See winged eye-liner.