What are some of the more unorthodox ways you make/save money? (self.Frugal)

595 ups - 176 downs = 419 votes

See my comment for my examples.

841 comments submitted at 16:14:14 on Feb 19, 2013 by dirtymoney

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 147 Points
  • 17:48:33, 19 February

I use a set of bots to goldfarm in an MMO. Cobbled together a PC from old parts last year, and have since upgraded it a bit, though it's payed for itself a few times over. Averages ~500 USD a month with minimal (maybe 2 hours a week) input. I have no moral qualms about it (video games are dumb), and it pays for my electricity, car and cellphone.

  • [-]
  • Vanetia
  • 281 Points
  • 18:49:17, 19 February

>(video games are dumb)

Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  • [-]
  • puge12
  • 24 Points
  • 18:20:50, 19 February

Any chance you share what game you can still make $500 per month farming gold?

  • [-]
  • Grabowerful
  • 40 Points
  • 20:32:31, 19 February

Usually its runescape.

  • [-]
  • cardboardphone
  • 6 Points
  • 00:48:54, 20 February

Didn't they set up some sort of trade limits in runescape like..half a decade ago?

  • [-]
  • Ekkosangen
  • 2 Points
  • 01:42:31, 20 February

It was removed a little while back because it was stupid.

  • [-]
  • colliemayne
  • 0 Points
  • 05:08:31, 20 February

but you all should vote for 2007scape while we're on the topic

  • [-]
  • Ekkosangen
  • 1 Points
  • 05:48:22, 20 February

I've been loosely following that, and even if I were a subscriber I probably wouldn't vote for it because I really don't see the point. Just seems like a bunch of very vocal nostalgia whores whined for long enough that Jagex finally got sick of hearing it. If there's another perspective I haven't seen, please feel free to enlighten me.

  • [-]
  • Druzl
  • 1 Points
  • 06:09:06, 20 February

Your putting it in a very negative context, it's basically been accepted by a large amount of the community that the game has been going downhill for a while now. What you label nostalgia is people wanting to go back to a version of the game that hasn't been marinating in shit. Game honestly was better back then

  • [-]
  • Ekkosangen
  • 1 Points
  • 06:17:48, 20 February

As bad as you make it out to be, is rolling back every update from the past 5 years and resetting everyone back to square one the solution? What's so different back then that makes it so much better than the modern day game?

  • [-]
  • Druzl
  • 1 Points
  • 06:27:31, 20 February

6 less years of Jagex meddling. They kind of suck at listening to their own player base, not sure why since that's what they are getting paid from.

More Comments - Not Stored
  • [-]
  • colliemayne
  • 0 Points
  • 06:30:02, 20 February

It's more than just nostalgia. I, as well as all of the advocates, enjoyed the game then much more than now.

  • [-]
  • Ekkosangen
  • 1 Points
  • 06:34:25, 20 February

I keep hearing that, but what was it exactly that made the game more enjoyable then, and/or less enjoyable now?

  • [-]
  • colliemayne
  • 0 Points
  • 06:59:01, 20 February

I was turned off by all the updates as of late. For example the graphics or all new weapons that kind of ruined the triangle. For me, I just did not like the new ways they were going. I can't blame them, I understand they're for profit but it turned me away. The new combat system and combat level system killed it for me. I liked that it was a simple browser game on the exterior.

More Comments - Not Stored
  • [-]
  • Molehole
  • 13 Points
  • 20:54:39, 19 February

Friend used to make over 100€ month in Runescape

  • [-]
  • GeoM56
  • 14 Points
  • 18:05:35, 19 February

Could you elaborate?

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 40 Points
  • 22:40:24, 19 February

Runescape had (I'm not sure if it still does) a program where the first month of your payed subscription was significantly reduced. So every month, or whenever a bot would get banned, I would simply set up another one. Generally I would have them doing easy, repeatable tasks (fishing/farming etc), this would change fairly rapidly whenever a new bot would come out exploiting a niche market (usually crafting/enchanting), and that would last until enough botters had crashed that market, I'm sure this is still viable. I got sick of the upkeep and time requirement, so I decided to significantly level these characters up to grind monsters that dropped (usually singular) expensive items.

This is definitely preferable, the ban rate on my bots dropped virtually to nothing (Jagex has a real problem banning "legitimate" looking bots, even if this is what "players" actually are). I also don't have to make a new accounts every few weeks, which of course is more expensive, but this is offset by their earning potential. You WILL have to pay for "premium" bots if you don't know how to code (I don't), there WILL be membership fees, electricity costs, and, though rare, potential upkeep on the machine you use to farm with.

That 500 USD mark is what I take away in profit usually, when discounting the membership fees and bot fees. Once or twice it's dipped to below 250, as Jagex occasionally farts out a pitiful "bot countermeasure" that will stop "production" for a few days on average. On a few occasions a bot would get "stuck" regularly after these updates, and you just have to restart it every so often until the programmers update the bot which is of course annoying. On average I spend about 15 minutes a day checking their website, email, paypal, the botting websites and my bots to make sure everything is in working order, it's all very routine to me now, but it really did take a large initial time investment.

I won't elaborate specifically on what my bots do (competition lol), but I can also elaborate on hardware specifications and utilizations if you want.

  • [-]
  • RDandersen
  • 28 Points
  • 23:47:53, 19 February

In case it's still unclear to people who don't know how MMOs work, most have an ingame economy. With the ingame currency you can buy anything from a feather to put in your hat to the super-ultra mega destroyer weapon of doomyness or a key that opens a secret area. You do job X or Z and is rewarded with the in-game currency and/or loot.

Job X requires very little effort and yields a very tiny reward for the time invested. Job Z requires a lot of effort and yields an exponentially larger reward.
Job Z, however, is often limited by weekly caps, group play requirements, strength of your characters or something similar, whereas Job X is just a timesink most MMOs have so there's always "something you can do" which will give you a measurable reward, regardless of how microscopic of a scale is required to measure it.

Almost all MMOs follow a similar structure to this, part of what makes them so addictive. All MMOs I know of have a "job X" and is something simple like "right click... now! rinse, repeat to earn 0.02 money." Programming a bot to right click every 20 second and starting it when you go to sleep means that after 8 hours of sleep you made almost 30 moneys. Do that every day while sleeping or at work and even the simplest of jobs will add up to a lot after a lot.

Most games will then have a "black market" outside of the game where you can trade your ingame currency to a buyer who will have paid you, via Paypal typically. It's a "black market" because most publishers frown upon or outlaw any activities related to bots. A few embrace it, like Eve or Diablo 3, but others try to futilely ban people's free or $20 accounts while the players are making 100s of dollars from those accounts.

Most players of the games where it's "illegal" know about this, but the player base seems to have the same view on this activity as the general internet population has on movie and music pirating.

  • [-]
  • Ekkosangen
  • 1 Points
  • 01:58:55, 20 February

Just a quick note on EVE's method of this: The way it's handled is through the in-game economy in the form of an item that grants game time, rather than actual money. There is still a "black market" surrounding it where you could purchase currency with real money, and you'll generally get more currency for your money, but it is strictly forbidden and CCP has been known to reverse these trades (often leaving the player with a large negative balance) along with a time ban.

Bots are also present, especially so when it comes to mining in high security space. However, I know people who have gotten quite good at spotting (and blowing up) bots in zero security space.

  • [-]
  • RDandersen
  • 1 Points
  • 02:15:44, 20 February

I was under the impression that trading the pilot licences for ISK was allowed, though? Is that part not true, or is just ignored in the search for bigger fish to fry?

  • [-]
  • Ekkosangen
  • 1 Points
  • 03:27:58, 20 February

It is allowed, that's the method that was created and is endorsed by CCP. There's a seperate black market that's directly cash for ISK that they don't allow.

  • [-]
  • schmoggert
  • 1 Points
  • 04:30:54, 20 February

Thanks for explaining that.. so I'm guessing the buyers are just people who are really into the game, and willing to spend real $ for game $?

  • [-]
  • Mackelsaur
  • 1 Points
  • 00:24:52, 20 February

How do you figure Diablo 3 embraces bots and black markets? Do you mean by implementing the real-world money auction house? I think to state that they embrace bots is a bit of a stretch in that case.

  • [-]
  • RDandersen
  • 2 Points
  • 00:57:08, 20 February

Not the bot part, but WoW, by the same publisher, has made any conversion of in game currency to real money "illegal" regardless of how either was acquired while Diablo 3 is basically built around that concept. I don't think there's any botting in D3 that comes close to WoW or Runescape and the black market still exists in spite of the ingame auction house, but D3 has embraced making real money with the game.

Anyhow, Mi5anthr0pe explained well what botting was, I was just explaining how botting could be used to make real money.

  • [-]
  • Zartla
  • 2 Points
  • 00:30:43, 20 February

"I won't elaborate specifically on what my bots do (competition lol), but I can also elaborate on hardware specifications and utilizations if you want" Please do? Also, did you pay for the bot scripts, or make them yourself?

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 4 Points
  • 01:03:14, 20 February

>did you pay for the bot scripts, or make them yourself?

Like I said, I can't code, so I indeed payed for my scripts. There are plenty of free scripts, but the quality varies.

>Hardware

Sure, I started with an I3 2120, which was honestly the best part in the case. Currently, the box runs a 3770k, slightly OC'd to 4.2GHZ with a Corsair H80 running only with a pull fan (far less dust build up) - 32 gigs of low voltage Gskill ram - Seasonic 500watt PSU - Sapphire 7850 (1gb) - 30gig SSD - moderately priced Gigabyte board - NZXT Phantom 410- half dozen "quiet" case fans for airflow. With the exception of the processor, I purchased everything at a significant discount, I didn't buy it all at once.

The 32 gigs of ram IS necessary, though honestly the bottleneck with the CPU is pretty close, I don't really intend to scale up, I'm content with my setup. I wouldn't recommend a 3570k because it lacks hyperthreading, which helps quite a bit. The GPU, which is a mid range card really is necessary, it stays very cool, I didn't OC it and it takes a tremendous load OFF of the CPU, I don't even think the motherboard has onboard video, and I wouldn't recommend it. Some folks who are more serious about botting seem to have great results with cheap Opteron processors, usually running on multi-CPU server boards, though I have no experience with that. The SSD is only there because of low power consumption, which is the same for the low voltage ram, most of the power consumption comes from the CPU. You honestly don't need a liquid cooler, but it was a dirt cheap 'open box' and I couldn't pass it up.

Your results will definitely vary, but I can run over a dozen high level bots. I leave a little bit of space (enough for maybe 2 throwaway accounts) to jump on those exploitive/niche scripts when they come around (though rare) - this is necessary anyway because ram usage can fluctuate a lot.

  • [-]
  • stirfrizzle
  • 2 Points
  • 01:11:19, 20 February

I used to play Runescape and I dabbled in bots a little bit when I wanted to get those last few levels.

Do you sell the actual goods (addy ore, etc) for the cash or sell the goods on RS, then trade gold for cash? How do you do the trade? Ebay or otherwise?

I'm actually interested in this. lol

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 3 Points
  • 01:24:08, 20 February

I don't do resource collection anymore, it's usually big ticket items, these are unfortunately less stable, but it's very easy to repurpose the accounts if something better comes along. I'll do collection from the bots every few weeks using a primary account to sell them ingame on the GE, this account holds the money until I actually make the transaction, which has always been within the first few days of the month since I've been using this reseller. I use Paypal and only trade in gold.

  • [-]
  • 2pointeight
  • 7 Points
  • 21:43:29, 19 February

I just started farming for TF2, people and their hats -__-

My computer is already on most of the time and and i have all this ram that isn't being used so might as well put it to work.

  • [-]
  • -Pirate
  • 4 Points
  • 22:19:18, 19 February

How can you farm in tf2 if items are capped weekly?

  • [-]
  • 2pointeight
  • 1 Points
  • 22:57:54, 19 February

You have multiple accounts, on top of using a program called sandboxie to run more than one game at once, dependent mostly on how much ram you have.

With 8gb of ram and an i53570K (not oc'd) I can run 8 games simultaneously and still have ~1gb still being unused

  • [-]
  • testmypatience
  • 2 Points
  • 23:44:38, 19 February

I have a brand new computer and 16GB RAM with ability to add in 16 more. Mind pming me some info so I can do this? I wouldn't mind a few extra bucks.

  • [-]
  • Allikuja
  • 1 Points
  • 02:55:37, 20 February

Because inevitably there will be someone who doesn't want to work for something, but is willing to pay someone else to do the work for them.

  • [-]
  • JadeLana
  • 3 Points
  • 23:27:35, 19 February

I've never figured out the damn hats. Do you actually play the game or do you just run around in game and collect hats via time or randomness? (It seems to me that I earn hats randomly, so I have no idea.)

  • [-]
  • 2pointeight
  • 1 Points
  • 00:01:03, 20 February

hats are random dropped in addition to weapons. an account has about ~8-12 drops a week. you can craft weapons into metal and 18 weapons make a refined and you can trade about 1.66 (1ref 2 reclaimed) metal to trade for a craft hat. an undesirable/common hat. and you can craft two hats into a new hat all random. and then you can also un box hats from crates with keys. Keys can be bought with metal as well.

The part about making profit is acquiring new weapons from an update selling them for more than a 1:1 weapon trade, and trading dropped hats for metal. In addition you can get keys via metal, then sell on black market via paypal; or even the new community market where you get steam wallet money

acquire weapons > craft metal > trade for keys > sell on black market or community market > profit

  • [-]
  • Ikarus3426
  • 8 Points
  • 21:41:30, 19 February

How many bots do you have to have going to make a profit? I would imagine it would have to be a lot, but I always see people talking about how easy it is on Reddit.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 5 Points
  • 22:52:13, 19 February

As many as your PC will handle is the easy answer, I have a dedicated machine for it now. Bots can do different things and they will produce different amounts of gold depending. I now go for the maximum per-bot amount, which of course usually requires some prerequisite botting (increasing combat level etc), which of course takes time and gets you no profit until the bot is capable of performing the actual intended task. It also depends if you want to run 24/7 or not, personally I do now, but when I started I would only do 12 hours at a time for fear of getting a mass ban - which still hasn't happened, but certainly there's that potential.

It's generally not worth running just one or two, is the only reliable answer I can give you. It IS eventually easy if you're willing to make initial learning time investments and then you only need to keep yourself regularly updated on important changes.

  • [-]
  • judethedude
  • 1 Points
  • 05:33:02, 20 February

Hey nice job man, are you using RSbot? Simba? Tribot?

  • [-]
  • Ikarus3426
  • 0 Points
  • 22:55:18, 19 February

Cool. Thanks. I doubt I'd ever follow through and do this, but I'm glad you had the initiative to get some easy money.

  • [-]
  • Jackmangold
  • 0 Points
  • 04:56:41, 20 February

How did you get around the thing Jagex set up so that people can't run runescape on multiple tabs/windows at once?

  • [-]
  • egmcnuggets
  • 4 Points
  • 21:29:48, 19 February

Do you sell your gold to a website, or directly to a player?

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 17 Points
  • 22:14:37, 19 February

This is one question I'll answer. I used to deal a lot with individual players, and you generally make more money this way as you can sell at the same value as vendors. There are two major problems with this; A, lots of generally small payments gets tedious. B, there was an overwhelming amount of players who would "Charge back" on Paypal, forcing you to start with small transactions with every person to build 'trust'. I eventually found another "individual" who would buy my gold in bulk for slightly higher than the major farming resellers and it's been a pretty sweet, hassle free compromise.

  • [-]
  • hikemhigh
  • -1 Points
  • 21:39:40, 19 February

I would like to know this too

  • [-]
  • eccentricguru
  • 9 Points
  • 22:46:44, 19 February

You're an asshole.

  • [-]
  • missingpiece
  • 2 Points
  • 06:01:40, 20 February

MMO's are exploitation. Their creators are assholes for developing a product that exploits the human mind. Here's a video of the creators of Super Meat Boy discussing a game one of their creators made to showcase this.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • -2 Points
  • 22:59:36, 19 February

Honestly, what I do is a drop in the bucket, I know it impacts other players experience negatively, but if it keeps people from playing an MMO, then I'm doing the world a service, IMO. I've always viewed the internet and computers as a tool to serve humans, what you take out should always be more than you put in. Just so you know, this is exactly how every MMO developer views their player base, for better or worse.

  • [-]
  • DrJanus
  • 1 Points
  • 04:20:01, 20 February

You have one fucked up mind.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 0 Points
  • 04:29:23, 20 February

Maybe? I don't honestly see what the big deal is.

  • [-]
  • mellokind
  • 0 Points
  • 04:51:33, 20 February

And that's the problem. Your unbalanced mind fails to recognize that there even is a problem.

  • [-]
  • eccentricguru
  • 5 Points
  • 23:09:32, 19 February

So you do something shitty that negatively affects people, but it's alright because there are other people doing that same shitty thing... on what planet is this a valid defense?

Of course computers are a tool to serve humans. People put their time into a game and get entertainment out of it. It's not really your place to tell people what they do for entertainment is stupid...lets be honest, you mostly feel that way just so you can feel justified by making a quick buck at their expense.

  • [-]
  • The_STD_In_STUD
  • 0 Points
  • 05:18:01, 20 February

Welcome to Earth. This is your first time I presume?

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • -4 Points
  • 23:31:26, 19 February

>So you do something shitty that negatively affects people, but it's alright because there are other people doing that same shitty thing... on what is this a valid defense?

Two wrongs don't make a right, but really, a 'drop in the bucket' is an overstatement.

>It's not really your place to tell people what they do for entertainment is stupid

Hanging out with some friends, killing some time playing Halo or whatever I don't have a problem with. But sinking hundreds of hours into a game doing menial tasks to achieve whatever seems incredibly unhealthy, and I don't have sympathy for the folks that want to do that, even if it is their "right". I have an actual job, so to me, spending 3 hours of wage/salary to obtain something that would otherwise take 50+ hours of freetime seems far more reasonable. That's what this facilitates.

  • [-]
  • eccentricguru
  • 6 Points
  • 23:42:28, 19 February

It doesn't matter what seems incredibly unhealthy to you - it's what people do for entertainment, and you're ruining part of the game. Now you're justifying it with the logic that you think they're unhealthy and you don't care about the feelings of people who do things you deem as unhealthy. Also, here's a newsflash for you - most people who play those games do so for an hour or two a day on average....which seems like an incredibly normal and healthy amount of time to spend on entertainment - but you make the game worse for them too.

  • [-]
  • We_Should_Be_Reading
  • 3 Points
  • 03:07:56, 20 February

Dude, don't bother even arguing morality with this guy:

>Remember that scene from 28 weeks later when the shit hits the fan? They decided the risk in sorting out the people from the zombies wasn't worth so they just firebombed the whole goddamn thing. At this point vaporizing London/Paris would be a net positive IMO, a lot of Brits are going the way of the Nords and really aren't worth saving. There's at least some dignity in that.

Honestly, someone who says shit like that is not worth talking to.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • -6 Points
  • 23:54:39, 19 February

I don't utilize "slave labor" like the Chinese prisons, and I don't use the money to fund illegal, harmful activities, I don't use stolen accounts, and I don't steal my membership access. Be angry at Jagex, they could very easily fix the problem and they won't because people like me bring them a lot of money.

  • [-]
  • metalex9
  • 4 Points
  • 03:26:47, 20 February

I don't give a fuck about you farming, I really don't, but you're not a fucking hero for making video games shittier to play. I expect next you'll be pissing on donuts since you have no sympathy for fat people? You'd be "doing the world a service."

If you're gonna be an asshole, don't try to justify it with some bullshit. Just own up to it.

And no, I don't even play MMOs or sink hundreds of hours in video games, I'm not some pissed-off nerd.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 0 Points
  • 03:43:54, 20 February

>but you're not a fucking hero

Never said I was.

>I expect next you'll be pissing on donuts since you have no sympathy for fat people?

Nobody would eat a pissed on donut, but people keep playing Runescape regardless of the bots.

>I'm not some pissed-off nerd

Yes you are.

  • [-]
  • metalex9
  • 1 Points
  • 06:23:57, 20 February

>then I'm doing the world a service

Read: "I'm a fucking hero."

EDIT: Since you've been reduced to making personal attacks I'll just assume you've had enough.

  • [-]
  • goatpriest
  • 0 Points
  • 20:06:52, 19 February

Cheers, fellow farmer. I'm laughing at the people asking for you to share more details, as if that wouldn't negatively affect your earnings in any way.

  • [-]
  • Zoler
  • 23 Points
  • 20:31:59, 19 February

People are interested because it's very unlikely it's true.

  • [-]
  • AlwaysHlGH
  • 14 Points
  • 20:36:23, 19 February

Definitely true, made a few grand over the past year with a similar small-scale gold farming operation on Runescape. Most gold farmers are extremely paranoid about their methods being released and ruined (usually by larger gold farmers), so I wouldn't expect any specifics from OP.

  • [-]
  • dominoid07
  • 3 Points
  • 21:20:36, 19 February

I thought you couldn't do that on runescape anymore. Weren't they banning everyone that used bots or sold gold?

  • [-]
  • iLikeToBiteMyNails
  • 4 Points
  • 22:19:17, 19 February

Where there is a will, there is a way.

  • [-]
  • AlwaysHlGH
  • 2 Points
  • 01:21:55, 20 February

Jagex would like to claim they did. They broke certain bots, but they're always quickly replaced. Personally I used RiD and Simba, both which have extremely low ban rates. As for goldsellers, I've never once heard of anyone being banned for RWT

  • [-]
  • missPANK
  • 1 Points
  • 03:09:27, 20 February

Yeah, and people who pirate movies and music are all being arrested as we speak.

  • [-]
  • president-nixon
  • 1 Points
  • 04:00:19, 20 February

>People are interested because they find it very unlikely it's true.

FTFY

  • [-]
  • viper2g1
  • 3 Points
  • 18:06:54, 19 February

Which game do you do this in?

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 2 Points
  • 22:40:30, 19 February

As others have suggested, primarily Runescape.

  • [-]
  • tk6215
  • 1 Points
  • 18:40:44, 19 February

Could you elaborate please?

  • [-]
  • Sententia1309
  • -3 Points
  • 18:44:49, 19 February

Probably WoW

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • -1 Points
  • 22:40:41, 19 February

Posted above.

  • [-]
  • makuab
  • 0 Points
  • 00:15:22, 20 February

I used to do this as well, but the bot provider (RSBots) went out of business or something.

  • [-]
  • stirfrizzle
  • 1 Points
  • 03:45:39, 20 February

Another question: could you perhaps share your rate of how much $$ you charge for how much gp?

Apologies for the disjointed replies. I'm on a phone. d:

  • [-]
  • pcorlatan
  • 0 Points
  • 04:07:18, 20 February

FYI the past tense of "pay" is "paid", not "payed". I noticed you used payed in a couple different comments so just letting you know.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 2 Points
  • 04:09:35, 20 February

Oh, uh, thanks.

  • [-]
  • dPuck
  • 1 Points
  • 04:38:49, 20 February

Could you explain what the actual negative impact on the game is? There are an unlimited number of respawns and drops so you aren't exactly taking away the opportunities of real players. And people don't have to buy gold from you....

The only thing I can think of is you enable people with real money to get better shit than people without it, which is just like real life i guess?

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 2 Points
  • 05:41:58, 20 February

The biggest problem bots generate is oversaturation of items, especially in my case. Bots the farm metal ore make the price lower, this is seen as positive for people who smith, but these items always make their way back out via a magic spell in the game that converts the items into ingame currency, the price of which is fixed, so if ore prices keep dropping (which they're remarkably stable actually) this alchemy floods more gold into the economy. In my case, I farm items that aren't ever alchemized, they're just added into the market, which gradually drops their price. An item released in a new patch can go from 20 million to 2 million in 2 days (if it turns out to not be that rare), and then from 2 million to 200,000 over the course of 2 months, by this point it levels off, for example. Bots however have virtually no effect for those first two days until a script is updated, bots manage to carry that price down for over the following months.

This is a bad thing if you use these methods yourself to make money, there is significant competition for select monsters in the game, the vast majority of which consists of bots. I understand why this would make players upset, but again, it's just a video game and I don't feel like I'm depriving anyone of a human right. It also causes inflation problems, Jagex has implemented a few skills and activities specifically meant to draw millions of gold out individuals to combat this, but even those have finite ability.

>The only thing I can think of is you enable people with real money to get better shit than people without it, which is just like real life i guess?

Let's say you want this shiny new sword, you could farm gold yourself, at let's say 1 million gold per hour (which is quite high for most players in this game), now let's say that sword costs 10 million gold, that's going to take at minimum 10 hours to obtain unless you get lucky with some OTHER rare drop, the odds of which are exceedingly low. If you have a job, responsibilities etc, that 10 hours easily turns into days if not weeks. You have the option however of purchasing that 10 million gold for around 4 dollars, which when compared to 10+ hours of work, is really nothing. So yes and no, all of this gear is obtainable given the appropriate time input, but there's a fair many players who would rather compromise with real money. This isn't a justification for what I do, it's merely an explanation for why this market even exists.

Jagex at one point had a system in place that eliminated trading with other players (of any substantial amount). They revoked this not long after, presumably because membership sales had plummeted with the collapse of botting.

  • [-]
  • dPuck
  • 1 Points
  • 06:58:11, 20 February

This was a super thorough answer, I honestly didn't know. Thanks!

  • [-]
  • colliemayne
  • 0 Points
  • 05:08:07, 20 February

You should do an ama. Which game are you farming?

  • [-]
  • dirtymoney
  • -2 Points
  • 17:50:09, 19 February

This is my favorite comment!

  • [-]
  • CommentsWasteCells
  • -5 Points
  • 23:25:10, 19 February

Thank you so much for using your selfish opinion to ruin the fun of others. You are scum of the highest order, as this kind of sociopathism is the only true evil. Your name is appropriate. Go find a hole away from humanity, as this event might seem minor, but it shows a dangerous psychology. Seek help or go away.

E: /r/Frugal supports theft and objectivism. Sad. I'm out.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 2 Points
  • 23:31:37, 19 February

Bro, it's just a video game.

  • [-]
  • CommentsWasteCells
  • 2 Points
  • 23:40:58, 19 February

Bro, it is a life-plan of taking. Leeching is not frugality, even if it goes unnoticed. The attitude that your preferences shield you from a moral interpretation is invalid, and I find it at least hopeful that you mention that the thought was there. Reassess. I won't judge you over a comment on the internet, but if you truly believe that your will to power is all that matters, you are sick.

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 1 Points
  • 23:57:31, 19 February

http://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comments/18tniw/whataresomeofthemoreunorthodoxwaysyou/c8i4eun

If you honestly believe I'm still a horrible sociopath, you need to reevaluate your sensitivities. When I start shaking down the local laundromats you might have a point, but I'm not hurting anyone.

  • [-]
  • knowsguy
  • -1 Points
  • 02:14:34, 20 February

You're insane. The dude is neither sick or evil. You might want to get out and see some of the world, where actual sickness and evil occurs. A fucking farming bot may not be the most righteous and noble scheme in the world, but it sure ain't evil or sick or sociopathic. Not even close.

  • [-]
  • washablememe
  • 1 Points
  • 01:26:02, 20 February

>video games are dumb

http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/175fxn/tilthatsurgeonswhoregularlyplayvideo_games/

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 2 Points
  • 01:34:38, 20 February

I'm guessing most surgeons who play video games don't log thousands of hours in MMO's. As one commentor suggested "Maybe surgeons that have better eye hand coordination also are more likely to play video games."

Too many variables. It was a generalization for times sake anyway.

  • [-]
  • washablememe
  • 1 Points
  • 05:24:54, 20 February

Surgeon hours aside, I read somewhere about the benefits of games, and after some thought I wouldn't be so quick to call them dumb.

Improved dexterity as the article suggests for the surgeons, but also playing certain games just keeps you on your toes in general... It absolutely helps increase your IQ. They can train your brain, exercise it, increase your response time. Of course, I'm not talking about playing games every once in a while and magically, you're quicker and smarter, etc... it's like exercise for your brain.

Education, I worked with 60+ kids a semester in an after school club and video games were great for team building, patience & sharing, getting out aggression peacefully among little boys, and even learning...

Physiotherapy, video games now aren't just to exercise your thumbs, there's the Wii and XBox Kinect that will get you off your feet... it's like living in the future. A few decades ago, we only dreamed of having computers and robots be our own personal fitness trainers. We're living in that age right now.

Stress relief, like I said with the kids, it really does help to get out aggression without hurting someone else or oneself or breaking something. And it works, some people dig yoga, and others dig big team slayer or regicide in a matchmaking campaign online and teabagging strangers. Violent games help more with pain, too. It affects your mind, not in the way people assume (which is making you more violent), but actually it exercises your mind to do the things it naturally did for your ancestors who actually needed to be violent to survive.

They definitely help you multitask easier, help you coordinate your eyes, hands, feet, even your ears when you sing and it's telling you that you are totally killing this once-awesome song. It helps you think better and increases your eye coordination.

It keeps marriages healthy and also helps keep friends in different cities and states together. My husband and I (Kern County, CA) play Halo4 together every night with his friends from Santa Barb, CA and Wyoming. I wish I could do this with my cousins who live far from me, skyping/vidchatting gets a little awkward... staring or trying to avoid staring at my friends face is weird (socially awkward penguins) but when you guys are playing a game, it's a lot easier to talk for some reason, at least for me. It's like, the gears in my head are warmed up and then we can have a REAL conversation about religion, politics, reddit, bullshit, etc.

I just think that saying "video games are dumb" is like saying "gyms are dumb." They're not dumb, they're a way of exercising your mind and body. Some games are obviously just junk, but I'm not talking about fashion diva or how to get a boyfriend (I saw my stepsister playing those and I totally facepalmed).

  • [-]
  • Mi5anthr0pe
  • 1 Points
  • 05:55:51, 20 February

You've got this weird energy, like I'm oppressing you and you NEED to change my mind. I don't disagree that playing certain video games might give you better attunement to your hands or whatever, but the fact that you can't even comfortably talk to family without the aid of video games to me just sounds like you're over stimulated. The cons outweigh the pros in virtually every case. Video games are no different from any other drug or stimulant and overuse leads to deterioration. If anything I keep people from wasting 30 hours for a pixel sword.

Play your Halo with your pals and enjoy, fine, but you're being one sided and disingenuous, you sound like an /r/trees poster.

  • [-]
  • washablememe
  • 1 Points
  • 06:34:50, 20 February

What? Over stimulated? I like typing, I'm pretty accurate, and I'm pretty quick about it, too... And I like submitting what I think I know to the hivemind and oblivion for peer review. You've got this weird energy, like I'm trying to change your mind, when in reality, even on the internet, what you think has no effect on me. I do however feel it's important for people to contribute what they feel might be helpful information, so long as they're not being hateful or completely full of shit.

Anyway

No, I can't talk to my family without the aid of video games or something to distract keep long periods of quiet from happening because 1) half of my family can't speak english and live in another country (me growing up American intimidates them to a degree, believe it or not, and they don't know what to say) Neither do I, when they ask about my job and I try to explain the best way I can, they can barely understand what I'm saying. Games have helped us break down the language barrier, we've used online pictionary type whiteboard games to draw out our explanations, esp. since internet is choppy in their country and video and sound don't come out that clear.

What cons are outweighing the pros? If your only argument is that moderation is key... it's not a very good argument for a con, as everything, even "bad" things, are beneficial in moderation. Even if the only pro you get from it is a learning experience. Anyone who says otherwise, just doesn't appreciate the learning process, aka living.

>you sound like an /r/trees poster

That's a bit loaded, isn't it? I mean, there are two sides to an outsider's view on r/trees: 1) They could think like the rest of the brainwashed and assume that nobody has their head on straight, ever OR 2) They could know the difference between (as an analogy) a binge drinker and a connoisseur. Now, I'm not exactly a connoisseur, but I definitely lean more towards that end of the spectrum rather than the binge drinking/frying high all day type stoner. Honestly, that last comment just made you seem very narrow minded to me. Either that or you're just having a bad day. hug