The guy I'm dating had sex with me while I was very drunk. (TW) (self.SRSWomen)

SRSWomen

34 ups - 9 downs = 25 votes

Hey guys (oh my word I did that automatically!). This is my throwaway account.

So I have been dating someone for almost two months and having sex almost every time we see each other. I really like him, a lot. It was rocky at first--he recently got out of a long relationship and has a lot of self-esteem issues that come out when he's been drinking. He decided, therefore, to cut back on binge drinking (i.e., getting drunk), which I very much encouraged.

A few weeks ago, my house had a Christmas party. He came, but he wasn't going to drink. I was drinking. I drank a lot. That night, we had sex.

This bothers me. I was very intoxicated, to the point where I don't remember some of what went on that night. I barely remember the sex. If I had been sober, I would've wanted to have sex with him. If we'd both been drunk, I would've been cool with it. If, before drinking, I'd told him, 'Hey, I'm going to be drunk later on, but I want to have sex tonight, so we can still totally bone unless I change my mind, obvs!' But none of those things happened. We hadn't had any prior discussion. I was drunk. He was totally sober. He accepted my drunken 'consent'.

This, I know, cannot really qualify as consensual sex. For obvious reasons, I hesitate to call it 'rape': I believe that he is a good person, I really like him, and I don't think of him as a rapist. But I do really, really want to have a conversation with him about how this is not okay and you can't do shit like this and how it genuinely frightens me that he thinks it's acceptable. I would never have sex with a drunk person unless I were equally as drunk--I would feel gross and desperate--and I don't want to kiss and hold hands and have sex with someone who would do that.

But I am. Because I know he's not a bad person; he just... doesn't understand consent? It's awful to hear myself say that, because I know it's absurd and I'm making tons of excuses for him. You don't have to be 'educated' about consent to know that someone with a compromised/impaired state of mind cannot actually consent. But I like him and don't think he would've done it if ... I don't know. :(

I need advice. I certainly have to talk to him about it, but what do I say? How do I go about it? I don't want to accuse him of being a rapist, and I want to keep seeing him, but I want him to know that what he did was extremely shitty behavior.

Thanks for listening.

25 comments submitted at 00:31:20 on Jan 2, 2013 by nomjetable

  • [-]
  • champselysees
  • 23 Points
  • 00:58:28, 2 January

I'm sorry this happened. If you do want to talk to him, which it sounds like you do, I think you should explain it like how you did above. It's also good to know that a lot of people don't know that drunken consent isn't consent. There are shitheads who know and don't care, and there's your boyfriend and many people like him. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it okay, but there is a difference when it comes to how your relationship continues, I'd imagine. It sounds like he's reasonable and you can just explain how you feel about consent and what is okay and not okay for you.

  • [-]
  • nomjetable
  • 8 Points
  • 01:13:20, 2 January

In many ways, perhaps a serious, grown-up conversation about sex, sexual history, and boundaries should've happened long ago! Things have been going so swimmingly, though, that I didn't think to bring up this sort of thing. Thanks for your perspective, though--it's made me feel better about the fact that I'm not angry with him and still want to see him even though this has happened.

  • [-]
  • champselysees
  • 7 Points
  • 01:23:14, 2 January

Don't feel like it's your fault. He SHOULD know that what he did isn't okay. But it doesn't mean he's worthless or a bad guy. :)

  • [-]
  • tralalabrd
  • 13 Points
  • 01:01:25, 2 January

I had a similar experience. Nothing majorly traumatizing, but pretty much what could be described quite well as sexual misconduct. And I was majorly grossed out by him from then on. On bascially what can only be described as a tragically bad night, my best friend and I got drunk and had a little talk with him about what is and is not consent. I recommend not drinking to do this, it did not help. But the thing is, he was not as receptive as we would have hoped. He went full redditor and lashed back.

I got the hell out (after a fairly long ranting session at him, which was nice). I think you need to trust your gut on this one. Can you trust him not to assault you again? Tell him that what he did was sexual assault (because it was) and see how he reacts. Anything other than deep deep shame and apologies on his part isn't enough.

  • [-]
  • nomjetable
  • 7 Points
  • 01:08:43, 2 January

Thanks for your input. I think it's telling that I am not majorly grossed out by him after this; in fact, we've had sex since then. I am pretty sure that he will be receptive if I talk to him. I am a little worried, however, that he'll be contrite and ashamed not because he really fundamentally understands my viewpoint but because he has poor self-esteem and is inclined to think he's fucked up.

And I am worried that he's at heart not the 'sort' of guy that I should be with. Not full-on shitlord, but at the very least unaware of & disinterested in issues that I find genuinely important (enthusiastic consent, for example, or why it's not really cool to lightheartedly use words like 'rape' or 'gay'). While I know he's not a bad person and could 'learn', I'm very aware of the fact that it's not my job to fix him or enlighten him.

Sorry, I suppose that was a whole separate issue! It's just helping me to think it out like this. Again thanks for your advice.

  • [-]
  • tralalabrd
  • 7 Points
  • 01:19:59, 2 January

The whole low self esteem thing is kind of a worry. I don't really know how to navigate that one, it is a thing I've encountered before. Perhaps address that straight away, start off the conversation with that. I'd have the conversation and then see how responsive he is. If it's all "woe is me" or "I don't see why your upset", run far, run fast.

  • [-]
  • perrywinkul
  • 7 Points
  • 05:17:11, 2 January

I had a similar problem with my bf being fairly disinterested/bored when I started talking about feminism and SJ things a lot as I was getting more and more into it early on in our relationship. There was definitely some clashing of opinions and resistance on his part to changing certain beliefs about "comedic license" and the use of certain words and other casual shitlord-type things.

However, through many conversations over the course of our relationship and me showing him lots of the articles and other informational resources that I was learning from, he did get past his initial resistance and steadily became the feminist/SJ advocate he is today. Before, he would say the kinds of things that would make SRS Prime, and now he is the person calling out those things in his circle of friends.

It could get pretty frustrating early on in the process, but he listened to me and tried to understand where I was coming from, and that made the difference. But you are certainly right that it's not your responsibility to do what I did and essentially "educate" him. It'll be your call as to whether it's worth the effort. I just wanted to put out there that it is possible and for me at least it was worth it.

  • [-]
  • champselysees
  • 5 Points
  • 06:28:47, 2 January

A light version of this happened with my boyfriend. Sometimes I'll say something that's kind of problematic and he'll go "That's not very feminist!" and give me this grumpy look. He's 100% serious and it's really admirable.

  • [-]
  • RelationshipCreeper
  • 5 Points
  • 06:33:19, 2 January

Haha, this totally happened to me with a bf of mine. Getting him interested in social justice wasn't even on my radar, it just sort of happened holistically. I'd sometimes go on and on about the bullshit shitlord things people said that got featured on SRS, and eventually I started to realize that we were ranting at each other more and more.

  • [-]
  • wingspan12
  • 8 Points
  • 02:19:33, 2 January

Well I wasn't drunk but I had a similar thing happen to me when I was extremely tired and I kept saying "no no no no no no no" to my boyfriend and he kept pushing me, physically (wouldnt stop trying to take my clothes off/reach his hands everywhere) and emotionally making me feel guilty ("I just want to have sex cuz I haven't seen you in a while, pleasssee"). It was coerced consent basically, but like you, I hesitate to call it rape even though it felt like rape and I felt violated. We never had sex again and I ended it a few days later.

ANYWAY, you seem to really like this guy (I didn't like mine so I left) and I do think you should talk to him if you want to continue seeing him :) Communication is key. If he cares about you and wants to keep seeing you he will apologize and make an effort to understand this and how you feel about it. If he gets angry at you, or anything like that, you might want to re-consider. But I definitely think you should try if you think its worth it :)

I wish I had had the chance and the courage to sit down with my ex and talk to him about it and explain coerced consent and why/how it's wrong, but I was feeling too shitty/violated at the time. I dunno if someone said this already but I guess if you're afraid of unintentionally accusing him just talk about in a personal context. How did this affect you? What did it make you feel? Ask him why he felt that he had your consent and then from there explain why he's.. well, wrong? Sorry I know that sounds bad but you need to figure out what was going through his head in order to get to the bottom of this. Does he just not understand consent, or is it something more?

  • [-]
  • RelationshipCreeper
  • 8 Points
  • 04:48:28, 2 January

>I kept saying "no no no no no no no" to my boyfriend and he kept pushing me, physically (wouldnt stop trying to take my clothes off/reach his hands everywhere) and emotionally making me feel guilty [...] I hesitate to call it rape even though it felt like rape

That... is rape. When you say no, and they insist, and you say no, and they insist, and you say no, and they insist, and finally you say ugh fine whatever... that's rape.

The fact that you felt violated, never had sex again and you ended it a few days later is pretty telling, too. I'm totally there with you, because I've been in some nebulous situations that seemed ambiguous at the time, too... but what happened between him and you was definitely not okay.

The golden standard for this stuff is enthusiastic (and informed) consent. Consent under duress isn't enthusiastic. Intoxicated consent is similarly a no-go. Some people are down for drunken sex if they've discussed consent ahead of time, some aren't, but that's something people typically discuss individually with their partners, and lacking that, the default assumption with a drunk person should be that (enthusiastic, informed) consent has not been given.

  • [-]
  • wingspan12
  • 5 Points
  • 04:56:28, 2 January

Ever since I broke up with him I've struggled at LEAST once a week thinking about it, trying to "figure out" if it was rape or not.

I feel sooo confused about it. Sometimes I think it was definitely rape (and I completely freak out because omg I was raped) and then other times I think "well.. I could've screamed, or kept shoving him off me, or told him to gtfo or something.. I just kinda gave up and let him get it over with because I knew he would keep bothering me" and then I can't justify it as rape anymore? I just.. I dunno :( It's really tough. Sometimes I feel like contacting him and yelling at him, but I never do and it'd probably be useless anyway.

Please someone give me an answer, I really want the guesswork to be over. I know sometimes there is no straight up answer to these kinds of things.. but I could really use one.

  • [-]
  • RelationshipCreeper
  • 8 Points
  • 05:09:48, 2 January

>"well.. I could've screamed, or kept shoving him off me, or told him to gtfo or something.. I just kinda gave up and let him get it over with because I knew he would keep bothering me" and then I can't justify it as rape anymore?

This happens to a lot of people. The key here is that you did not consent. You "consented" under physical and emotional duress. A lot of people freeze up like that in those situations, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that (there was no obligation on you to HAVE to fight or scream in order to convey that you didn't want the sex... seriously, "no no no" is more than clear enough), and it changes absolutely nothing about whether or not you wanted the sex.

You'd already made yourself clear.

Popular misconceptions/insistence that people have to scream and fight like that are part of the reason that rapes are so underreported :(

I'm hoping you already know this, but since you said this:

>I wish I had had the chance and the courage to sit down with my ex and talk to him about it and explain coerced consent and why/how it's wrong

just please know that you're under no obligation to explain to him exactly why and how what he did was wrong. You said no, you said it repeatedly, and you are under no obligation to clear up anything with him (except if you want to try, for your own emotional well-being and health.) What he did was terrible and wrong. Make sure to take care of yourself first.

To be honest, the incident that happened with me... it took me 3+ months to figure out exactly what made me so uncomfortable with it. This is a process that a lot of people go through, I think.

  • [-]
  • RelationshipCreeper
  • 8 Points
  • 05:22:00, 2 January

Seriously, that is such a normal reaction, and I'm so sorry that this all happened to you.

I fucking hate when people corner me in bed when I'm tired and trying to sleep, for anything. It's such an unequal power situation to put someone in.

  • [-]
  • funghii
  • 2 Points
  • 09:06:51, 2 January

Hugs if you want them <3

  • [-]
  • MisandryMaggie
  • 3 Points
  • 09:00:31, 2 January

Yeah, communication is key here. Talk to him about it. Let your feelings go so he knows what's up. Then lay down some boundaries so it doesn't happen again. I have a "when I'm drunk..." talk early into my relationships. I enjoy drunk sexy times with my SO but there are rules.

  • [-]
  • funghii
  • 1 Points
  • 09:04:38, 2 January

You dont have to reason with it, if YOU find it to be problematic and want to call it rape, then it is. I think a serious talk About boundaries is à good start here!

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • 1 Points
  • 09:30:37, 2 January

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • [deleted]
  • -12 Points
  • 03:43:38, 2 January

[deleted]

  • [-]
  • pumpkin_ale
  • 13 Points
  • 04:14:43, 2 January

get lost