Can we talk about consent and alcohol? (self.SRSDiscussion)

SRSDiscussion

7 ups - 4 downs = 3 votes

I'm an upperclassman in high school, and I've recently gotten into drinking and partying. Nothing really crazy or over the top, just your standard high school stuff. However, at the last couple of parties, I got pretty drunk and made out with a couple of other drunk teenage girls. I'm a guy, and I just want to know how far is too far. While my decision making skills might be impaired, it is absolutely no excuse for any kind of rape and I just want to be perfectly clear on what is okay, and if consent is even obtainable while intoxicated before I make a huge mistake and violate someone.

Now I've been going on SRS and its other subreddits for the past couple of months, and I gotta say you guys are great and you've taught me a lot about being sensitive to others, checking my privilege, and of course consent. I can't seem to find it, but I remember someone posting a neat image for deciding what is/isn't consent, and that helped. Now I'd like to get some advice and information on consent when alcohol is brought into the picture. Thanks

17 comments submitted at 05:03:20 on Mar 1, 2013 by throwaway3a3

  • [-]
  • MBRedux
  • -1 Points
  • 05:37:06, 1 March

How about don't kiss girls while drunk? Is this really so hard?

  • [-]
  • srs_anon
  • 12 Points
  • 06:10:54, 1 March

As a girl and rape victim who likes kissing people when I'm drunk: yes, that is so hard, and it's also incredibly unnecessary and offensively reductive in a serious conversation about the nuances of consent. I'm so annoyed this is upvoted.

  • [-]
  • MBRedux
  • 1 Points
  • 06:14:28, 1 March

As a woman, and also a rape victim, who was violently raped and hospitalized by someone while drunk, I don't think it's too much to ask.

  • [-]
  • srs_anon
  • 6 Points
  • 06:32:47, 1 March

What happened to you was fucked up and I'm sorry, but you know it's not on par with 'kissing girls while drunk.' Yes, avoiding any physical contact while any party is any level of intoxicated would mean you never have to worry about any grey area, but it also isn't realistic to demand that no one kiss anyone while drunk in order to never get to the grey area. People won't do that. It's more important to help people understand how enthusiastic consent works and to truly care about whether your sexual partners are willing and capable of consent.

There's nothing inherently unethical about 'kissing girls while drunk.' If your only argument for it is that it can prevent confusion about consent, you may as well say 'don't drink or be around people who are drinking.'

  • [-]
  • poalrburr
  • 3 Points
  • 06:25:07, 1 March

why yes, a drunk person in an environment that encourages poor decision making can totally control themself and not make poor decisions.

holy shit you are the most unhelpful person in the world.

OP, make sure you're only drinking around people that you trust. You don't have to trust ALL of them (making new friends is, you know, a good thing), but make sure you have a couple people at your back to keep you from making bad decisions (you should, of course, reciprocate if you are able). Good idea: get a friend who likes partying but not drinking. That person, or people, are probably your best bet for keeping your ass out of the fire when you can't keep it out yourself.

If you can't trust drunk you, and you can't trust your friends around drunk you, I'd recommend learning to enjoy dry parties. Alcohol (while awesome) isn't necessary to have a good time.

In terms of consent, operate under the assumption that everyone hates you and wants nothing to do with you. Surefire way to avoid sexual assault, as your partners can't consent to LITERALLY ANYTHING while under the influence. If they're sober and realize that what they did while drunk was OK, you're in the clear, but it is entirely possible to not consent to something that happened while someone was drunk. That's how you get under for sexual assault. Those friends you trust? Yeah, they should be working to get you out of those situations. Split up drunk couples whenever possible, and keep track of everyone in your group, and the drunk revelry will commence without endangering anyone.

  • [-]
  • MBRedux
  • -1 Points
  • 06:28:15, 1 March

>why yes, a drunk person in an environment that encourages poor decision making can totally control themself and not make poor decisions.

What the fuck, are you seriously making this kind of argument? That the OP shouldn't blame himself for kissing girls while drunk, which can lead them to a rape scenario? This same poor excuse of "whelp couldn't control myself" can be applied to the rapist themselves, because the poor shitlord couldn't control themselves away from "accidentally" raping someone, right? You're almost blaming the victim with this.

Terrible. Seriously this comment is almost triggering me. =/

  • [-]
  • poalrburr
  • 0 Points
  • 06:33:42, 1 March

> This same poor excuse of "control yourself" can be applied to the rapist themselves

counterpoint: no.

  • [-]
  • MBRedux
  • 0 Points
  • 06:34:55, 1 March

No, that's my point. It's a poor excuse. Why are you making that argument?

  • [-]
  • poalrburr
  • 0 Points
  • 06:50:18, 1 March

because it's almost like drunk people do have a hard time controlling themselves whereas sober rapists do not.

so saying "just don't kiss people, idiot" is incredibly unhelpful to someone looking for advice on how to control themselves while drunk

if you said something like "just don't get drunk, idiot," i probably wouldn't have jumped you (and i'm sorry for that), but you're acting like controlling oneself while sober is the simplest thing in the world when you know it's not.

edit: also, that wording on my part is awful. i should've put like 2-3 "easily"s or something like that in there. damn.

  • [-]
  • deleuzed
  • 2 Points
  • 07:05:08, 1 March

I think you're getting downvotes because your advice is pretty impractical. A huge part of the reason most people I know drink and go to parties is because they enjoy this sort of physical contact with people. Saying "don't kiss people when drunk" is pretty much the same thing as saying "don't drink or party" for a lot of people, myself included.

  • [-]
  • MBRedux
  • 2 Points
  • 07:06:29, 1 March

I'm sorry, it's just a little triggering. That kind of contact is what started the guy physically assaulting me.

  • [-]
  • throwaway3a3
  • 4 Points
  • 07:19:02, 1 March

Sorry, I really didn't mean to trigger you or anyone else with this discussion :( I really should have put a TW, since a topic like this can get really touchy for people. Whoever did that to you is the lowest of the low, and it would be my worst nightmare to become like him and hurt people like you. I'm just trying to figure out how I can party responsibly without hurting anyone in any way.

  • [-]
  • deleuzed
  • 2 Points
  • 07:22:10, 1 March

You're doing far better the most high schoolers by having these sorts of discussions. I would just echo what other people have said, the most important and easiest thing to do is to drink responsibly.

  • [-]
  • deleuzed
  • 1 Points
  • 07:14:15, 1 March

Please don't be sorry. I'm sorry that the discussion is triggering. And I don't think it's "bad advice", I just think it need to be worded a little more conditionally. There are definitely people, especially in a high school setting, who are way too aggressive about kissing, even though kissing in itself might not be "that big a deal". However, I do think these discussions are important, especially to generate useful advice. The big ones being "if you're at all unsure, ask consent" and "if you're still unsure, don't do it".