Redditor in /r/liberal claims a six figure salary isn't "as much as you think" and laments that "I've never been able to afford vacations longer than three weeks tops". Does not go well. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
194 ups - 40 downs = 154 votes
135 comments submitted at 06:21:07 on Sep 23, 2013 by sirboozebum
He should have just said:
>No matter how much you earn, it's never enough. If you earn twice as much, you have a mortgage twice as high, your school fees are twice as high, your rates are twice as high and your power bill is twice as high. And you're not even living in a nicer house, just a nicer area, or so they say.
Because that has some semblance of truth.
I was thinking he was aiming at that and that he was, despite 6 figure salary, just....poor with words. :)
On serious note that is a "problem" of upper [middle] class (whatever that means).
Higher mortgages, higher bills, one car per head of the family (latest models, not some shitty 10 year old model), kids are in private schools with other spoiled brats that expect latest and greatest; socially, you are in a presence of the rich and when they have their "BBQs" (actually, matinées) they talk about cool holiday they had in Europe and how whole family had great fun on the coast of Ibiza. You buy designer clothes, while your wife wants a boob job or a face lift and she can't wear same dress twice...and yeah suddenly that 6 figure salary is not that much. Finally... you pray and vote for the next guy who will take it easy on people with 500K+....otherwise you may end up appearing poor among rich folks...and that is, as Sartre said, hell
Hmmm I feel slightly on the border about arguments like this because my family somewhat fit into the higher salary population. I was able to go to a private boarding school but I was definitely in the lowest portion of income of the people there. I can afford to buy nice clothes, my family used to live in a nice house, all of that good stuff and I know we're extremely lucky.
But I also know that having a decent amount of money doesn't necessarily mean we don't have problems. My parents have been in and out of jobs in the past few years so we've needed to move halfway across the country so my dad could find a job again. We're caught between paying two rents at once which can get stressful. We have to take out loans to pay for four college educations. I work to make my own spending money now because I know it would put a strain on my parents to have to ask them for money.
Basically, having a comfortable amount of money doesn't mean all of your problems will magically disappear. The difference is I'm not an idiot and I understand that my problems and my family's problems don't even compare to the problems that other people may have in their lives. At least I have some money I can spend on trivial things and I know that my family will have a home I can go back to.
How dare you have money just because you worked your ass off!
Also has a semblance of truth, especially if you took the risk of investing in yourself with student loans for something you thought would bring a return in lifestyle as opposed to "doing what you love".
Yeah, I've made (almost) that much before (5 grand short) but I was working 80 hour weeks. I wasn't going to see the new bands three days a week, I couldn't smoke any pot, and I didn't have any kids. So my three week vacations? Fucking EARNED.
On top of that, there were obligations. Buying more expensive shit means it costs more money to maintain. Not to mention charitable guilt, especially if you're involved in a business that requires networking (which I personally wasn't, but thanks to my family . . . . ) which makes charity work and suchlike essentially an obligation. Oh, but fuck you for it, you somehow owe it because you have money.
I've since left it behind to go into health-care, but I'm never anything but amazed at the kind of soul-sapping, gnawing and all consuming hatred that the truly mediocre are capable of for people who've actually gone out and made something of themselves.
> So my three week vacations? Fucking EARNED.
Yeah, unlike the immigrant working 80-hour hard labor on a farm. He didn't earn that three-week vacation, because he's mediocre.
> I'm never anything but amazed at the kind of soul-sapping, gnawing and all consuming hatred that the truly mediocre are capable of for people who've actually gone out and made something of themselves.
Perhaps it amazes you because it isn't actually true. Nobody's demonizing good earnings; just the attitudes people like you have toward them. Somehow I manage to work hard, make good money, and not just dismiss those who don't as mediocre. You should try it sometime.
Right, I forgot, objective measurements be crazy. Of course, you refuse to profit from that immigrant, right? Right? Fucking 'Murica (Which I actually don't live in, so your analogy is a little bit useless to me)! I'm sure you're representing the immigrant fellow here.
It's the hypocrisy that I despise. Somehow, because someone else had it worse, I'm a bad guy for making money, and I owe it to them? Fuck, I even actually understand the immigrant situation, and that we should be dinging the companies for employing illegal immigrants, AS WELL as deporting. Maybe your country should get it's shit together, instead of blaming individuals for a pathetically broken system.
You'll notice I'm not saying your system is right, but that it isn't my fault, or my problem. You'll also notice I wasn't talking about a poor, ILLEGAL? immigrant since I would definitely consider them "Poor", not mediocre. For some reason, I don't know why, I just tend to assume a certain demographic on Reddit of middle class white college kids, something about that being it's actual demographic.
Anyways, I actually left my job making bank to go into healthcare, so trying to pull the elitist card with me doesn't work, oh condescending "Man of the people". "Oh, I have nothing against the poor, but I'm willing to profit from their suffering while pretending to be their very bestest friends!".
No, I work in finance and am by no means a man of the people. I just don't think I'm better than others because I make more money than they do. And I don't see anyone hating me for making more money, as long as I don't go around calling them lazy/mediocre for not being wealthy.
You're so angry! A while ago there was a nice article profiling people from five 5x multipliers in income. The low earners worked hard and didn't have any particular resentment against the rich. The only angry one of the bunch was the billionaire who was convinced everyone hated him for his wealth. It was amusing to see after we'd just finished reading about the others who didn't care in the least. Anecdotal of course, but I wish I could find the link to show you.
Anyway, I'm not holier than you or better than you. I'm just not sure where you get such colorful words to describe the hatred others supposedly have for your wealth. Sure, there may be extremists who demonize wealth, but the general American attitude in general seems to be to respect wealth for its own sake. I don't think that's good either but it's a far shot from what you're describing.
Answer
But yeah, I'm kind of getting overworked about it. I've gone through the whole social mobility spectrum, as a kid with my family and as an adult, and there was a definite difference in how people from the middle class treated you. People with money, and people without money, they seem to just always be the same since they have different pressures concerning them.
>It's the hypocrisy that I despise. Somehow, because someone else had it worse, I'm a bad guy for making money, and I owe it to them?
Dude, no one is saying that. The point of this discussion is that saying how 6 figure salary is not that much is ridiculous statement; while OP here on other hand argues that it is relative to the lifestyle. No one is saying you didn't deserve that money or that you didn't earn it through hard work. It's just you look like asshole if you complain about 'having it tough". You talk about stereotypical white college kids demographic but you yourself appear as the typical "first world problem" demographic.
>So my three week vacations? Fucking EARNED.
and you missed this point, it was not about immigrants that you started to rumble about, but that many people "Fucking EARNED" as well...albeit they earn less than you....but with same amount of hard work , dedication, savings, etc. It makes you look like ... just because you earn 10x more than some "poor immigrant", that somehow you also work harder, and are cost savvy, etc. No wonder that sense of privilege (hate using this word now because SRS) you have there is off the charts - "I FUCKING EARNED". what? others didn't?
Mkay, I see what you're saying there. Except the reason I'm going on about the immigrant, it's because the other person brought it up. I honestly felt it was kind of a ridiculous comparison, especially since it's a regional issue, and one I've always opposed politically. It should be illegal, and a heavy fine, for companies to employ illegal immigrants for subsistence (or below) wages, or legal citizens for below a minimum wage. Otherwise you just end up carrying the load with welfare programs.
Yet you continue on with the immigrant comparison, so let me point out you're acting like all work has an equal amount of value. Sorry, but a skilled trade isn't the same as picking fruit. Believe it or not, you can go from fruit picker to a good career if you have the aptitude, the system really is designed that way, people do it all the time. Now, that's a type of privilege I can't argue, straight up competency. But just saying that it's because I'm a middle class white guy? BTW, I definitely didn't get raised middle class, from teen years on. I've gone from broke with two working class parents (thanks partly to their need to foster kids), to living in a household with the higher end of six figures, made my own money, was broke as shit going back to school, and NOW I'm middle class. Although, to be fair, once I get my inheritance I'm probably not going to have to work again, so possibly upper class in waiting? IDK, the future is never guaranteed.
So, yeah, don't devalue my effort because you think someone who picks fruit is entitled to the same benefits I have, and try to realize that six figures really, really isn't that much once you get into that social circle, because it's no longer about you living the lifestyle but leveraging that money.
Honestly, if the people here spent some time in the places they've been, they'd realize that their middle class income is so close, relatively, to six figures compared to almost everyone else in the world, that bitching about it being an excessive amount like it opens every goddamn door in the world magically, is ridiculous.
Fuck, it's about 9am here, and I have sleep before work, but I'm constantly disappointed in the Middle Class. Unwilling to see the forest for the trees.
>So, yeah, don't devalue my effort because you think someone who picks fruit is entitled to the same benefits I have,
No one is devaluing your effort!...... and what benefits we talk about here? Person picking fruit on hot sunny day doesn't deserve 3 week holiday????? get the fuck out dude....are you fucking normal? "oh, he is picking fruits! fuck that , why would he deserve 3 weeks holiday! while me on other hand, working in air coned office and working my ass off to manage transports of them fruits I definetly deserve, because I worked my way to the top "
Not to go into e-measuring (or whatever this is) contests, but I also went from "poor immigrant" (literally) lifestyle doing all sorts of unskilled work to successful skilled upper middle class lifestyle. I used to drink cheap $2 bottle of wine now I am spoiled with expensive whiskey and cognac only. I can't remember last time I walked into target. One might argue I am an epitome when one is 'being spoiled with money'. But... at no point I am looking down on waiter, barmen, taxi driver, window cleaner, floor polisher, person picking fruit or whoever and thinking that they don't deserve benefits. Do you know why?? Because I know how fucking hard it is. (albeit it requires no skill, but I remember working 16 hours shifts, and you telling me I didn't work hard enough to get holiday)
edit: It seems to me that people are protecting certain benefits because they feel they "earned" them, not realizing that they also earned them while they were doing shitty jobs...and it boils down to.. "fuck you. You need to work your way to the top to earn 3 week holiday. No way I will be OK for you to have it when I didn't have it while I was busting my ass. I FUCKING EARNED IT"
> took the risk of investing in yourself with student loans for something you thought would bring a return in lifestyle as opposed to "doing what you love".
> Yeah, I've made (almost) that much before (5 grand short) but I was working 80 hour weeks.
This is just sad... You chose an education based on earning potential instead of "doing what you love", you are putting in 80 hour weeks and you still can't crack 6 figures? You are the definition of mediocre.
I actually never even finished it ;) Started making money half-way through Geomatic Engineering degree, worked doing surveying in the oilfield for two years, and realized I didn't want to put the time in. Not too bad for a 21 year old, though, hey? Get your own equipment, and you can bill to kingdom come and back. But then I decided I wanted to be a glorified taxi driver and went into health care. Ended up in sleep medicine. Life's weird like that, but hey, I get to work with the CSS and help design the framework for regulated nocturnal polysomnography in my country, so it's pretty good work.
But I understand people who have gone that route, and I don't begrudge them. I suppose it helps coming from a family making on the higher side of six figures, growing up with it you get to see the entire side. I suppose I won't really have to work when I get an inheritance, but until then it's a strict rule that you have to make your own way - no trust funds here.
What's your excuse?
>What's your excuse?
My excuse for what?
For your "Mediocrity". Lets see, I almost broke six figures with half a degree, and walked away to heal the sick, but hey at least I realize it was a choice I made. It's not like anything forced me into it.
Or you're saying you're upper class? Below the poverty line here? Or 13?
I make a comfortable living doing what I enjoy. I am comfortable with my mediocrity and make no excuses for it.
Well, I can't say anything about that then. I just don't like seeing people tear down someone who's made decisions to live a different kind of life, or insinuate that it was just somehow handed to them.
Your whole diatribe makes you look like you think anyone who isn't a bitter, overworked wreck is a locust sapping the life out of society
Read the second part I just posted. Hey, you make choices, and you gotta live with them, but don't devalue someone elses accomplishments just because you think it should be easy.
>I'm never anything but amazed at the kind of soul-sapping, gnawing and all consuming hatred that the truly mediocre are capable of
Some people are just against freedom...
Less freedom, more like personal accountability. If you haven't worked your way up there, you don't understand how good you have it, or how much work it takes to get there.
Everyone thinks they're middle class, which is ridiculous, but it just goes to show how costs scale as your income increases, and you normalize it by who your social circle is. I've gone from crack houses to five star hotels (my job required a lot of travel) and I never bothered to leverage my money because quite frankly, money never interested me much even when I was making it. Now I'm pretty solidly middle class @ $50,000 a year, and I wouldn't go back for anything.
But it's interesting to see how different levels of society interact, and the misconceptions people have about it. For instance, we have someone in OPs post making honest, cogent statements about the life and point of view of someone who worked their way into the upper class, and he's getting shit on for it.
It's like how upper class people can accept that there's always going to be someone with more money, and that somewhere along the way they or someone in their family worked for it, and maintained it. Poor people can accept it, because they also ALWAYS know someone that has it worse than them, and that they're lucky when you put it into perspective.
But the middle class, told they could be anything and feeling like they've been ripped off when they find out that they actually had to put work into it. That the degree from school doesn't guarantee a job if everyone else has a degree too. That investments are difficult, and that the system isn't designed to be fair, but to reward effort and innovation. They feel poor, while having more than most anyone else in the world, and entitled and disenfranchised to learn that no, they aren't as special as the guy who graduated at the top of his class, or worked 80+ hours, who goes to the gym because he knows that health is important, or the girl who moisturizes for an hour every morning because she wants look as good as she can (or vice versa, or best of all someone who does both.)
The guy in the link OP pasted, he isn't WalMart. But you can only have people feeding you bullshit lines devaluing your accomplishments and insinuating that your life was just handed to you, before you just start dismissing them out of hand.