A corporation divided. (self.Bravenewbies)

Bravenewbies

23 ups - 4 downs = 19 votes

Alright. In light of the divided opinions regarding the idea of joining FW, I'm temporarily calling off the planned move tomorrow and setting up a discussion on the subject.

Current poll results show a split straight down the middle: http://poll.pollcode.com/fgldov_result

We've all agreed we don't want to stay in Hek and that we want to move to lowsec. The question is, what do we want to do there? I want you to discuss things in a civilized manner. Make your arguments. Give others the benefit of doubt. We are in the process of defining our future as a corporation. There is no room for nonconstructive discussion here.

Here are our choices the way I see it. Feel free to correct me and suggest other options. I'm a newbie operating on limited information just like the rest of you. After the discussion has reached a point of maturity where we can see our options, I will set up a poll and we shall make our choice.

1. We move to lowsec and claim a system with no alignments. We will own our own piece of space and remain unaligned. We might not be able to move supplies out to a lowsec station since our high public profile means lowsec inhabitants will catch wind of what we are doing. For the same reason, we have to consider the possibility that large pirate corporations will focus on us. We won't be particularly close to a trade hub. Compared to faction warfare, individual players may not make as much money. It's a tempting idea but also one that carries with it a high risk.

2.

We move to lowsec and pick a faction warfare system as our home. We pick one next to highsec so supply for local markets will be easier. We join FW, and fight for our chosen faction. Fights will be easier to find and LP rewards means that individual pilots can make substantial money fighting. We will lose half of empire space but there won't be a lack of trade hubs or missions to do. After we have won our battles and can all afford many times more ships than we can now, we can decide to leave FW and head on to our next big goal, be it neutral lowsec or straight-out nullsec.

Keep in mind, this is not discussion on which FW faction we are joining, but about whether we join FW at all. If FW wins out, then we talk about factions.

105 comments submitted at 16:09:01 on Feb 21, 2013 by Suecotero

  • [-]
  • CypheriusRex
  • 16 Points
  • 16:36:41, 21 February

There is an element in this discussion that is not receiving a lot of attention, and that is the viability of our supply chain. A lot of the newer players have no idea how much forethought and effort go into providing them with the tools they need to be viable in PVP.

As someone who is intimately involved in that effort, I need to point out that we are effectively autonomous with regards to the rest of the Corporation. I have no gripe with this, but moving into a Factional Warfare environment with no pre-existing relationship established between the Industrialists and the pilots that would be potentially protecting us is careless, at best.

We need to continue to exist in a training environment, and a lot more effort needs to be practiced to ensure that ALL areas are receiving adequate attention.

  • [-]
  • simster898
  • 8 Points
  • 18:15:09, 21 February

The other problem is that with faction warfare and industry you're effectively cutting your arm off. You isolate yourself from half the trade hubs in the game, which is NOT good for industry. Also you are effectively adding a ton of new war tagets. Not only will the old ones still be there (and other ones that declare war will be added), you have 2 faction worths of new war targets added to the fray. If you think they will stop station camping/station games just because you are in FW you are naive. Bottom line we can't do industry where we loose half our trade hubs, and where our miners will be harassed by both WTs and FW targets especially when we have not had much support from the pvp side of things to start.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 7 Points
  • 18:42:37, 21 February

We haven't had any, to be realistic. It is by the good graces of a select few who have the desire to do that sort of work that we have had any protection whatsoever, and often it is our own industry folk. You know this as well as I do, and the fact that we can't rely on the support of our PVPers has also kept us from running more important lowsec mining ops. The few we have run have been ninja mining strikes with a few Ventures, which is crazy considering the size of our corp and the availability of nearby, almost empty lowsec pockets near Hek.

Perhaps our leadership believes that they can just buy their way through war, either from donations, or the backing of players with large wallets, but I can't see that being sustainable in the long term, and it goes against the one ideal of BNI that I love most, independence, sheer and utter independence.

Any way you slice it, a move to FW is going to cost the corp a sizable portion of it's industry folk. I know of a few who have already left, and others who are talking about it. These next few days and the decisions made therein will tell the tale. I fear it's not going to be the tale those of us in industry and exploration care to hear.

  • [-]
  • DarkoneN
  • 1 Points
  • 19:04:37, 21 February

Move to utou! :D Then we can train and protect our gates! The roaming fleet might even get action coming to them for once. Otou! only two gates to defend zero activity and lots of mining. I don't think they will follow us there as we can gate camp just about 24/7 we could take shifts. We need to do somthing safer like this maybe until people catch up with their skills and training.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • 1 Points
  • 17:10:06, 21 February

What is the viability of getting the equipment we need in Amarrian FW? What challenges will our industrialists face?

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 1 Points
  • 19:25:47, 21 February

Freighters either way are not an easy way to go but with FW there is an added incentive for the other militias to track down haulers as thier cargo will give them more LP.

  • [-]
  • adaptablefuton
  • 0 Points
  • 17:19:28, 21 February

With faction warfare supply chains are relatively easy we can also do this without faction warfare the important thing is that our home system is one jump out of high sec

  • [-]
  • shift8creative
  • 0 Points
  • 19:07:55, 21 February

I'd rather focus on how to run supplies through highsec while in faction warfare than to sit in Hek all day waiting for a window when enough people from our corp are online so I can leave the station without getting popped. It sounds like a much more fun challenge where we can come up with some clever strategies and have a bit of fun. It's no fun losing a frigates or destroyer in a few seconds and then having to spend a lot of time crawling back to a station without a med bay...Or getting stranded somewhere else where you can be singled out. Moving supplies just seems like an easier task than defeating station games...But I'm a noob.

  • [-]
  • Suecotero
  • -1 Points
  • 16:57:05, 21 February

I agree, and whatever we choose you will have all the support you require.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 4 Points
  • 18:49:05, 21 February

The issue is if FW is picked the industry side of the corp is going to die off.

  • [-]
  • HeThinksHesPeople
  • 4 Points
  • 19:18:47, 21 February

It's going to either leave and join other corps or start it's own. I've enjoyed playing with BNI thus far, but the move into FW seems rushed and not thought out

  • [-]
  • Silas13013
  • 9 Points
  • 17:19:37, 21 February

I will add my input as a miner and a noob. The decision to move to low-sec will hardly effect me. I spend most of my time in high-sec and have my mining operations set up there. A move to low-sec will just have me planting a jump clone in our new base and jumping in whenever I am free for a roam. A switch to FW however, will massivly impact how much I can play. All of my stuff is in Minmitar space and would require quite a lot to move from place to place. I'm not saying it's impossible, but engaging in FW while we have so many new and inexperienced players who are just starting to settle into a routine (i.e. myself) will probably find the station camps of Hek to be preferable to half of the universe being hostile territory.

Now, I will follow the newbies wherever we go, but joining FW is not something that I am looking forward to.

7o

  • [-]
  • KhalduneRo
  • 14 Points
  • 17:08:03, 21 February

Dream Bigger! Step 1: Start an alliance. Create 5 new corps to join it that participate in each type of eve setting (probably FW, Null, Pirate, Industry/Mining, WH). Leave BNI as the catch all that new people join until they decide to specialize. So 6 corps total in alliance that members can choose to participate in Eve with. Set everyone blue.

Step 2: Find a spot in Eve that is 1 jump from some null space we can take over, 1 jump from low sec, 1 jump from high sec (i believe Orvolle was suggested on the boards) and near some trade hubs.

Step 3: Provide a place where newbies can join Eve and instantly start having fun. When they are no longer newbies and want to specialize... they can join a sister corp that does their interest. The sister corps will continue to attract bitter vets. When people get bored with one setting... just jump into a different one and try something new. Want to dabble in FW and compete in null... hey our corp does that.

We can be so much more than just another FW corp on reddit. I will follow you no matter what the final decision is, but I implore you to dream bigger. 7o

  • [-]
  • Love-All-Humanity
  • 4 Points
  • 17:39:31, 21 February

> Create 5 new corps to join it that participate in each type of eve setting (probably FW, Null, Pirate, Industry/Mining, WH)

My understanding is that you can't do FW unless your whole structure is in FW.

If you're a single player, you join FW.

If you're in corp, your whole corp joins FW.

If your corp is in an alliance, the whole alliance has to join FW.

If I'm mistaken, someone please correct me.

  • [-]
  • TheOneBlackMage
  • 8 Points
  • 17:49:41, 21 February

This is correct. The corporations would have to be separate, from a game mechanic perspective. However, there's no reason they can't set each other to blue and use the same resources - that's just a matter of logistics and organization.

  • [-]
  • EccentricAccent
  • 4 Points
  • 18:53:43, 21 February

This makes sense. Have a biscuit :)

  • [-]
  • Myke4TW
  • 3 Points
  • 19:12:45, 21 February

Seems the best answer to me. Leave BNI to be the massive blob force, with beginner fleet/PvP/game basics training, and split of to strengthen our industry, security, mining, and other ops.

  • [-]
  • Bulaba0
  • 1 Points
  • 17:54:30, 21 February

Doesn't work. Alliance gets involved in all wars.

  • [-]
  • xpop_tartsx
  • 22 Points
  • 16:44:05, 21 February

I think we need to look at the big picture. It is time to move to Low Sec. However FW is probably not the best thing logistically for the corporation right now. We need to establish Logistics and start manufacturing our own ships and be able to support ourselves. The handouts from other Alliances and corporations will not last forever and they will come with their price....Do we really want to allow other corporations and alliances influence our culture? We need to strengthen our industry and give the tools needed to them so they can make us a better Corporation. If we don't we will forever be at the whim of whoever is politely giving us ships.

Once we establish ourselves and we are standing on our own two feet. Is Faction Warfare down the road? I believe for many of us it probably is. I just don't see us as an independent corporation being ready for that.

  • [-]
  • Gerrbo
  • 5 Points
  • 16:58:07, 21 February

All of my upvotes! No one seems to care at all about the logistics of this. I've heard, "hey we talked to the industry guys and they're cool", but the guy that's the most vocal industry dude is concerned about all of this. I don't know all of the industry guys, but I know that Ken has been organizing lots of the mining/industry stuff, and if he's worried about supplying the corp I'd say that's a pretty big deal.

I don't have a problem with FW, moving to Low-Sec, or moving to Null-Sec. I have a problem with not establishing logistics for the Corp before we do all that.

  • [-]
  • CypheriusRex
  • 9 Points
  • 17:26:12, 21 February

We have an amazing group of guys in the Industry sector who would be more than capable to handle the challenge, but I want to make sure that, as a Corporation, we approach this intelligently and with everyone's best interest in mind. I want everyone in this Corp to have as much fun and freedom of choice as possible, and there are options within the game to see that through.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 4 Points
  • 18:50:25, 21 February

Industry is not on bored with this i have no idea who is claiming they talked to the indy guys and they were fine with it.

  • [-]
  • TheCheeks
  • 3 Points
  • 18:36:44, 21 February

Perfect answer. The move and life of lowsec is going to be hard enough for most noobies. I personally have started trying to get more people interested in Exploration as a way to make some ISK and plan on doing tutorial fleets this weekend. I think once we find a new home in lowsec, where the rewards are greater, we'll find more to do, especially when you come across sites where you'll need help from friends and corpmates.

Let's move, stretch our legs, and see what fun/careers we can discover in lowsec.

  • [-]
  • Mason9
  • 2 Points
  • 16:44:48, 21 February

I say that we need something done about home base being camped out. I know it's part of the fun but at the same time is pissing me off. If by us joining FW and make a home base a little bit safer I'm down for it. And it does give us some kind of structure and direction by doing FW. If we're going to be a corp and we need to be on the same page and at like a damn team and blow some shit up. That is all.

  • [-]
  • Chadwich
  • 3 Points
  • 18:31:01, 21 February

We should start a wing that does faction warfare.

"Brave Newbies Militia"

We could be aligned with them and they could still be our friends, people with play with and hang out with. This way we could please all parties. People could still join FW and those of us that would rather stay out, can do so.

Seems like an easy solution to me.

  • [-]
  • butcherblock
  • 4 Points
  • 18:15:46, 21 February

Outsider's perspective:

You've weathered the external threats very well. Reputation is in your group's favor though it is not as robust, yet, as staple groups.

This decision will shed players, no matter what. It's about choosing the leadership and type of players you want to surround yourselves with going forward.

FW seems pretty popular by that Poll, same with non-FW low-sec. Thing is, FW will always be there, available for you. Once you start FW it's progressively harder to stop the better you get at it. Essentially the only option after FW is null-sec of some kind. From a leadership perspective, looking to the long picture, this is the right path if your end goal is Null Sec.

Low-Sec non FW would be great if you guys wanted to build a kingdom of your own at a corp level. It's a stickier path as the behaviors of low-population Low-sec pilots is more like WH space than null/FW. smaller roams, probes galore, you'd have a home cluster instead of a home system. Great places for this are:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Aridia

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Derelik

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Khanid

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Molden_Heath

My personal favorite is Aridia, tons of systems, you guys could really spread out and set up an area intel network. Your numbers would do you benefit. And Fountain/Delve is right there for some null-sex.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 5 Points
  • 16:33:04, 21 February

I don't think we can start a reasonable discussion with how loaded your initial points are.

FW can be fun. After its overhaul a little while back i joined in and enjoyed my self. There will be plenty of ships to fight and there is an overall goal of taking systems. The only real way to make many is though LP and taking systems which new players will have a hard time doing as even the small sites will kill a player who isn't experienced enough. It will not be easy for starting players to make large sums of isk like most seem to think. They shouldn't have an issue supporting themselves enough to buy thrashers with mostly t1 fittings but a week to month old new player will not be able to make enough isk to fly t2 cruisers and battle cruisers with out having to worry about buying a new one. Industry will be almost non existent for FW. Supply chains can still exist and will still be needed but when you are at war with two other factions things like getting in your retriever to mine some rocks will incur heavily losses. manufacturing can still be done but POSs will be unnecessary and we will not be able to defend them against a battleship/cap fleet which the Minmitar FW guys do have. Many indy guys will not stick around for FW and since they are a mane chunk of the supply chain more people will have to start hauling their own belongings and not be able to mooch of the corp or its backers for as long some would have hoped. Now is FW fun? Sure it can be. I enjoyed it and make some isk doing it. If you want to just pvp it is a good place to be. You will get fights although most don't tend to be huge fleet fights or fights with mostly large ships as FW facilities more small gang pvp with a little large gang pvp. Initial losses will probably be very high with players loosing large sums of ships initially as they try to get used to have more than just 5 to 10 people station camping them.

LOW without FW: Low is also an enjoyable place to be. Fights although not as often will still happen and large fleet fights will be a more regular occurrence. There is more freedom with out FW as all space is still accessible and you will have less people hunting you down than you would with FW. Industry is still viable although Mining in low really is a stupid idea all around even though some don't think so. Isk for new players will still be hard at first but should be easier for them to get a foot hold and be able to support themselves. Supply chain wont be an issue as the industry people will still stick around and build ships and fittings.

In both cases fights will be had and isk will be made. In both cases station camps and gate camps from pirates will happen from time to time but they will quickly bugger off in search of other fights. In FW it might seem like the whole faction will jump to help you but they dont. They might join in on a large fight but most tend to care less if another FW corp is being attacked. In just LOW no one will be there to help us. We will have to fight our own fights and deal with things our selves like we have been in high sec.

I believe everyone should think about is if you wanted to FW so bad why did you join BNI and not Fweddit? They are good at FW and are not hard to get into. and also are you really willing to tell a large portion of the corp to fuck off because they don't want to FW? Trial accounts and people not looking to solely pvp will not enjoy FW or be able to join in.

  • [-]
  • Suecotero
  • 4 Points
  • 16:42:23, 21 February

> Here are the choices the way I see it.

  • [-]
  • doddman55
  • 4 Points
  • 17:10:40, 21 February

I think the low sec route with no affiliation is the better choice. doing this allows for more options to choice a space to move to. leaves all of the game open. and allows for pvp. this willl also draw more players to the corp. my in game toon in Keladoa

  • [-]
  • EccentricAccent
  • 3 Points
  • 17:34:11, 21 February

Here's my thoughts on the matter. If you want to please everybody, you'll have to find a happy medium. That means finding 4-5 systems that are next to each other that have a little bit of everything, and spreading out across those systems. When we get war-decced, we move to low-sec, when we get harassed by pirates, we move to high. Constantly adapting across the systems to suit the current times. Always analyzing and plotting and maneuvering to out-wit our opponents.

I've heard Orvolle being recommended because it has low and null bordering it, but I think we need to find a place a bit more low-key. Out of the way. I was thinking a hi-sec island, but industry types will suffer (as far as I know, logistics can't handle jumps through low or null. I don't even know whether they exist. Setting this up properly is vital, no matter what we decide. An army marches on its stomach)

As an added move to prevent war-griefers, I heard making an alliance would make it more expensive. We can make our own and make mini-corps that specialise in a certain thing, but amass as a whole when the time is needed. It would also give the added bonus of organizing 1400 people and structured training can begin. It also stops spies form hearing everything. You can still talk to everyone else, just in alliance chat.

I think the best move for Brave Newbies Inc is not a straight path, but one that constantly changes. Like water. Disperse when they attack, swarm together when they're weak. Make people do what they want to do, when they want to, but fight as one when the time comes (and they will work and fight hard if you give them the liberty of choice).

There is no one perfect solution that ends with a rainbow. So let's make our own as we go along. After all, we have no idea what we're doing :)

  • [-]
  • yteacher
  • 1 Points
  • 20:05:32, 21 February

I substantially agree with this sentiment. When I started, I was a complete newbro, too afraid to even think about going into lowspec space. BraveNewbies has helped me break out of that carebare scared of everything shell, and made me enjoy the game so much more. I don't really care if we go FW, in fact, I think it would be an interesting venture, like how going out to lowsec because yolo.

HOWEVER, the arguments of staying out of FW and just going to a lowsec system do have merrit. It probably is the best middle ground solution for our corp to grow and develop. To that end, and as OP has aforementioned, perhaps finding a happy middle ground system would be a good choice. I would suggest, however, that instead of a highsec system, a lowsec system that has decent connections to Null / FW / Tradehubs be picked. It might even be a good idea to choose a lowsec system that has optimal connections to all those things and do FW as an experiment. If FW doesn't go well, we can just quit FW, but still be in a lowsec base that is close to null/highsec/hubs to fulfill or alternate plans. Nothing wrong with trying out FW, and if it's not our cup of tea, make sure our new base is still good. Either way 7o bravenewbs.

**TL;DR: Move to a lowsec area that has FW/nullsec/highsec-tradehub potential. Prefer no FW, but maybe test out FW, and if we ain't feeling it, drop out but still have a good lowsec base.

  • [-]
  • Bulaba0
  • 3 Points
  • 17:56:09, 21 February

What exactly do you plan on shooting in lowsec if you don't want to lose sec status? There are very few pirate groups out there that would give you any semblance of a fair fight. Other than that you would only enjoy the minerals that are marginally better than 0.5's, the rats that are almost nonexistant, and the sporadic lowsec sites that require you to run around like crazy anyways.

  • [-]
  • TK42OnE
  • 2 Points
  • 18:10:19, 21 February

I wish I knew enough about the game to give an informed opinion, but I don't so I'm more than happy to follow whatever course is chosen.

Its a game after all and none of these changes are really all that important. If you don't like them, simply leave the corp. Start your own. Matias did and look what happened. :)

What I can contribute is maybe some wisdom on how we should deal with one another.

This is a game. No matter what happens it it not important enough to insult another player, much less another corp member.

If someone insults you, or if you feel insulted, that is not excuse to make the same mistake.

Be the bigger man, suck it up, and ignore it.

Judging by the poll, whatever decision is made is going to piss off a lot of people. I do not envy Matias. I hardly think he envisioned all of this when he made his initial Reddit post those few short weeks ago.

If the decision that is made is not one you agree with I would hope people would act like adults and either accept it and make the best, or simply leave the corp with dignity and wish their former corp well.

  • [-]
  • haaxh
  • 3 Points
  • 19:48:17, 21 February

Joins corp so Matias can lead us to fun > bitches when Matias tries to lead us to fun. High fives all around.

  • [-]
  • Skullhedface1
  • 5 Points
  • 16:50:29, 21 February

This needs to be discussed on the forum. On reddit we have no idea if the person posting is even in the corp!

  • [-]
  • EccentricAccent
  • 4 Points
  • 19:21:58, 21 February

Nice idea, but anyone can join the corp. Not going to stop people trying to sabotage a rational discussion.

  • [-]
  • cardavet
  • 4 Points
  • 17:35:43, 21 February

The simplest solution to appease all the bittervets/alts/spais

lets move to lowsec give it 2 weeks or so to get acclimated to the change and THEN discuss FW

  • [-]
  • RaistEU
  • 3 Points
  • 16:27:20, 21 February

Just stick to your original decision. The only way you will be able not to piss of some members is by doing nothing and thus pleasing no one.

At one point or another we will pick a path, rather sooner then later and whatever path we choose will mean some members leave.

It's honestly baffeling to see the length at which some people oppose the FW choise. Are they really noobs? If they are then they never experienced FW and are complaining about something before experiencing it, and the whole idea is to experience every part, and now would be the FW part. If we don't like the FW part, we move away to something new....

The other side is people's alts who've already done or are doing FW. To them I'd say sorry but... this is a corp to figure stuff out, let's maybe figure out FW now?

And staying in Hek is no option because of all the station camping pussies. Going low-sec w/o FW is not going to do anything about the station games the WT's are playing, it just adds to the problem with pirate corps going lololol let's play station games with the noobs.

Going low-sec FW gives us added security ffs, and it gives some clear goals for our roams which will actually make us some isk as well... How the hell can you be opposed to this, just for the simple fact that you will loose access to a part of high sec. If you want to be a trader, start either an alt or join a trading corp or something, trading is... Well not really part of our "fuck shit up" policy imo. And you keep Rens, Amarr and more importantly Jita. so even if you are a trader by hearth you won't miss out that much.

Pff, all I see is just a bunch of irrational opposition by either people who say they don't like it even if they haven't done it, or people who have done it and just don't want their altcorp doing what they don't want.

Let's just do it and make up our minds after we've done it? We CAN leave FW if it doesn't work out you know. I was opposed to it before but now I have looked at it more and see clear goals, clear opportunities and added safety EVEN if we go to a warfront.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 8 Points
  • 16:43:01, 21 February

I don't understand how people think FW just makes the pirates and station campers go away. They do not care if you are apart of FW or not and tend to hang out in FW space more than non FW space.

If you believe that being apart of FW means pirates wont come after you then you are mistaken.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • 2 Points
  • 16:47:22, 21 February

I don't think FW is just about protecting the poor, poor newbies. It's also about giving a corp-wide objective for people to work towards to passively.

There will be station camps, but at least we'll have other friendly militias picking off ez kills that are dumb enough to float outside of a station for hours on end.

EDIT: I mean, think about it. Corp chat is a constant "LETS GO KILL MOFUCKAS, YEA." It's not a far-off idea.

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • 6 Points
  • 16:49:09, 21 February

The issue here isn't just the immediate loss of membership upon deciding, but how effectively we can replace those members.

If we go the FW route we have to recruit as an FW corp, explaining to new members what FW is before we can even start asking them to join.

If we go the lowsec route, we can continue to recruit newbies simply on the basis that they're newbies, and replace members just as fast as we're losing them.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • -4 Points
  • 17:08:34, 21 February

I will respectfully disagree. With a simple adjustment on our recruitment info, a player will steer clear of the space that would be hostile upon joining. When I was a newbie, I was so excited at all the prospects of -everything- that I read every bit of the fine print so that I "didn't mess up" and drag people down.

Being in a lo-sec only corp would turn away Amarrian-friendly militias, and would make us even more vulnerable to the station games. Think Hek is bad now? Wait till the camps are more frequent when Minmatar find out the newbies are holed up in X station. Plus, it'd be a logistical nightmare for our industrialists, robbing us of precious, precious T1 Frigs/Dessies.

As for membership count: We will lose people no matter what we do. If our CEO feels this will be fun (remember he's a newbie) then the people will gladly follow a fellow newbie. To get back on point, we will not be fleeting up with Fweddit save for taking large outposts, and other friendly militia members will be there as well. If we continue to show that we're a great corps for newbie from ground zero, we'll continue to get new members. That's what matters, and we need structure to help foster that.

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • 4 Points
  • 17:14:38, 21 February

You're not wrong, but consider what you're saying. Sure we can start recruiting as an FW corp, but what distinguishes us from Fweddit? I feel we'd be essentially competing for the exact same recruits, weakening both corps.

By doing something that isn't Nullsec, FW, or Wormholes we can attract redditors that are looking for something different.

How do you think we're going to get away with not competing with Fweddit by joining the Amarr FW?

  • [-]
  • lostidea
  • 1 Points
  • 17:28:59, 21 February

But what would we actually be doing? It sounds like it would end up being the same stuff that's done in high-sec, just in a low-sec environment. In my mind, there's no point in subjecting ourselves to more risks if the rewards that follow aren't proportional.

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • 1 Points
  • 17:48:18, 21 February

Train the corp rank & file to be "NBSI" (Not Blue Shoot It). We camp a particular pipline, and directors advertise that anyone wishing to pass through may do so safely by sending the corp $$$ each month/week/whatever for blue standings. If done successfully, this will keep the fleet in free thrashers/rifters/whatever for a long time.

Meanwhile, individuals will have a large chunk of lowsec to do exploration sites & L5 missions for personal profit.

This also assumes that everyone involved is a perfectly legitimate businessman making absolutely no ISK from scamming.

  • [-]
  • SaucyKing
  • 2 Points
  • 16:24:13, 21 February

I choose 2, because 1 will be much less newbie friendly. Imagine a situation like we have now, with constant gate/station camps, except we're not even close to a major trade hub. This will kill us, IMO. People will get disheartened when their shiny new ship blows up, and they get blown up again trying to get to wherever we've claimed as our home, right after buying a replacement. I don't recommend doing this until we get our industry guys to the point that we can become self-sufficient.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 2 Points
  • 16:39:47, 21 February

First there is nothing to suggest a move to low sec will leave us with constant gate camps and station camps. I have lived in low sec and i also am informed when it comes to various pirate corps and thier operations. Most pirates are not going to give two shits about station camping us. They are there for the pvp and don't want to always be fighting under gate/station guns.

Second why do you seem tho think that FW would stop gate camps and pirates? They don't care that you FW they shoot everyone and love to hang out in FW space because their are people to shoot.

Third new players will get disheartened either way. Regardless of being in FW or not you will get blown up that's just a simple fact of not being in HS all the time.

fourth if the corp goes FW then industry people will leave. Industry during FW is harder is not fun. And if BNI ever leaves FW after joining it industry people are not going to just come back.

  • [-]
  • SaucyKing
  • 1 Points
  • 16:57:04, 21 February

You bring up good points. I did not consider our industry guys in the middle of FW.

However, I believe FW will help with station camps because (correct me if I'm wrong) if someone wardec's a FW corp, they are free targets for the entire militia. I know it doesn't make a difference because low sec, but people will treat a flashing red target differently than a neutral one.

  • [-]
  • TheOneBlackMage
  • 2 Points
  • 17:06:26, 21 February

Is there a mechanic to deal with the Industry/supply chain within FW?

From what I've read, it has to be the entire corporation that joins FW. If you're part of an alliance, the entire alliance has to join FW. So there's no way to separate this unless separate corporations who aren't officially associated with each other are created. That's just a game mechanic, so it would be pretty easy to do and still organize everything, but splitting the corp up to protect the Industry members isn't an appealing option.

  • [-]
  • SaucyKing
  • 1 Points
  • 17:18:37, 21 February

Your statement is accurate. The implications for our industry guys pose some difficult issues.

An old corp I ran with, while not an FW corp, had a guy sit on our mining ops in a Hurricane or something similar to basically run security, and got a portion of the mining profits. I'm not sure what the percentage was or how much they got, but from what I understand mining ops always have guys running security anyway.

  • [-]
  • Gerrbo
  • 1 Points
  • 17:21:51, 21 February

We could split the corp up to do this. Just set the Industry corp to blue standing so no one accidentally shoots them. If that's something people want is an entirely different question though.

I don't think it'd be a bad thing though. As Ken has already said, the Industry guys pretty much operate independent of anything we do now anyway. They keep to themselves and only really interact with the main group to ask for some backup every now and then. So splitting the industry guys off wouldn't really change that.

  • [-]
  • TheOneBlackMage
  • 1 Points
  • 17:35:45, 21 February

I was just thinking of the difficulties they would have if BNI joined FW, and they suddenly couldn't access trade hubs.

Industry in lowsec does have some advantages:

  • Having your own POS is a lot cheaper (i think), and doesn't require standings to set up.
  • Also, stations have more manufacturing, research and copying slots for blueprints; they aren't backed up for months like they are in highsec.
  • Ore is better (although maybe not as significantly as null).

With all the lowsec discussion, there should certainly be a point (whether FW or not), to ensure there are intelligence channels, and fleet support to protect miners, haulers, etc in the lowsec "home" system.

  • [-]
  • paxNoctis
  • 2 Points
  • 19:16:46, 21 February

Yes, the mechanic is called "Black Frog".

You guys act like it's soooo hard to have an alt in an NPC corporation buy stuff and contract it to BF for hauling.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • -1 Points
  • 16:42:24, 21 February

I had a short stint in a low-sec pirating corp on my main, and there are some things that really surprise me that people are saying, namely how FW will restrict movement.

Being a low-sec corp at all restricts movement. At least with FW, you have targets that you can fire on at will and not lose sec status, plus we could scare off the small-gangers in certain outposts with our stupid amount of numbers. Plus, you will still have access to high-sec AND you will be able to access the two best trade hubs in the game (Jita, Amarr) so it'll be newbie friendly for people that want to mission in peace. No wardecs, and there are announcements in space if the enemy faction appears in the system, so a newbie does not have to learn the intricacies of D-scanning and looking at local 24/7 on day 1.

To touch on newbie friendliness: I was convinced away from Caldari FW because leadership claimed that we won't be fleeting up with Fweddit at all; it was a huge issue regarding BNI identity, and not being under the shadow of Fweddit. But Caldari FW is the best option when it comes to independence and you gain a lot of systems that don't have a ridiculous amount of people in it -- Don't forget that Minmatar have the largest Militia out of the four empires. To counterpoint, Fweddit as a "default ally" helps greatly, especially when it comes to the inevitable station games.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 1 Points
  • 17:59:52, 21 February

Option 1 is what the Brave Newbies I joined would do.

Option 2 is what a pack of PVP hungry alts and glory starved bittervets would do.

  • [-]
  • Skullhedface1
  • -1 Points
  • 18:38:20, 21 February

I'm a newbie and FW sounds great to me. A lot of us here want FW, so please stop making blanket statements. Just tell us how you feel. Don't try to speak for anyone else.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 1 Points
  • 18:48:15, 21 February

A lot of us also don't, and there is no blanket statement here, I think that tells you exactly how I feel. Look at any of the posts regarding the FW declaration, the silent majority obviously does not support it.

  • [-]
  • wotutalkinabaaat
  • 0 Points
  • 17:40:57, 21 February

initially i was against FW but i have just created an alt that i will use for FW and leave my main as a miner/trader

  • [-]
  • ddavis425
  • 0 Points
  • 17:46:22, 21 February

I'm all for joining FW. The whole point of this corp is to have fun trying out the different aspects of Eve. I'm sure that if it doesn't work out then we can leave FW and do something else.

  • [-]
  • morofhesame
  • 0 Points
  • 17:51:51, 21 February

Im for faction warfare. It will open a new avenue of gameplay, with a bit more structure for the uninitiated. Living in lowsec, with the large target on our backs that we have already accumulated will make things tough on those amongst us who are true newbies.

  • [-]
  • DrSpaceUnicorn
  • 2 Points
  • 17:55:10, 21 February

I said this in a similar thread but I'll say it agian. I think that we should just move the corp to lowsec and then make another corp specifically for faction warfare. This allows people to choose between the two and try them out without being forced into either, as well as stopping the debate about the pros and cons of FW. As for the people who like hisec warfare, there such a minority that they should probably just join RvB because the people who like that are such a minority in NBI that they would have only around 50-100 people if I remember the poll numbers correctly.

  • [-]
  • Squirrel2319
  • 0 Points
  • 18:29:57, 21 February

My vote is for Faction Warfare. I think that the benefits are huge and outweigh the drawbacks. We don't have the money or the skills yet to be able to fight off a large corporation. Capital ships can go into low-sec, I believe. This means that if we actually piss off a major corp enough to want to kill us, we would be station camped by titans. I definitely think Faction Warfare is the best way forward.

  • [-]
  • DarkoneN
  • 0 Points
  • 18:31:19, 21 February

FW was made to get new players into PVP. We get camped oh well that is what friends are for. If we have none FW is a bad idea if we do(trust me we do) Then this will be fun as hell as we work well together:D FW will give everyone a chance to make iskies :P I am in favor of all of this moving. We know how to deal with camps and we already roll low sec. (most run some don't) Low sec is not a option without FW or a alliance. Other option is find a dead high sec spot and grow the corp from there(train everyone up get mining up and going) Either way HEK is way to Hektic for us right now.

  • [-]
  • DarkoneN
  • 0 Points
  • 18:51:51, 21 February

Even if we moved to utou or what ever that system is one jump away our current war dek would not follow us they are very dependent on that station game. We have the ability to gate our system 24 hours a day. With a close to 24/7 mining operation it would more then likely happen as miners pay well for protection. Some of us can also pilot capitals pretty well. Make no mistake no one out there wants to mess with a bunch of careless noobs that do not care about their ships and risk losing a 1.5b capital.

  • [-]
  • eve-throwaway3483
  • 0 Points
  • 18:34:53, 21 February

I might point out that people not interested in Faction Warfare can simply not join those fleets, and create other fleets that simply attack neutrals. Setting foot in lowsec means you're going to be killed by Minmatar militia anyway if you're in their space (heck, we were wardecced and station-camped in Hek by some Minnie militia just this past week), being in a militia corp just means one lowsec region where most people won't attack you.

If you simply ignore the FW part of the corp and do your own lowsec thing, really the only drawback is the inability to enter parts of empire. I think this fear has been dramatically overstated.

  • [-]
  • Heliarc
  • 1 Points
  • 18:35:32, 21 February

I am torn because I love pvp and want to do as much of it as I can. I did a brief stint in a fw corp and it was fun but quite annoying only being able to go to certain systems etc.

Now knowing how much I love pvp if I were an industrialist I would be upset because my form of enjoyment in the eve verse is being cut in half.

I do think that regardless of what route the corp chooses we will lose a significant number of members. We are a high profile corp who will be targeted for quite awhile just because of who we are.

Me personally I want to pvp my days away with you guys no matter where we go. I am worried though if we go the fw route we will lose a lot of our financial backers.

7o

Tl; dr I like pvp and in my wall of text suggested nothing helpful.

  • [-]
  • kujib
  • 1 Points
  • 18:39:48, 21 February

Here is my main issue. Im from federation side. If we did fw ill loose all my federagion security statuses. Most of them are 8 or above. Plus 90prcent of my assets ae in federation space. If we joined i will be quiting..... However my alt is amarr and would be up for it with him.

  • [-]
  • Avi_Buffalo
  • 0 Points
  • 19:00:49, 21 February

Let's just let leadership make a call. Give it a shot. If it sucks we do something else. We are suppose to be Brave Newbies, not Over-analytical Newbies Corp.

  • [-]
  • MsgToObserver
  • 1 Points
  • 19:20:15, 21 February

i'm all for going to low sec and if the corp decides to go FW than I'm okay with that too. however, i prefer to not do FW. i love the independence of BNI and joining FW would end that. the arguments made towards setting up our industry and manufacturing before joining FW also make a lot of sense. we need to produce our own ships if we wish to survive at all, not just FW or where ever

  • [-]
  • smithsteruk
  • 1 Points
  • 19:52:52, 21 February

Simplest way I see it; find a lowsec system that isn't a FW system (Like Fweddit has Egg) and setup base there. those of you who want to pew can go into the FW area and kill militia without the status loss, and the guys who don't want to pew can head the other way into hisec and bear about. Make sure that (for simplicity) you pick a location next to your factions hisec.

It's gonna take a couple of weeks to establish the system as your own base from current residents/pirates but once they've been dealt with, get some POCO's up in system and start making isk.

I still don't get why people who want to pvp are against FW; They go hand in hand.

  • [-]
  • smithsteruk
  • 2 Points
  • 19:54:48, 21 February

Although. I'd also create an alt corp (like Brave Newbies Logistics); it's far easier to transport stuff that way (and the miners etc could join that one instead?)

  • [-]
  • dragonstalking
  • 2 Points
  • 19:55:42, 21 February

from an outside opinion, throwing in with faction warfare is a big mistake for you all.

brave newbies, imo, has become so popular because it is completely unaligned fun. people can come and go as they please, and keeping a hisec base is important for the genuine noobs in corp.

moving to lowsec or joining faction warfare will lose you the bulk of the players that fit your corps description, imo

next you'll be talking about moving to null and taking sov; just keep your corp as it is, or move to a different hisec/lowsec border

  • [-]
  • Hyper_Visor
  • 1 Points
  • 20:01:36, 21 February

Seems to me most of the negativity for FW is from reduced mobility in high sec... So why not create a new corp "Brave Indies Inc"? Separate from BNI, but blued to them.

This corp will provide the backbone to the BNI FW\Low-Sec effort, offering courier services, ships, supplies, and anything else. A corp focused in industry, blockade running, stealth mining, jump freighters, etc, etc.

Then it removes any talk about keeping near a trade hub, or losing standings, blah, blah, blah...

Wasn't the grind supposed to be left at the door in the BNI?

  • [-]
  • Ipilot
  • 1 Points
  • 16:55:23, 21 February

I'm all for FW, I joined this corp to try new things that perhaps will get me killed. I've never done any FW, but it seems to me that its a good way to make some ISK, something I've been having trouble doing since joining.

  • [-]
  • Hyper_Visor
  • 1 Points
  • 16:58:35, 21 February

As a Newbie looking to join, I can see FW will bring a clear focus to the corp, which will help new players in the short term. Especially new FCs in need of clear objectives for their fleets.

As experience in the corp grows, the direction will change also. But i'm not sure what my Gallente father will say if you side with Amarr/Caldari :[

  • [-]
  • TheOneBlackMage
  • 1 Points
  • 17:50:46, 21 February

Tell him you're going out to make your mark as a mercenary. I don't like those dirty slavers either, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to take their ISK.

  • [-]
  • Love-All-Humanity
  • 3 Points
  • 18:03:44, 21 February

What is the overall purpose of this corporation? Having followed BNI from /u/Suecotero's orginal post in /r/Eve, and joining and flying with you guys for the last week, this is what I've gathered:

  1. Have fun
  2. Bring newbies into the fold and teach them to be brave
  3. Emphasize managed-risk/high-reward activities, like Matias' original story about lowsec exploraton and ripping off a pirate
  4. Offer strength-in-numbers for noobs who want to try all of the things Eve has to offer

Anything I'm missing?

Whatever we decide to do needs to be weighed up against those goals. On the one hand, I'm all for a move to lowsec.

On the other hand, I have to say, I'm a bit saddened that we're letting ourselves be driven out by wardec-ing PvP'ers who are actually quite shitty at PvP.

It feels like we're leaving something unfinished, like there was a challenge that was too insurmountable that we couldn't overcome it with persistence and ingenuity. Instead of getting the corp together and saying "how do we get an army of bumpers together to grief the griefers?" we're saying "let's turn tail and run to lowsec where the griefers will be afraid of bigger fish, and then hope the bigger fish don't turn on us because we clearly couldn't handle the little fish in highsec."

  • [-]
  • Dewbydan
  • 1 Points
  • 18:15:23, 21 February

I am looking forward to Illfray's podcast, because after listening to him I was much more sold on the idea. This move will be a challenge, but it provides some things that our corp sorely needs. Direction, and isk. I have hardly had much fun flying around the last few days because it has all turned into station hide and seek, which nobody enjoys. Aimless roaming fleets are fun, but are not cost effective or very lucrative(fun).

With FW in place we will all always have something to do when we log on. There will always be a wealth of pvp content available to us (because lets be honest, we are a pvp corp), and instead of grabbing loot and having to throw it into the corp hanger, we will be awarded with LP which we can use to buy fun ships (and sell them for $profit$).

Aligning with Amarr doesn't have to change our fleet doctrine, as all the FC's here are open to letting you fly what you want. Not only that, it is much better to have Fweddit as an ally than an enemy. I know people cry afoul saying we don't want to be their bitch, but I am sure they will change their tune after being stationcamped by capital ships for 3 days with no real backup available.

Finally, none of this is permanent. I would suggest that we do a trial period (a month) of FW with Amarr. After that we see what we like and what we don't and make a decision from there. The last thing I want is to stay in Hek though. So lets drive forward, and cross these bridges when we get there. I have an immense amount of trust and respect in our leadership. I know that Mat and Illfray have done a LOT of work to try and make this happen, so lets roll with it and have fun. If we don't like it, we can try something else later.

  • [-]
  • Skullhedface1
  • 0 Points
  • 18:51:09, 21 February

Let's do FW!!! What, are you afraid of?!? We're the brave newbies and we can do whatever the hell we want!!!

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • -1 Points
  • 16:26:11, 21 February

Personally, I vote that we move into Rancer and/or Tama and kick out the existing pirate empires there. We can then start charging tolls to use the now-clear pipleines between Jita, Rens, and Dodixie.

This allows us to still remain newbro friendly, not care about wardecs, and have full access to highsec for those that want it.

Furthermore, Reddit already has an 'official' Nullsec Corp (/r/evedreddit), an 'official' FW corp (/r/fweddit), and a couple of 'official' WH corps. The only niche not covered is a general piracy/hisec wardec corp, and I think you guys have already done an oustanding job lining yourselves up to do just that.

Since a Rancer/Tama HQ would keep us so close to "home" we could also do the occasional wardec vs. RvB or EveUni when we're bored.

Conversely, if we go forward with the FW plan, I predict that we will lose 50% of our membership within a week, and recruitment will almost immediately drop off. I've seen it before, and I'm seeing it again.

  • [-]
  • AngrySeal
  • 3 Points
  • 16:38:20, 21 February

I have no idea if this could work, but it sounds amazingly fun.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • 1 Points
  • 16:51:57, 21 February

If it was Molden Heathe we could could move in tomorrow. Rancer is a whoooooooooooole other ballgame.

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • 1 Points
  • 17:02:27, 21 February

Then let's do that! Rancer is just the first system that came to mind.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • 4 Points
  • 16:51:23, 21 February

I was okay with that thought until I remembered you mentioned Tama or Rancer to kick them out. Expecting us to stomp BS's equipped with Smartbombs 24/7 is extremely lofty; we have issues with frigs, a crusier, and logis outside of Hek as-is.

As for your other points, leadership claimed we're not going to be under Fweddit's shadow. We're all going to shit up a storm if we're fleeting with Fweddit, and I myself will leave BNI if we become a Fweddit recruitment corp.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 4 Points
  • 16:31:39, 21 February

You really think you are going to kick out the local pirates? EVE-U tried that and got kicked out of low sec.

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • -3 Points
  • 16:37:58, 21 February

Be brave little feller.

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 4 Points
  • 16:44:41, 21 February

Lol sorry for actually having a clue about this game.

  • [-]
  • nmgoh2
  • -1 Points
  • 16:52:21, 21 February

85mil SP and counting man. I didn't say it would be easy, actually I'm kinda banking on it being very difficult. That'll give us a solid objective to chew on for quite awhile - not to mention a few free Eve News callouts.

  • [-]
  • PatchYourselfUp
  • 3 Points
  • 16:55:15, 21 February

85m SP and you're riling up newbies to try and take over Rancer?

obvious rancer alt spotted

  • [-]
  • singlefuckgiven
  • 1 Points
  • 16:54:30, 21 February

I think a lot of what Illfay was saying last night made sense, and from what I saw the vast majority of people in mumble were in agreeance. The forum poll should have been taken with a grain of salt because our corp is 1400 strong, and only 1/2 ended up voting. I for one couldn't even find it on the forums.

Second, Illfray put a lot of importance on not backing down from a decision once its made, I agree strongly with that point, however I think a little more advance notice would've done a lot of good for the corp. By backing out and opening it up for discussion the drama floodgates are going to open up big time. People will be upset no matter what. People will threaten to leave no matter what. Just go with your original decision, see how it goes. Nothing is permanent and regardless of what ends up happening, the corp will be stronger because of those who decide to stay, not weaker because of those who decide to leave.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 2 Points
  • 17:54:37, 21 February

If this corp is going to act non-democratically, and follow the whims of a select few, then it is not the corp for me, and I know many others will follow. Give it a couple weeks, and you'll see more. It's already begun, and being a FW corp will drastically reduce future recruits who aren't already bittervets, spies, or bitter-alts.

  • [-]
  • phobos_motsu
  • -1 Points
  • 18:30:11, 21 February

Split down the middle? OK, it's close, but...

58% support joining Faction Warfare (with 66% of those in favour of joining Amarr/Caldari)

41% support not joining Faction Warfare

1% support staying in high-sec

I'd say that's pretty conclusively in favour of FW, albeit with a strong dissenting group.

I think Faction Warfare has clear advantages for us newbies in fun PvP over going plain low-sec, and over staying high-sec. I'm not too worried about losing access to half of high-sec... especially if we keep access to Jita, Amarr, etc. Ok, we have to be careful about planning routes, but we are already on high alert... we'll lose standing to the enemy factions, but if we go be lowsec pirates we'll lose sec status anyway. We're tired of station games and lame snipers in battlecruisers, FW can provide us with the epic frigate-on-frigate action we crave!

Good points are being made about not being prepared for the logistics. Will us newbs be able to make enough money to keep ourselves, and the corp, in supply? How safe is it for our miners in friendly territory?

  • [-]
  • Lifeweaver
  • 1 Points
  • 19:35:09, 21 February

That poll is open to anyone including fweddit people. And yesterday it Low without FW was taking a large lead then in a matter of 15 min joining amarr just suddenly jumped up with makes me very suspicious of the results.

And newbs should be able to make enough to keep buy thrashers but not to be able to buy T2 fitted cruisers. The corps money will stay low with taking doantions from other large corps/alliances and mining will be nonexistent.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 0 Points
  • 19:07:00, 21 February

This is all bullshit, people, as of a few minutes ago, offices in and around Amarr FW space have been set up. Just check your corp details page. It is and has been plainly obvious that our leadership is dead set on Faction Warfare. Those of us against FW are being pandered to, plain and simple.

  • [-]
  • Suecotero
  • 2 Points
  • 19:11:49, 21 February

Don't be dramatic. It is what we originally had planned and we wanted to be as prepared as possible, but since there has been a lot of discussion I wanted to talk about it. Offices can always be changed.

  • [-]
  • xpop_tartsx
  • 3 Points
  • 19:28:58, 21 February

Matias. You want to talk about it great. but why would the offices be setup during this conversation? Didn't you just say "this is not discussion on which FW faction we are joining, but about whether we join FW at all. If FW wins out, then we talk about factions."

It appears that someone is making the decisions without listening to the corp. Be it you or another leader this is kind of behavior is unacceptable.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 0 Points
  • 19:23:42, 21 February

You post THIS thread, then just a few hours later offices pop up right in the middle of Amarr FW territory. I am not being dramatic, Matias, I am just showing it like it is. You are preparing for FW in Amarr space despite the concerns of a number of your corpmates. If you really wanted to talk about it, you would have waited to install those offices, it's not like it takes days to do so.

  • [-]
  • eve-throwaway3483
  • 2 Points
  • 19:47:33, 21 February

The two popular options are FW, and lowsec without FW. Either way, some offices in lowsec may be useful. And he might as well prepare for one or both options, there's no real cost except Matias's time if those offices go unused because we decided otherwise.

Chill.

  • [-]
  • xpop_tartsx
  • 1 Points
  • 19:56:05, 21 February

The problems here are that:

  1. You said we we would discuss the issue then make a decision on where to go.

If you build offices in a certain part of space during the conversation. When there still isnt a clear idea of what is going on then that doesnt look good to you listening to us.

  1. You are claiming that this may be useful for logistics. But you didnt consult any of the Industrial officers.

This just shows the main problem we have now is communication. Between are leaders and the Leaders and the Pilots.

  • [-]
  • rehsarht
  • 1 Points
  • 20:10:00, 21 February

You needed a throwaway for that response?

  • [-]
  • adaptablefuton
  • 2 Points
  • 19:55:30, 21 February

I would like to point out that offices dont mean anything they cost next to nothing and are convient to have EVERYWHERE. If having an office in a station is reason to say we are definitely moving than test is moving to Jita because they have offices in every station surrounding that system.

  • [-]
  • Dracoaeon
  • -1 Points
  • 17:38:48, 21 February

I think joining FW would be nice to get rid of the random deaths from wardeced players. I'd much rather have a place where to head for some guaranteed action instead of standing on my toes where I could get screwed any time.

FW would be bad in some ways for newbies in would-be hostile territory, but I think in the end it's still easier to give someone a briefing regarding FW than Wardec gate/station campers. FW would also open up some nice ways to get ISK in fleets for newbies.

So I pick option 2. I'm open for either one.

  • [-]
  • Avi_Buffalo
  • 1 Points
  • 18:26:14, 21 February

Is it possible to have different divisions? Have a HQ for each division? Miners stage in a high sec HQ. Mission runners stage in another mission HQ. Low sec dwellers base in a low sec HQ. This is now a VERY large corp. Everyone has a different idea of fun. Many different career possibilities. No reason we can't cater to all. I guess the main hold up is FW or not to FW. That decision could ultimately effect everything I listed above.

  • [-]
  • shift8creative
  • 1 Points
  • 19:04:00, 21 February

I really think FW is the way. Right now this corp attracts WAY too much attention and every hot shot out there wants to go to war with it...Especially because they know that we're mostly in frigates and destroyers and it's easy. It's easy to single out someone trying just to get to Hek. There's no med bay there...We can't jump clones... It's terrible.

A move is necessary for sure. Is FW? I don't know...But I personally think the original thinking was correct. We should have less people declaring war and that's good. Less harassment is good.

Most of the arguments against FW can be resolved by simply creating an alt. You can move things around with an alt. Nuf sed.

That's basically what I'm doing now anyway. I'm running skill books and resources to my character in Hek because it's pinned and will get popped if I go outside the station (at the wrong time).

Let's not forget to mention that we have war targets who get alts to use remote armor repairers on them and abuse the high security rules of the game to make the challenge even greater. We stand no chance where we are right now - though have done EXCEPTIONALLY well. Bringing down very expensive ships...It's great, but not sustainable.

I know, as a newer player (though I played 7 years ago), that I don't really want to be stuck in one spot. I want to be able to move around more freely. Sure risk...but not suicide.

Anyone not wanting to end all of these ridiculous wars and is voting the other way I believe would be an alt spy or misinformed.

It makes ZERO SENSE to stay and have every corporation in the game declare war on us. All I know is that this corporation will fail and everyone will leave if that goes on for too long. I'm not an expert at the game, but that much I promise.

So yes. Move. But what's wrong with FW??

  • [-]
  • SetnaKane1
  • -1 Points
  • 17:04:12, 21 February

You may say we will ge all of he suppor we need on he indusrial side bu here is no way o have an induisrial side when we don have he suff we need or ryiong o mine in FW