[HALLOWEEN] Warrior Princess (pre-party test run) (imgur.com)

MakeupAddiction

947 ups - 272 downs = 675 votes

234 comments submitted at 15:41:46 on Oct 20, 2013 by Checkmate1234

  • [-]
  • the-morrigan
  • 30 Points
  • 18:55:21, 20 October

What type of "warrior princess" are you trying to be? Wearing a Pocahontas-sequel dress and covering your face in war paint could definitely be seen as a little culturally appropriative/racist.

  • [-]
  • Checkmate1234
  • 41 Points
  • 19:51:58, 20 October

> Oh dear! Sorry for any confusion - I'm not going for American Indian at all. I just used "Pocahontas" as a descriptor for the outfit because it's a leather dress. I guess, think Xena warrior princess instead. Just trying to spark a quick mental picture. :) This look is just meant to be fun - not necessarily based on any culture.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • 4 Points
  • 01:49:28, 21 October

Sorry about this ordeal

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -29 Points
  • 20:19:57, 20 October

Xena doesn't wear war paint or have a "Pocahontasish" dress. Even if you're not emulating any particular culture, the costume is clearly based on snippits of native culture. I don't think that anyone who saw you with that makeup in a "Pocahontasish" dress is going to see you as Xena or any sort of warrior princess. They will see you as a Native American, and it is damaging and offensive. I urge you to choose a different costume, unless the dress is very clearly not one that looks like one that has become the stereotypical Native American leather dress.

Edit: Deleted a snippet of the letter that I later posted elsewhere in thread.

  • [-]
  • suzepie
  • 33 Points
  • 22:42:35, 20 October

You know, I agree with you. And yet, most costumes are derived from some kind of historical reference which implies a culture or ethnicity.

So do we hold the non-white references up higher and with more reverence based on the history of racism in white culture? I'll give you some examples. Are any of these also considered culturally offensive? Why or why not? I think this is worth talking about.

  • Pilgrim
  • Greek Goddess
  • Cleopatra
  • Leprechaun
  • Fortune Teller
  • Southern Belle
  • Princess Jasmine
  • Renaissance/Elizabethan Queen
  • Mulan
  • Irish Lass
  • Tavern Wench
  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • 1 Points
  • 23:21:25, 20 October

These aren't culturally offensive because they don't have an exceptionally brutal history + present in America of being systematically discriminated against the same way Native Americans do.

And some people might argue with you on Fortune Teller being kosher.

  • [-]
  • Happy-days
  • 20 Points
  • 03:05:38, 21 October

So it is only racist if said culture had been brutalized in the past. Gotcha...

  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • -6 Points
  • 06:38:53, 21 October

That actually has a huge part in it, I don't see why that's hard to understand...

  • [-]
  • suzepie
  • 15 Points
  • 02:01:33, 21 October

Fortune Teller, to me, is a way of doing "Gypsy." Which is, in fact, a historically misrepresented group of people.

  • [-]
  • hookersandblackjack
  • 1 Points
  • 16:09:21, 21 October

The Irish were brutalised and sold into slavery by the vikings and then again by the british. The Egyptians were brutalised by the muslims in the 5-6th century, and sold to the british in colonialism. The arabs, chinese and eastern europeans were brutalised by the mongol hordes in the dark ages. so extension none of those are acceptable costumes? At some point everyone has been brutalised, so now we have no halloween costumes left.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -8 Points
  • 23:24:53, 20 October

I am not the expert on cultural appropriation, and I will not pretend to be. I am the expert on LGBTQ social justice.

http://www.feminish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/culturalappropriationread.pdf That may be helpful for the sake of discussion. I will say that I would never dress as any of those things because I am a man. However, I think there's a difference between dressing as a person and dressing as a culture. Also, I think there's definitely a difference when it comes to a little girl dressing as their favorite Disney princess, but I could be wrong with that one. Someone tell me!

  • [-]
  • captaincream
  • 6 Points
  • 06:12:36, 21 October

I was whiteblonde as a child and never wore a wig and my favourite dress up costume was my Pocahontas costume and I always wore my Pocahontas bubble locket necklace. I miss being a kid sometimes because trying to do that as an adult might offend people and worrying about others now kinda takes the fun out. There is big difference between wearing the costume out of interest and a personal respect and wearing it out for humour and mockery.

  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • 7 Points
  • 23:27:06, 20 October

TIL Pilgrims and Leprechauns were all female.

Also, I was Pocahontas when I was about 6. I'm white with a NA ancestor. My mum made me the costume, I had a buckskin dress and a necklace of blue stones, a bear Beanie Baby, and a black wig. But no facepaint.

  • [-]
  • Happy-days
  • 13 Points
  • 03:30:07, 21 October

Dressing up as Merida the Scottish Disney princess isn't racist, but dressing up at Pocahontas is. Its such a double standard. No problem when you dress up as something that's historical background is white, no sir.

  • [-]
  • captaincream
  • 4 Points
  • 06:19:10, 21 October

That's something I don't get either. Like realistically here the Irish never had it easy either. They were the lowest class there was and were shit on by the British and then the Americans when they came over. Even in canada we had a hard time during the famine being taken advantage of during the crossings. It's dark history too but that does get overlooked because they are white skinned. I'm not going to pretended that obviously darker skinned races didn't have a hard time (and clearly harder) either but when it comes to characters of a particular race it shouldn't be bad to dress as them because you weren't born with that skin colour.

*spelling

  • [-]
  • matchesformikey
  • -1 Points
  • 05:45:30, 21 October

It's not a double standard ffs. When we parody cultural minorities, particularly when it's a white American dressing up as a Native American for instance, it is offensive. Really not hard to understand why that would piss off a Native American.

  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • -2 Points
  • 06:40:41, 21 October

Are Scottish/Irish people still being discriminated against on a mass and destructive scale? No.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -7 Points
  • 23:30:35, 20 October

You didn't know that?? Sorry, I scanned the list and missed those two.

  • [-]
  • lycantaxi
  • 23 Points
  • 21:31:22, 20 October

Damn, the downvotes are 100% proving your point. It's valid criticism, guys, not what downvotes should be used for.

  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • 18 Points
  • 23:22:24, 20 October

Reddit can't handle feminism/race discussions. Downvotes galore.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -4 Points
  • 21:36:51, 20 October

People be stupid. They really really want to think it's okay and aren't willing to click a link and learn about racism. Welcome back to the 17th century. Get your plague rats! Two for a nickel!

  • [-]
  • Happy-days
  • 17 Points
  • 03:08:18, 21 October

Racism is discriminating against a group of people, not dressing up with beautiful face paint.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -9 Points
  • 03:21:48, 21 October

I urge you to read my other comments to understand where this one came from. But you're right 100%.

  • [-]
  • Happy-days
  • 13 Points
  • 03:38:28, 21 October

I have. But you're wrong by calling this racism. It's more along the lines of cultural insensitivity. Far from racism.

  • [-]
  • ScienceIsMetal
  • -3 Points
  • 02:36:51, 21 October

I love you guys! Thanks for fighting the good fight and suffering downvotes to call out the obvious cultural appropriation in this costume.

Cultural appropriation is a big part of modern day racism. It's insipid and easy to brush off, especially when fashions that are guilty of appropriation are trendy, but I feel strongly that we can't just let people get away with it. Especially when it's done out of ignorance.

  • [-]
  • TheWomanInFlannel
  • -3 Points
  • 20:33:42, 20 October

Man. I bet you're really fun at parties. Lighten up dude..

  • [-]
  • TheKindestDemon
  • 20 Points
  • 21:55:37, 20 October

God forbid someone want to be culturally sensitive to a traditionally marginalized group.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -2 Points
  • 21:07:53, 20 October

Wow, you literally just said the thing and I'm unsure if you were being ironic or you're really that moronic

"I’ll ask you to please not dress up as a bastardized version of my culture for Halloween, and you’ll reply that it’s “just for fun” and I should “get over it.” You’ll tell me that you “weren’t doing it to be offensive” and that “everyone knows real Native Americans don’t dress like this.”"

  • [-]
  • TheWomanInFlannel
  • -11 Points
  • 21:10:35, 20 October

YOU ARE BEING OVERLY SENSITIVE.

  • [-]
  • TheKindestDemon
  • 24 Points
  • 21:56:05, 20 October

No, no she's not. Cultural appropriation is a thing and it sucks. Stop shoving your head up your ass.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • 8 Points
  • 22:05:45, 20 October

Thankyou Kindest, it's nice to have a partner to share the downboats with. I'm a dude though :)

  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • 8 Points
  • 23:19:17, 20 October

If you're a dude on reddit you should know the hivemind does not tolerate reasonable discussions about feminism or cultural appropriation.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • 3 Points
  • 23:28:53, 20 October

You'd think I'd learn!

  • [-]
  • TheKindestDemon
  • 2 Points
  • 01:52:16, 21 October

Oops! I apologize for misgendering you. I guess I'm just so used to sticking to female-dominated spaces online that I slip up sometimes.

I was just happy to see someone calling out the problematic stuff. Lots of people just stay quiet.

  • [-]
  • TheWomanInFlannel
  • 0 Points
  • 22:12:43, 20 October

Actually, yes they are.

OP clearly states warrior woman. Also, let me remind you as you may have forgotten, that Pocahontas WAS AN INDIAN and was also the center of a highly popular children's movie, made by Disney. There are tons of Halloween costumes out there of Pocahontas. They aren't making fun of her or Native Americans. How is it racist that kids want to be her for Halloween? You two are the ones with the sticks up your asses. If you think it's offensive, then don't be a warrior woman for Halloween. But ranting about it on some website isn't going to make it racist just because you think it is. Sorry hunny.

  • [-]
  • gorgossia
  • 13 Points
  • 23:18:19, 20 October

She specifically stated Pocahontas was a descriptor for her dress, not her make up/costume in general. Pocahontas doesn't wear facepaint in the film. It's not a Pocahontas costume, so you can't hide behind the 'Disney film!!!!' excuse.

And just because it's a Disney film doesn't mean it's not problematic.

  • [-]
  • lizzirdtoo
  • 9 Points
  • 00:10:26, 21 October

In fact, Disney is far from having a good track record on sensitive, nuanced portrayals of various races and ethnic groups. I'd argue the fact that Disney made a movie about Pocahontas is a point against dressing as her for Halloween.

  • [-]
  • TheWomanInFlannel
  • 0 Points
  • 23:22:48, 20 October

Um.....right? She used "warrior woman" to describe her make up. "Pocahontas" to describe her outfit. Because Disney, a HUGE company, has made very recognizable costumes of her for years. She used the Pocahontas reference just give people a visual if what her outfit resembled. In no way is she being racist. I don't understand what's so hard about this.

  • [-]
  • TheKindestDemon
  • 4 Points
  • 01:50:00, 21 October

Ranting? Oh honey, you're the one that's ranting.

First off, the Disney version of the Pocahontas story is pretty damn racist - I've read some excellent deconstructions by people who actually ARE American Indians, a common point being the 'mystical native shows white man error of his ways so he can save the day!' trope. Where, exactly, did I even mention kids? Don't project your misguided anger on me, dear.

It's racist to just throw a bunch of things together that look 'tribal' or 'native' and call it 'warrior princess', because you're reducing entire cultures (that have been horrifically oppressed and marginalized through most of history, and whose marginalization continues even today) to a basket of stereotypes. It's

TL;DR, Just because Disney did it doesn't mean it isn't racist, no one said anything about kids, learn to check your privilege.

edited for typo*

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -12 Points
  • 21:21:13, 20 October

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  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 10 Points
  • 22:17:02, 20 October

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  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -7 Points
  • 22:27:02, 20 October

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  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 2 Points
  • 02:22:37, 21 October

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  • [-]
  • breaking3po
  • 12 Points
  • 21:30:01, 20 October

Way to sell your point.

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -14 Points
  • 21:37:17, 20 October

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • breaking3po
  • 11 Points
  • 21:40:46, 20 October

Sure, pal.

  • [-]
  • pugglife
  • -1 Points
  • 03:13:44, 21 October

Thank you for saying this. The downvotes you are getting are ridiculous. I appreciate that you have taken the time to respectfully try to shed some light on the issue of cultural appropriation despite getting so much backlash!

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -3 Points
  • 03:21:01, 21 October

Well according to some, I am not being respectful and downright mean! I am certainly sarcastic, but I think mean is unfair. It's only unusable online currency afterall :)

  • [-]
  • alukima
  • 3 Points
  • 07:53:42, 21 October

I'm afraid to post in this thread but people are misusing the word racist.

>a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

I highly doubt that anyone can conclude that OP thinks anything about any race based on these photos. The way 'racist' is being thrown around in this thread is watering down the meaning of the word.

  • [-]
  • tylr-r
  • -21 Points
  • 19:14:52, 20 October

A little is an understatement :)