Is selling someone a photo of an Xbox for £450 ($750) a scam? A surprising number of people on /r/nottheonion defend the seller. Ridiculous analogies come thick and fast. (np.reddit.com)
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316 ups - 99 downs = 217 votes
217 comments submitted at 11:59:22 on Dec 6, 2013 by blorg
Disclaimer: I don't know English law and I'm also not a contracts/transactional attorney.
However, IIRC, just because the scammer put the word "photo" in the title doesn't necessarily obviate a breach of contract. A Court would ask "if a reasonable person saw this ad, would think think they were buying a photo of an x-box?" And they'd consider a number of factors, including the price of the listing, where it was listed, the seller's feedback, the description (I doubt the description say "this is only a picture, you are not buying an actual x-box"). Hell, seeing photo in the title could just mean the seller put up a photo of the product for you to see it's real.
And based on these factors a Court could also find fraud since it's pretty clearly an intentional misrepresentation, even with the word "picture" in the title. No one puts up these ads without the intention of tricking people into thinking they're buying the actual product.
I actually saw a Judge Judy episode where this happened and she immediately sided with the buyer, citing a similar law.
Ebay and Judge Judy
Holy crap. I don't care for Judge Judy all that much but this was incredibly satisfying. She completely destroyed that woman.
That being said, Judge Judy isn't real court. Its private arbitration. Unless I'm mistaken she has no obligation to actually follow the legal books exactly.
Yes but she (is supposed to) follow the laws of the plaintiff/defendant's state.
Obviously she follows it generally, but in my admittedly limited viewings, it seems like there are liberties taken. It might just be her decorum that makes it seem that way though.
I wonder if any studies have tackled how well it meets real court outcomes.
Came here to say that this is fraudulent misrepresentation. No reasonable person would buy a photo of an xbox one for 450 bucks, unless the fact that it was a photo was VERY obviously stated.
>unless the fact that it was a photo was VERY obviously stated.
Or if the photo had a value of 450.
Again they usually are in the ebay ads because there was a big flap over it in the past.
IANAL: It's called a Moron in a Hurry or passing off and is a very common defence against copyright infringement on products.
*edit: extra reference.
>I ANAL
Hey bby wanna kiss?
Don't come here with your fancy reasonable thoughts. We don't do that stuff here on reddit.
It is against the Ebay TOS to pull stuff like this though.
Actually a lot of them do say "BOX ONLY." so I feel like sympathy for the idiots spending too mcuh moeny on it.
Also I thought that that was against Ebay ToS anyway?
X BOXES ONLY!!!
^^^^You ^^^^are ^^^^bidding ^^^^on ^^^^X ^^^^number ^^^^of ^^^^boxes. ^^^^However ^^^^many ^^^^I ^^^^have ^^^^on ^^^^hand ^^^^will ^^^^be ^^^^shipped ^^^^to ^^^^the ^^^^winner ^^^^of ^^^^this ^^^^auction.
I could see them thinking that just means the console rather than console and controllers etc
It is against eBay policy to post photos-of of the box alone.
Source: I'm an avid ebayer.
Scamming gullible, uninformed, or low-intelligence people is still scamming.
No, because everyone getting scammed who's not me is dumb and deserves it, when I get scammed it's because the person is an evil banker thief of some sort.
To be fair, in the article the guy that bought it said he knew it was a listing for a picture of an XBox, then proceeded to buy it anyways because he thought it must include a real XBox and that the listing was wrong. A fool and his money are soon parted, you shouldn't throw up that much of your hard-earned money without reading the paragraph first. And if you do read the paragraph and put up that much money for a listing of a picture on good faith that someone will include an XBox too, maybe you don't deserve that money. You most likely would have bought stock in Blockbuster or shot up heroin with it, or possibly some equally terrible decision.
To be fair, it's still a scam.
Nothing you said means anything. A scam's a scam and people like that should be stopped. No one cares why you think someone deserves to be scammed.
I never said anyone deserves to be scammed, but if you're not enough of an adult to manage your money, I can't feel sorry for you. I would feel differently if he didn't admit to reading that it was a picture of an XBox before bidding.
>evil banker thief
You meant jew didn't you. I knew it! I should totally get all offended now!
Something similar happened to me. I bought an alienware laptop with Windows 8. The rub was the seller took a laptop from the 90s, and put Windows 8 on it, but fooled me with the listing to think it was new. I lost my money, eBay and PayPal told me to shove it. Live and learn.
Throw more of a hissy fit. Ebay loves to side with buyers.
It was about 6 months ago, I just resigned to not use eBay or PayPal again.
For big purchases use credit cards through PayPal, especially AmEx. I know credit cards can be evil but they also side with you in matters like these, if PayPal refused your claim then you could do a charge back through AmEx and tell them to shove it. 'Course they might shut down your ebay account but you'd keep your money and tell them to fuck themselves at least. No personal experience but friends and people in that thread dealt with it that way.
I know reddit has a hate-boner for credit cards and debt, but I love Amex.
They have gotten me out of so many scams, bad purchasing decisions with barely-legal fine print, and internet switcheroos. I had my entire wallet stolen a year ago, and all my other cards took days to clean up the mess, and some of them would only cover 50% of what was taken.
Amex was like "relax, we got this" and refunded $4000 of charges like it was no big thing.
Plus, the rewards are fucking crazy. I've switched flights at the last minute, and instead of paying for it, gotten upgraded. I've paid for rental cars in full and all sorts of things, just for running what I'd normally spend through my card.
As long as you intend to keep your balances low, credit card companies are always going to be so, so, so much more interested in preventing fraud and theft than your actual bank. It's worth it to keep one open and in use.
Don't know why you're downvoted.
Credit cards are just wonderful tools in a sea of crap.
Because reddit is full of teenagers who don't understand that "lol, don't go into debt" isn't a viable financial plan.
You're going to go into debt. Trust me. And if your own financial plan is some bullshit black and white thing about debt, you might make some shitty decision down the road to avoid $500 in debt that could have landed you a sweet car over some piece of shit beater.
Example: I spent less than $1500 in interest over a 6-year car loan for a very, very nice car that has cost me $0 in repairs (and ~$50 every six months for maintenance) in the five years I've had it. If I had only used the cash I had on hand, I would be back in the same situation I was in before: repairing a beater at the tune of $1000 every six months.
But I'm not stupid: I bought a soccer mom car with a large down payment and paid it off faster when I could afford to.
If you can afford it, buy a house instead of renting. Just don't buy too much of a house. If you can afford it, buy a good car with a low-interest low-principal loan instead of buying a high-mileage POS with cash that you're going to have to repair a lot in two years. Run your expenses through a credit card and pay it off at the end of the month. If you keep $500 on it during leaner months and pay it off in richer months, so be it. Make sure you get your points and your rewards, and it'll be worth it.
And don't be a shithead and default on your student loans like I did. Swallow your pride and ask someone for help.
Yep.
That, and Amex Gold. That glorious 4% cash back is awesome.
Wait, the Amex Gold card is 1 point per dollar spent, unless its travel. How are you getting 4% cash back?
Jesus Christ, can I hire you to talk to my husband? We are young, married right after college, and have only been living together for about three years, but any time the word "credit card" comes up, he throws a fit about not wanting to "drown in debt". Now, this isn't me being a shop-a-holic wife wanting to buy a mountain of name brand shoes and slap it on the charge card, this is me arguing with my husband for two years to help me buy a decent car that won't blow up on me. I drove a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan with 250,000 miles on it for seven years, spending all sorts of money in upkeep. Yet it wasn't until 3 months ago that he finally saw the financial value in buying a new car that won't bust rather than spending money in towing AND repairs every time the wagon broke down.
We both grew up with families (specifically mothers) that did not mind crushing debt and charged everything they could...I developed an anxiety when dealing with finances, and he developed an obsessive hoarding tendency with money, so we can never get anything we need and instead have to tough it out. I love him, but it's frustrating sometimes...
For the car, that's just because you were doing it wrong.
The disposable car plan:
1.) Buy cheap beater car with fresh inspection ($300-600)
2.) Drive it until first major repair or inspection (6-12 months)
3.) Don't fix it, instead scrap at junkyard for $100-200
4.) Buy another cheap beater car. (Pro mode: have a second beater as backup)
Yearly cost of car ownership: $200-600
That's still a lot of work. You have to live someplace where you can park two cars. Big city or an apartment won't let you do that, without paying through the nose. If you work and go to school, the cost of the time to find those beaters is quite the sink. And you're not factoring in car insurance, and how you have to constantly change your policy every time you have a new car, and the cost of insuring two cars. Unless you're not insured, which is illegal. And those beaters don't get the gas mileage newer cars do, or the reliability, which is key if you are extremely busy and drive a lot.
Some people would rather spend a bit more for the reliability, and have some left over afterwards to put in a new car. Your "cost" doesn't account for those hidden costs -- gas mileage, insurance, time, and parking.
> Yearly cost of car ownership: $200-600
+ the time you have to spend riding your bike after your car breaks down + the time to buy a "new" beater (finding a running car for $600 is not as easy as you make it out to be).
They are also necessary tools in building a credit rating in a world where having a decent credit rating is everything. Some places won't even rent to you if your credit rating is too low, not the "I defaulted" too low, the "I have never bothered to build a credit rating" too low. They are looking for proof that you pay your bills. Just get a card and pay it off in it's entirety every month.
Yah, just out of curiousity.. how's your credit rating?
Last time I had one my dad had to co-sign to get it for me. Never again..
Fucking terrible. Defaulted twice on my student loans. Prolifetip: don't do that. Declare bankruptcy. Commit a felony. Foreclose on your house. Nothing follows you as long as your student loans.
Lucky me, I still have the interest rate I had when I opened the card. If I walked into a bank now, even with my debt-to-income ratio, they'll all shutter their windows and turn their backs.
Um. .Bankruptcy won't cover student loans.
The idea is to prevent people from taking four years and then ditching. It's BS but there you go.
But yah, other than that I agree with you, totally.
I wasn't saying it did. I was more listing things that are higher on the "better life plans" scale than defaulting on your student loans. Which is basically everything but murder and flushing all your money down the toilet.
Actually, jury's out on that second one.
> some of them would only cover 50% of what was taken
What? If you report it immediately you legally owe them jack squat.
Ahh okay. I rarely come across a case where eBay doesn't side with the buyers.
Seller ships the wrong item, buyer must pay to return wrong item for a refund.
Ebay sides with the seller.
Not that it never happens, but it's rare. eBay usually sides with the buyer. And buyers can leave negative feedback on buyers, but sellers can't. That should tell you everything you need to know about the power balance. Buyers extort sellers all the time.
That's unfortunate because you could have fairly easily gotten your money back, through ebay, Paypal, or your CC.
Pretty much every laptop on eBay is one of these things. Look at the pictures. They are all scams. They even lurk their own auctions to shill bids to get the price rising, so you're consistently paying $200 or more for a useless doorstop.
Pretty sure they are all electronic salvahe from dumpsites that someone picks up and brings to a warehouse to have people swap cheap parts into and resell on eBay as new hardware.
Yup, people often buy laptops and switch out the parts with shit ones, sell that, then sell the good parts separately.
There are also buyers that do the same thing and ask for a refund for whatever reason. Ebay is full of terrible people.
Source: I work at a recycling company that sells on ebay. I try hard to be VERY specific about what I am selling, and still have to deal with morons.
I bought a router on EBay where the internal flash memory was completely defective. There was no way it was working when it was posted, despite what the poster said. Other defective hardware led to a several month long argument with the seller with nasty ratings going back and forth that had to end, unhappily, in EBay's dispute resolution. They led me to avoid buying from EBay unless I'm either desperate or the seller has a super high approval rating. It's just too easy for people to scam, describe inaccurately, or dump their otherwise trash.
Selling a photo, however, is reserved for another level of hell.
People can really suck. This type of thing happens all the time when a new hot product comes out. I don't understand consoles any way. Pc games cost much less.
Being a gamer on every platform, each has it's merits. But what I've learned from trying to chase a better deal on anything, consoles, computer parts, games, etc, is typically when it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
I learned that the hard way, but yeah you are exactly right.
That's not similar, that guy completely lied about the product. These ebay 'scammers' aren't lying -- it literally says box only or photo only.
I can't defend people who actually buy after seeing those things in the title of the thing they're buying.
I'm sorry that happened but there is an obvious difference between a laptop that was older than you expected and a photo of one.
I'm presuming the seller didn't claim any specs that were untrue. Was it misleading in some way besides having Windows 8 on it?
Were there not photos or a model number?
He showed a picture of a more current machine, and sent me a 60lb monstrosity. I ended up getting a laptop from best buy so it all worked out for the best. Still lost money, but you can't be bitter.
You should have filed a claim with eBay immediately, there would have been no question who they sided with and would have ripped the sellers account down.
It wouldn't stop them from making another account and continuing to scam others, but all of their current auctions would be removed and those buyers bidding wouldn't be subject to the scam.
They should have sided with you in that case, I'm surprised they didn't. They are very clear that photos must match the item and any item that is not new must use photos of the actual item.
Lesson: don't buy electornics on ebay.
I've successfully bought electronics on eBay. It almost seems like you are arguing anyone who buys anything on eBay in the first place is an idiot for doing so and deserves to get scammed.
It's not a hard concept. If you go in expecting to get a highly desirable console that's been out for less than a month for less than retail price you're an idiot and the kind of person scammers love.
It's not rocket science dude.
The XBox One retails at £429 ($499 in the US). This listing was slightly above retail price, as you might expect for a console in high demand.
For someone criticising this guy for being stupid and misreading the ad you don't seem to have the best reading comprehension yourself.
Of course, the godwyn's law of Reddit rears it's head again.
My point remains, I would never buy a big ticket item from Ebay for just that reason..
> electornics
Like Magnaphone or Sorny!
Those would be brand names to avoid on Ebay. yes.
Lol get fucked
You know that I am telling the truth.
No! Because... free market... and... invisible hand or something!
Not to take sides, but the buyer said he saw it said "photo" in the title and bought it anyway. If that's true, the buyer is at fault. It's obvious that the seller knowingly tried to confuse customers it worked, but he did not lie about what was being sold.
It all depends on the weight the seller put in the description. If it was xbox one's real weight then it counts as a scam, but if it said something like 4 grams, then the seller is in the right.
I hate these kind of scammers, but technically the seller might have been in the right.
EBay has a policy that you don't try to deliberately mislead people. If your intent is to scam someone it doesn't matter how many technical rules you tick off, you are going to be deemed in the wrong.
> Select a category that matches the item you're selling.
>Provide a clear, honest, and accurate description of your item.
A listing that is technically accurate but designed to mislead is not "clear" and "honest".
Yea, that makes sense.
And yet it obviously works or they wouldn't do it.
Sure, it works. The point is the people trying to do it are scammers and I honestly don't understand why so many people on Reddit seem to want to defend these scammers. I mean the guy I responded to on this said that if the seller put "photo" in the title the buyer was at fault, even if the seller's intention was to defraud. Which is ridiculous.
From what I can make out it's part of this whole Reddit superiority complex, stupid people "deserve" to be tricked out of their money and Reddit seems to celebrate it for some reason. For the same reason they cry "Darwin award!" when someone manages to kill themselves by doing something stupid. It's not an attractive trait.
I have a very good rule of thumb on ebay or any other site. don't spend money that you don't want to loose. And frankly if you think you're getting a console that came out the same month for less than retail and it's not a scam or stolen then you are an idiot. If that makes me have a superiorty complex so be it.
You can say the guy is an idiot without saying the scammer is in the right. Many many people are not just calling the guy an idiot, they are flat out saying the scammer should be allowed keep his money.
Considering that a lot of these auctions clearly state that you're getting the box only...?
It doesn't work. It only works when the person receives the box/photo, and doesn't file a claim against the seller.
When they file a claim against the seller PayPal will withold the payment, eBay will investigate, and in all likelihood the person will be banned from selling on eBay in the future.
Being right doesn't make you not an asshole though.
That's true.
Thankfully I can be wrong and an asshole. Score!
It also doesn't give ebay a right to chargeback or ban you, if the only thing you are is an asshole.
Given that ebay is a private company and "asshole" is not a protected class...
Yes, yes it does.
I'd certainly trust ebay more if they did ban assholes instead of worrying that they're going to sit idly by when someone screws me.
If you are dumb enough to buy a box of a console after seeing "box only" in the title, and 3 times in the description, you are going to get scammed so fucking hard so many times in life that people will eventually stop caring.
>It's obvious that the seller knowingly tried to confuse customers
This is the important part as far as fraud goes.
Well, to us it looks deliberate. But he can argue that it wasn't his intent to be misleading, because it said "photo" in the title and the buyer saw it.
The posting was posted in the Consoles category on ebay (which I misread before), so that proves it was meant to be misleading and a scam.
You cant list a photo in the games and consoles section. They also ban the selling of accessories or packaging without the accompanying product.
> Well, to us it looks deliberate. But he can argue that it wasn't his intent to be misleading, because it said "photo" in the title and the buyer saw it.
No one is going to try and legitimately sell a photograph of a mass produced item for a set price of $750 (the buy now button price). It's not hard to deduce why they would set the buy now price in the hundreds for something most people wouldn't bother paying a dollar for.
You know, defenses you use in kindergarten to get out of trouble don't work in a court.
Aren't technicalities are essential in court?
Only in highly publicized, huge budget, monumental cases. In a small claims case they don't matter.
It is against eBay policy. He violated the terms and conditions and posted it anyway.
There is no excuse for it. Period. It is like saying when street vendors play a shell game it is okay because the person playing chose to engage. No. It is a scam to have a shell game. The end.
The seller is still being intentionally deceptive, which is not legal.
The buyer was wilfully ignorant, and therefore forfeit to any claim, but the seller is not acting lawfully either.
Not every hypothetical legal case has to have one winner and one loser.
From the comments of the linked article:
>I know this guy, I sold him a picture of a pack of condoms around 5 years ago...
lol
Holy shit that is cold.
^^^and ^^^hilarious
SnapShot
(Mirror | open source | create your own snapshots)
My grandma used to watch judge Judy and I remember this exact type of ebay auction case (except it was cellphones instead) was featured. I found a clip: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f09_1316886868
Sweet
I remember this one! She goes on a tirade about how the lady is a thief and her kids should get taken away or something.
You have a good memory!
I think that pretty much sums it up, Judge Judy has spoken. (Watching it now, but I have a feeling from the first ten seconds where it is going.)
EDIT: I won't spoil the ending but it was a good episode. Lots of yelling from Judge Judy.
Yup and I'd say she was none too impressed with the 'it said photo in the ad' argument the seller tried to push.
Just because its a stupid scam it doesn't make it not a scam
There's always going to be stupid people in the world. Stupid people still have to buy things, interact with the world, and make decisions. But people don't have to be dishonest, scamming fucks. They chose to be and they chose to take advantage of stupid people. So we have laws to punish dishonest, scamming fucks. Because even people that aren't chronically stupid can fall for a scam if they aren't vigilant 24/7. And what would we rather have: a society in which both stupid and smart people can freely participate in a lively, honest economy? Or one in which everyone is constantly worried about getting scammed by dishonest fucks that nobody punishes?
I agree. A lot of my friends and family are dumb gullible fucks. I'd prefer to not have to babysit them all the time.
Scammers should be treated like the scum they are and punished as such.
Exactly. It's kind of second-hand sociopathic (or, at least, extremely negligent) to pretend that someone else's stupidity is not your problem.
When scammers are scamming you, that's not the tune you'll be singing. And nobody has the time to be an expert in every transaction they need to make throughout their entire life.
That's why we had a massive freaking housing crash in '08: criminal negligence. People who blame uneducated home owners are missing the point.
I've been in a very similar situation, but I wasn't trying to scam anyone.
I was selling the BOX my Xbox came in. Why? Having a box is desirable to collectors, can aide in safely shipping a console to someone if you're thinking of selling your console, and increases resale value.
So, I list it on Ebay, with a description explaining it's JUST THE BOX, listed it in the proper category, and included a pic of JUST the empty box. The auction ended with bids over $200. I informed the buyer that they were buying ONLY the box, and they naturally wanted a refund which of course I provided.
I listed that box at least FOUR times, and each time I increased the verbiage indicating it was JUST a box. The final attempt included images with a big red X over the Xbox, and a big green checkmark over an EMPTY box. You'd have be retarded to bid on this and think it was for the console.. yet it happened AGAIN.
This last time, I shipped the fucking box to the guy, and never received an email or call from him about it.
It's explicitly forbidden to sell empty boxes on eBay. Not just for reasons of fraud, but also because it facilitates counterfeiting.
> If the manufacturer doesn't offer the accessories or other extras as a separate purchase, those items can't be listed on eBay without the accompanying branded product.
> Not allowed: Accessories or packaging without the accompanying product.
> Box for a branded watch without the accompanying watch
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-accessories.html
I suspect my listing pre-dated this policy, since it was back when the original xbox came out.
can't blame them for biding "box" is still 3/4ths of "Xbox"
Huh. That's really interesting. I guess that explains why people kept getting confused.
FYI: Searching ebay.com for xbox "box only" will give you a few active listings.
Seriously, did you expect to get more then $5 for the box if a buyer actually thought they were buying the box and not the console?
No, he didn't, but it was an auction and so people bid it up. As far as I can make out this Xbox case was a "Buy it Now" at $750.
Yea, this guy was trying to scam people. I was trying to sell a box. Big difference.
Reminds me of ppp powerbook
>Mr Clatworthy made the purchase on November 28, paying £450 plus £8 packaging.
>Despite the listing stating it was a photo of an XBox One Day One edition console, Mr Clatworthy said he'd expected to receive the console as it was listed in the video games and consoles category on eBay.
To be fair, that guy clearly is an idiot.
It's a common scam tactic on eBay and a deliberate attempt to mislead. It's banned in eBay's T&Cs as the only good reason you might want to sell a photo of something like this is to scam someone who mistakes it for the actual object- why on earth otherwise would you expect someone to pay $750 for a photo? Why would you be selling a photo in the consoles category?
Many eBay scams are based on posting misleading listings and eBay tries to ban as many as possible, as it should. There is no valid reason for this listing other than try to scam someone.
Yeah I know and it was definitive a scam, but the guy even acknowledge that it said photo before he bought it.
That is a special kind of stupid.
I don't think that's necessarily true, I've seen people selling cars on craigslist post a picture of their car along with something like "here's a picture of my car" and I never thought that they were literally selling a picture of a car rather than an actual car.
I'd have to read the actual listing, but there's a lot of ways a seller can use ambiguous wording to say that he's technically selling a picture of a console without making the listing seem too out of the ordinary.
Here's the title: "Xbox One Fifa 14 Day One Edition, Photo Brand New UK 2013".
It's at least a little confusing. Should still be obvious enough, but it wasn't completely clear it was just a photo.
Right, but it was listed under Video Game Consoles and cost 450$, not under photos.
I think we'd have to see the listing. He said this guy seemed a reputable seller in the past without negative feedback.
Anyone who has made more than one purchase on eBay usually knows that scammers can easily fake auctions falsifying feedback with bots and other scammers.
Have made many purchases on eBay, didn't know that you can fake stuff like that
You can but its very time consuming to do even just one fake feedback. EBay isn't dumb though and usually notices when someone is making fake ones.
You don't exactly 'fake' it, but you list auctions for bullshit items costing next to nothing and have your bots or fellow scammers in the ring leave positive feedback on your account.
I don't know if this is still how feedback manipulation occurs, but it used to be quite prevalent. There were even sites that would sell positive feedback using their botnet.
I don't understand why it is stupid. If you saw "photo of [object] for sale" as a title on Craigslist or something, with a price corresponding to the value of the item, wouldn't you assume that it was just poorly-stated by the seller, and that the actual object was for sale? He doesn't seem to be stupid at all to me for making that assumption.
Just because he's stupid doesn't mean he deserves this.
Could you please quote me where i said he deserved it?
Oh ho ho ho, because you never said he deserved it, so it is not possible to quote you saying that! You have made an impossible request! Clever girl
Now you're getting it.
There were a lot of conflicting things in the listing. There was a lot of the benefit of the doubt that you could give to the buyer, and not to mention the benefit of the doubt that the buyer could have given to the seller.
Maybe it might have simply been a mistake that it was listed as a photo?
Maybe he was acting on the assumption that the person was not in violation of the law and the terms and agreements of eBay.
From what I've found, you can sell any photos you want on ebay for whatever amount you want.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-accessories.html
Edit: We need to see the actual posting or the original title of the posting.
Not while claiming they are a console you can't. If he listed it in “Art>Photographic Images" I imagine he would have been fine. But he listed it as a console.
EDIT: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/search-manipulation.html
> Select a category that matches the item you're selling.
>Provide a clear, honest, and accurate description of your item.
> Allowed: Pictures clearly showing the item for sale
>Not allowed: Including unrelated pictures to try to get people to look at the listing
>Picture of an item that isn't for sale. For example, selling a generic MP3 player but showing a picture of an iPod
>Pictures that don't represent your item
Oh I see. The buyer is in the right then.
Eh, god forbid you actually pay attention to the title and description of the item you're spending $750 on. I get that they're scamming people, but it's not like they're lying, they're just misleading.
> they're just misleading.
and that's okay?
Not at all, but to absolve the buyer of any responsibility is dumb.
Sorry, but no. Manipulating stupid people with a scam isn't the victim's fault just because they are stupid enough to get ensnared by the trap of a predator. Fuck that noise.
It's literally rape
Can you explain to me how this is a scam? It's not like he said "I'll sell you an XBOX One!" then didn't deliver. He's not a Nigerian prince, either, from the sound of it. When buyers get ahead of themselves and bid on something without bothering to read the TITLE and DESCRIPTION to be clear that what they're bidding on is actually what they want, I have little pity for them. I mean, a scam would be if I were to put the console on Craigslist, take my packaging, put a brick in it, re-shrink wrap it and leave before the purchaser opened it. THAT'S a scam. Not this "I was tricked because I lack reading comprehension!!"
A few Christmases back, I was selling off Blu Rays and digital copies from my collection. It rather surprised me that people would pay $5 or $10 for a digital copy of a movie, but to each his own. Back then (and possibly even now) eBay doesn't have a separate category for Digital Copies. I posted one with the Blu Rays, SPECIFICALLY with the title saying "DIGITAL COPY ONLY" in big bold letters, and the description was "This is ONLY for the DIGITAL COPY, NOT the Blu Ray." I literally could not have been more clear about it. When the woman who won the auction got her package, she sent me an e-mail claiming that she didn't understand what that meant (why bid on something you don't know??). I eventually, even though I felt I was in the right, gave her a refund and since I have no way of knowing if the DC was claimed, I told her to keep the item. Should I really have had to eat the shipping/tracking cost of sending her the code, along with any money I could have made off of it, just because she didn't read the fucking item she was bidding for?
Difference being I was being honest and forthright and that guy is undoubtedly trying to take advantage of people. Actually it reminds me of an XBOX One listing I saw, for the Box/Packaging only. I showed it to coworkers and we all had a laugh, since it was up to $600 at that point. Really, the only thing I found to be wrong with that is the person started the bidding at $100, which is ridiculous for packaging (but obviously priced well enough to be a believable starting bid for an actual console). If they'd have started at $1 or even $5, I'd have said "wow just read the title and description you stupid twats" but starting at $100 just adds to the notion that you're not just trying to make a little money off your worthless packaging, but trying to trick people [who lack reading comprehension].
So, if I told you that your cell phone's TOS (which you presumably click okay for without reading) or any of the other ones you signed throughout your life without reading, had a statement under 'privacy' that said you would be subjected to anal probes and excessive fines for breathing, it would be your fault for not realizing you were being misled?
Well, when you tell me I have unlimited bandwidth but what you really mean is I have my advertised speed up to 5 GB of bandwidth used, then you throttle me down to 10% of my advertised speed for the rest of the month, what do we call that?
Yes.. it would be my fault for not reading the fine print. That doesn't mean the person I am contracting with isn't an asshole, though.
Why live in a world of fear and buyer beware, when we could really easily increase the incentive to be honest?
And it is dishonesty....
The buyer's still a complete moron, but he didn't deserve to get scammed, he's not in the wrong here.
If it's meant to mislead, how is that any better in implications than it is to lie?
They're both equally reprehensible.
Well, from a buyer's standpoint.. You can avoid being misled. Unless they sell you something broken, if you receive a PHOTO of an item when you bid on a PHOTO of an item, that's on you. Now, if they listed the console and you got a brick inside XBOX packaging, how were you supposed to even know?
It's not any better, but if you're lied to, I can't fault you. If you just didn't bother to pay attention to what you were spending money on, some of the blame lies with you.
What if you took a photo of a photo of an xbone?
Then it's art.
> why on earth otherwise would you expect someone to pay $750 for a photo?
I think the same thing when I look on steam market and people are selling in-game gun skins for CS:GO for $100+, but apparently people buy that shit. Maybe he put the photo up there but didn't expect anyone to be actually stupid enough to go for it. Probably still his fault, but still, I can see how both sides are to blame to an extent, especially since it was marketed as a photo.
Your downvotes are delicious.
It wasn't though, it was listed in the consoles section and was obviously a misleading listing as eBay agreed.
eBay has a section specifically for selling photographs. If it was listed there and the description clearly stated it was a photograph, and gave details you might expect of such a listing such as the size, and the type of print, and so on, yes, then if the guy bought it it would be his problem. But honestly, this wasn't the case here.
Here is an example of a clear and honest listing of a photograph of a camera, listed in the "photographs" section where it is abundantly clear that you are buying a print, not a camera. I don't believe this Xbox listing was like that.
if its a picture it shouldnt be in video games and consoles category. he isnt an idiot, he is just ignorant of the scam method.
No he pretty much is an idiot, yes he's ignorant of the scam methods, but if you're going to spend 750$ (about 450 pounds) online while not knowing some common online scam tactics, that's what being an idiot is. He even knew something was fishy, but went ahead with the purchase and got screwed.
Now the important thing is however, that just because he was dumb here doesn't mean he deserved to get scammed. The scammer is an asshole and the buyer, no matter how much of an idiot he is, is completely in the right in scams, after all that's why they're scams and that's why they're illegal.
I think in an ideal world "buyer beware" isn't something that people should put up with.
I agree, I'm just saying though, the dude's still an idiot.
Forgivably so, however. There's no point in actually pointing out he's an idiot. If it weren't him it would have been someone else. He's not too much of an idiot to function though.
That's true. But it's also pretty naive in ignorant to assume this. Just because something should be different it doesn't mean that some assholes won't scam people on the internet. This is like saying: "I cross the street without looking because cars need to stop at intersections". Of course they do but is this something that you would teach your children? "Trust people and be a gullible person because everybody is nice and peaceful".
Especially if you live in a country like the US where a buyer has basically no rights when it comes to purchases it should be common knowledge to check things at least twice. If I buy a used car and the seller tells me that it never had a problem and that it runs fine I don't take his word for granted. I would be a naive person if I did that. I'm gonna check it by myself and take it to a repair shop to make a quick check or something similar.
That's what we teach toddlers for god's sake. If some adult doesn't know how to behave when it comes to auctions and/or money this is pretty weird and definitely not normal. It's one thing if I buy an Xbox and the seller sends me a bag of chips with some random $2 dip but if I buy something that clearly states that it is a picture of a console?
Of course it's a scam and the seller is an asshole but do you seriously think that EVERYBODY can fall for something like that?
It's only a handful of people who buy this stuff. And usually those aren't the brightest minds when it comes to commerce and auctions.
Before I give some stranger 750 dollar I make sure to read the contract/discription at least twice so that I know FOR SURE what I'm gonna buy. If he said that he read that it was a picture than I can't fathom how he still thought that it was a great idea to buy it.
The dude might be clever in other aspects but if he does such a grave mistake he has to learn a thing or two about normal human behavior and auctions. It's not like this is an uncommon problem on Ebay.
If he's new to ebay, he might just be inexperienced.
Yeah he's a teenager.
He's 19 and he was buying it for his four-year-old son. This kid is clearly a prize.
To be honest, saying 'photo' in the title might just mean you have lots of photos of the product.
Yeah, exactly. Like saying "with pictures!" to show that your posting includes detailed pictures of the exact specimen instead of a stock photo of the product.
SnapShots: 1, 2, 3, ^Readability
If you ever want a thread completely zapped from /r/nottheonion, /r/cringe, /r/cringepics just post it here.
Bit of an overreaction you might think.
Well duh. We're a down vote brigade machine! How else can they protect the karma?! /s
It wasn't even a nice photo.
Yeah, seriously. I'd at least expect it to be on photo paper after spending $700.
It's amazing how many people defend this kind of thing. Even if the seller was following the rules of the site(which to my understanding he WASN'T), he's a completely asshole and a scam artist who should not be celebrated in any way.
This isn't some kind of "justice" against "stupid" people. It's just someone being an asshole and scamming someone else. There is no net gain in this incident. The world is a shittier place because of this incident.
Why can't it be both their faults? A smart person wouldn't have fallen for it and an honest person never would have tried.
But is it someone's fault for being dumb? You can chose to be honest. Some people are just born stupid.
The buyer wasn't perfect. But he doesn't deserve to lose $750 dollars for being an idiot.
Compulsive liar?
The 19 year old says its for his four-year old kid. Sure...
I'd call that corroborating evidence that this buyer is, in fact, a bit low on the brain cells.
Why are these always all deleted? I'm I doing something wrong or do I just get here late?
Just late unfortunately. Usually a bot posts a screenshot though, look through the comments
Just late unfortunately. Usually a bot posts a screenshot though, look through the comments
Lots of subs are very aggressive about deleting anything that SRD links to, because they want to reduce the amount of drama and fighting in their sub.
A 19-year old buying for his 4-year old son. Thats extremely young to have a kid.
Teenage pregnancy is a thing, there are 35,000 of them (to under-18 year olds) every year in the UK alone. It's not really relevant though one way or the other to whether the guy was scammed.
I think it is.
It's clear he's a fucking moron if he had a kid at 14-15. There's no reason for anyone in a 1st world country to be doing that. The fact that he bought an ebay auction that he admits said photo basically seals the deal.
Also, what the fuck does a four year old need with a limited edition anything?
A child doesn't need a console, limited edition or not. That's not what's causing disagreement.
I know it's not. I'm just saying that on top of all the other ridiculousness here, this kid is trying to claim he's buying it for his kid as part of his sob story.
My brother and I fell for this when the PS3 came out. I raised holy hell at ebay and they refunded our money without a big issue.
>I raised holy hell at ebay
>> without a big issue.
Um...
I consider writing a strongly worded email to be not a big issue, don't you?
Well, I don't think I'd call it raising holy hell, but close enough.
It's all deleted.
Here is a log.
Is there a link to the actual title of the ebay posting?
Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to Reddit comment sections.
I love when reddit gets into legal debates. Bunch of fucking idiots.
For those actually interested in the story itself, eBay is giving the buyer a refund. Other pertinent information from the original story: > Mr Clatworthy made the purchase on November 28, paying £450 plus £8 packaging.
>Despite the listing stating it was a photo of an XBox One Day One edition console, Mr Clatworthy said he'd expected to receive the console as it was listed in the video games and consoles category on eBay.
> He said: "It said 'photo' and I was in two minds, but I looked at the description and the fact it was in the right category made me think it was genuine.
> "I looked at the seller's feedback and there was nothing negative. I bought it there and then because I thought it was a good deal.
> "It's obvious now I've been conned out of my money."
You can see the original eBay listing here. The auction's title was "Xbox One Fifa Day One Edition, Photo Brand New UK 2013."
Shit. All the comments were deleted.
All the comments are deleted?