/r/videos has turned into an all out brawl between feminists and mensrighters over the video of a fight between a man and woman. Drama everywhere, sort by controversial. The up/down count on the linked comment is intense. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
156 ups - 48 downs = 108 votes
249 comments submitted at 00:37:32 on Nov 4, 2013 by Erra0
They should both be under arrest for assualt.
(Guess I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from the MRAs or feminists)
Fighting back is rarely a crime. It would depend on the local laws.
There are those few places that require you to try to flee I think. Some places require you not to use disproportionate force. Cops might consider punching her through a window to be disproportionate.
Disproportionate force is rarely how hard did someone punch someone else vs how hard did they get punched. It is usually he punched me so I stabbed him. Or he punched me so I beat him repeatedly until he was unconscious. Yeah that isn't proportional.
I don't think when he threw that punch he thought "This will send this girl tumbling back through a window", I think he just punched. If someone started wailing on me and I pushed them away in desperation and they stumbled and fell onto a curb and cracked their head open and died, I shouldn't be arrested for using disproportionate force, right?
I know it's an exaggeration but I think you get my point. He threw a punch in return for a punch, how she reacted to it should have little bearing on his punishment imo, at least in this case.
Intent > consequences. His intent was self defense. Her intent was to harm others.
Edit: I see most redditors don't follow Kantian ethics.
Woah, let's not get it twisted. Yeah he was defending himself but his intent was retaliation, not defense of his well being/life. That doesn't make him wrong but let's not get the intent fucked up here. Retaliation is not worse than assault but it's still not defense.
His intent was defensive. He showed twice that he would not tolerate assault. Reaction is not the same as retaliation.
You're not grasping what I'm saying.
He was not an aggressor and he was defending himself, but his intent was not defense of his well being or life, it was retaliation. There's a distinct difference there. That doesn't make him wrong and it doesn't make him an aggressor, it just makes him retaliatory. If we're going to talk intent we might as well get it right.
Which you haven't done. He reacted in such a way as to defend his well being.
Running would have been a defensive action.
> He reacted in such a way as to defend his well being.
Jesus, you're more dense than a neutron star. If you can't grasp such an elementary nuance between the concept intent and action then I'm not going to do this.
Kantian ethics are great for an internal moral system, but a shitty, shitty way to judge others. From the perspective of the outsider, consequences > intent, since I have to take your word for what your intent was.
And if the internet teaches you anything, anything at all, it should be that PEOPLE LIE.
>And if the internet teaches you anything, anything at all, it should be that PEOPLE LIE.
You mean that that nigerian prince did not actually intend to share his millions with me?
:/
That is only a problem with certain people. It works perfectly if we assume the average person is not a piece of shit.
Yes, except that a significant number of people are. Not even intentionally, and they themselves wouldn't say they were, but we've always been more of a rationalizing animal than a rational animal.
True. This explains SRS.
> few places
A lot of places here in the states require that you retreat long before being allowed to retaliate. Some factors like if you own the residence/business, ability to flee, pursuit, and a few others can play into it though.
> disproportionate force
I don't know of anywhere that says you CAN use disproportionate force. Usually disproportionate force is spelled out more like you can't bring a gun to a fist fight sort of thing unless you fear for your life, not that he jolly green giant in this case couldn't defend himself(assuming of course he wasn't required to retreat).
Someone did observe that the window appeared to be already somewhat cracked, though, so it may not be the case that he full on Hulked out on her.
Honestly though, force is always going to be disproportionate when one party is a giant man and the other is a tiny girl. Does this mean the man-giant can't do anything if he's being attacked?
Any member of the assaulting party could have been carry weapons. Did you not hear the cries to pepper spray the guy in green?
Pretty sure pepper spray's restricted in the UK.
He seemed to be using proportionate force until she went through the window, although that could be more from her losing her balance and falling into it than the force of him punching her. He didn't straight out deck her outright or she would've been out at the start.
You're still responsible for what happens, in most places I've heard about.
I'm not running unless someone has a gun, a knife, friend to help beat my ass, or a random large blunt object.
Otherwise I'm standing my ground.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/A8qDgQ2207s/maxresdefault.jpg