Is the Confederate flag a symbol of racism? CMV debates. One user objects, "They saw more in the flag than slavery and racism, why can't you? Probably because you are closed and symbol minded." (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
102 ups - 30 downs = 72 votes
257 comments submitted at 15:33:44 on Feb 26, 2014 by RC_Colada
No no no, the Confederate flag can be a symbol of two things. It means that the person displaying it is either A) astoundingly racist, or B) inexcusably ignorant of basic American history and too stupid to know it makes them look astoundingly racist.
Maybe they really like the Dukes of Hazzard.
Hey, they were meaning no harm....
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since the day they was born....
https://myspace.com/getsomecoolbeans/music/song/dukes-of-hazzard-23706595-23507780
https://myspace.com/getsomecoolbeans/music/song/dukes-of-hazzard-23706595-23507780
I detect a lot of jimmies being rustled.
I'm surprised this one isn't in SRDD yet, we're up to 200 comments on this topic and most of them are arguing.
Oh it should be. Someone is just not doing their job.
It was pretty much destined to do so.
I'm on it
Or C.) They don't care what you say it symbolizes, and display it to troll the fuck out of you.
It's a symbol of rebellion, much like motorcycle gangs using Nazi paraphernalia after WW2. It doesn't mean they're necessarily racist, only that they don't care what you think, and the more mad it makes you the better.
So what you're saying is they understand that it's a symbol of racism but don't care because they're assholes. That isn't much better TBH
That fits under A, actually. When you're deliberately being racist as shit just to upset minorities that still counts as being racist as shit. I'm not sure why you think that the racist thinking it's funny disqualifies it as racism.
Yet they really do see it as a symbol of their "culture" (and I am use scare quotes for full sarcastic effect, being someone who grew up surrounded by that "culture", I assert that it is real and that it is also ridiculous), and the attempt to take it away from them does nothing but make it about their stubborn pride, reinforcing it as symbol of their "culture".
"Stubbornly clinging to absolutely indefensible racism out of spite" doesn't really count as a mitigating factor.
Again it just brings us back to either the person knows enough history to know what it represents, making them racist, or doesn't know enough history to know how racist it is. Those remain the only two possible options.
But most biker gangs that did use Nazi paraphernalia where racist
Not necessarily.
And in the South, probably the most likely place you'll see the battle flag is on bikes and biker jackets (at least in the states with the sense to remove it from their state flags). You're also very likely to see Christian symbols, as Christian motorcycle clubs are popular. So you'll see aspects of all three mixed together, even in clubs that have black members. (I use this example because I have an uncle in one.) This issue is way more subtle (and in many ways less a big deal) than people outside the South make it.
um, no
I lived in SC for many years, the places you were most likely to see the goddam flag (aside from FLYING OVER THE STATEHOUSE, of course) were on the backs of pickup trucks, on people's front fucking porches, and on dorm room walls
don't even try with that "oh, only the more REBELLIOUS members of genteel southern society fly that rawther gauche relic of the past"
it's everywhere down there
Master Trololol
Did someone say my tralala?
Or C) Celebrating the culture of the American South (a combination of A and B)
The Confederate flag does not represent the entire culture of the American south. It represents one particular incident, namely a horrible war brought on by racist ideology.
The guy I responded to said it also represents astounding racism, stupidity and ignorance (aka Southern Culture), which are the factors that lead to that war.
I don't think that's fair to the non-racists in the south. (Yes, there are people who are not racist and stupid in the south, no matter how much you want your hilarious trope to be true.)
non racist here! its not great but ... no its bad.
So interestingly, after the civil war black people tended to move from the south to the north. Many people argue (I think quite reasonably) that this was because of a culture of racism in the south and that they moved to where they had more opprotunity.
Now however I've read that demographic data shows black people move to the south from the north. In my experience many cities in the north are quasi segregated whereas the southern cities are fairly integrated. Now to say the demographics reflect racism might be going too far. It could just be that culture (food and whatnot) of the south is more similar but it's something to consider.
That doesn't mean all southerners are stupid racists.
That's not what I was trying to say. I was providing some information that supports the point that southerners aren't stupid racists. I just thought it was interesting and pertinent to the topic.
From the south, confirming the dirty secret that it doesn't celebrate culture it celebrates racism. I was raised there and am a white male from the area I didn't hear excuses these folks are very open amongst themselves about how they feel. Don't kid yourself!
The bedrock of the culture of the American South, upon which the rest of the culture is irreparably and inseparably founded, is racism.
No, the culture of the American South is nothing to be proud of. The culture of the American South is toxic, vile, and uncivilized.
No, I'm no carpetbagger. I'm just a Texan who bothered to read his great-great-grandfathers' diaries (who lived in the Carolinas). They were awful men who really cannot be defended.
eh, orleans is cool, where im from is beachy, florida is crazy but in a different way.
you are the ignorant one here
Question: If you're not ignorant, why are you defending a flag that existed solely as an obscure naval flag during the Confederacy, and was only brought to prominence via the KKK's "The South will Rise Again" movement post-war?
Seems awfully ignorant to me to claim that the flag represents more than racism when the reason the flag is known today is because of racism.
If you want to celebrate 13 states seceding because they couldn't own human beings any more why not fly the actual confederate flag?
We all know this is the only flag they flew that really matters.
Fuck off you stupid uneducated northerner. Dont you know Lincoln was Literally HITLER!111!!11! THE WAR WAS ABOUT STATES RIGHTS>
WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION. THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN.
/s
>you are the ignorant one here
Brilliant rebuttal, Cletus. You sure made some strong points there.
> Cletus
DAE everyone in the south is a backwoods uneducated redneck?
If you act like a backwoods uneducated redneck (eg, by arguing that the Confederate flag does not have racist connotations), then people are going to treat you like a backwoods uneducated redneck.
so glad this is the comment you responded to. bravo.
Lost Causers are a beam of intellectual integrity.
If anyone had that impression you're not doing much to dispel it, are you?
so did you just miss the other responses?