We get it, you don't like circumcision (self.Negareddit)
Negareddit
26 ups - 6 downs = 20 votes
On both Reddit and 4chan it seems like there are people just waiting for someone to mention circumcision so that they can derail whatever the current conversation was to how much they hate it. I have no real opinion either way, I'm not going to tell people what they can and can't do, but I've been leaning towards accepting it just because of the fact that its opponents are the most insufferable people on the internet. Half of them seem way too adamant about an issue thats barely relevant and the other half just seem to want to brag about how much better their penises are because of their parents decisions. Which sucks, because since they hide everywhere, any meta thread about a circumcision argument will be blasted by the anti-cut brigade (and I expect this one will be too)
Arguments about circumcision have been done to death. Its not the next big human rights issue. I'm not advocating an opinion on the matter, I just am tired of seeing people come out of the woodwork to repeat the same arguments and post the same studies all the time
41 comments submitted at 13:16:53 on Sep 22, 2013 by Candlehead
You obviously have quite a strong opinion on the matter- which is that you seem to be upset at those with strong opinions, ironic as that may seem.
Instead of whining about how militant people are, maybe you can put forward a coherent argument as to how this is not a violation of human rights- I haven’t heard one so far.
You obviously don't understand the point of this subreddit.
Ever think I’m sick of people saying how they’re sick of hearing about circumcision?
> Ever think I’m sick of people saying how they’re sick of hearing about circumcision?
You're sick of this? OP's opinion is one I see expressed maybe once every couple of months, and even then only in niche subreddits dedicated to complaining. In any case, you're free to make your own Negareddit submission, or even set up your own pro circlejerking version of Negareddit. What's with all these people who think piracy isn't a human right?
As a side note, OP might enjoy this recent article in Slate:
How Circumcision Broke the Internet A fringe group is drowning out any discussion of facts.
Edit: Holy crap, dude, just checked and something like 40% of all the posts you make are ranting against circumcision. Just as a gentle suggestion, you may want to consider diversifying your interests ever so slightly. Comments like:
>>it is meant to dull the male sex organ to prevent masturbation and yes, sex before marriage.
Dude, you are living on planet fucking Mars.
> set up your own pro circlejerking version of Negareddit
NegaNegaReddit?!
>Dude, you are living on planet fucking Mars.
what did you think it was for? it has always been to dull sexual feeling.
Doesn't work for shit then, haha.
Definitely cleaner though.
not really, we have running water you see.
Pfft. Running water and good bathing are not the same thing.
we have good bathing too.
and i enjoy the comments section.
I like my dick circumsized. There's your coherent argument
And you have the right to circumcise yourself if you wish. I wish I had never been circumcised, and there is no remedy for this state.
Let everyone choose for themselves. Most men will choose not to. Your argument is not a coherent one against this.
I think his circumcision has already been taken care of haha.
As a parent I control more or less every aspect of my child's life. Yes, including whether or not he has foreskin. I do not want the government to legislate away my ability to make choices about my child's upbringing. Circumcision is not abuse, and it's most certainly not a human rights violation. My child is happy, healthy, and completely normal.
Rather than playing armchair advocate, how about spending some time in a part of the world where real human rights violations are occurring? Circumcision will seem like a pretty insignificant issue afterwards, I bet.
I’ll bet you consider female genital mutilation on that list of “real human rights violations”
Bodily autonomy is a human right.
Infant genital mutilation is a human rights violation.
Concerning so-called "female genital mutilation", Western society should spend less time attempting to eradicate the practices we think of as 'different' or 'strange' and more time helping to ensure that they're practiced in a safe, hygienic way. Cultural imperialism is just as wrong as traditional colonization. We don't need to infantilize people and save them from themselves.
Sorry, it sounds like you're saying female circumcision is okay as long it's done in a "hygienic way"? I really hope I'm misinterpreting your post.
Look, this is what many people say about male circumcision, to be fair.
Proper hygiene keeps people alive. As long as people aren't dying, who am I to say what's wrong? I might think that it's icky, but that's a pretty poor reason to eliminate thousands of years of tradition.
Wow.
I think that a dude doing another dude in the butt is icky too, but that doesn't mean I need to legislate away the practice.
And now you're equating homosexuality with female circumcision? This just gets better and better.
They're both things that I wouldn't personally practice, but that I don't need to abolished because of that.
Well, points for consistency.
I disagree with the idea of considering people as tribal collectives before individuals. I would argue that the whole teaching them how to do it in a “safe, hygienic way” is just as condescending, if not more so, and does not defend the rights of the individual.
Doesn’t “all circumcision should be consensual” smack of less colonialist privilege than “your tribal methods of circumcision are barbaric- practice our safe western method”
It would be condescending if safety and hygiene weren't empirically demonstrable qualities. It's not a case of "our god is better". Having said that, there's obviously no excuse for FGM, even if done in a hygienic manner.
Well, it isn’t safe and there are always risks of complications. I think you will find that the benefits to hygiene have been stated for both male and female- coming from a time when hygiene meant to not masturbate.
The new STD prevention claims, that it turns out this ancient practice which has been touted as a cure to everything from polio to strep throat, should be made by the individual in question, not for him.
Women get more urinary tract infections than men, and have more loose skin and smelly smegma. Female circumcision is at least as effective in women as it is in men- in that by removing part of the sexual organ you decrease possible problems with it.
That's the thing, man, honestly the older I get the more I think that we should just let people live however the fuck they want. Does western African culture seem pretty weird to me, living here in Florida? Well, yeah, it does. But I don't think that they need to drink Budweiser and drive Chevys. As long as people aren't dying (hence the need for proper sterilization and follow up concerning the "FGM") then who the fuck am I to say what's wrong? Nobody. And particularly since studies have shown that the long term health consequences of "FGM" are very low, any attempts to abolish it are entirely based in "I think it's icky".
> I think that we should just let people live however the fuck they want
So do I- do you think there aren’t African women miserable they were circumcised?
I think, morally, it's more wrong to force our will on the culture as a whole than it is for a smaller segment of the female population there to be sad about having it done.
Same reason that we let people raise children in fundamentalist religious compounds. It sucks for those kids, but it's more wrong to eliminate a way of life and social identity.
Look, this comes down to cultural relativism and post modernism and stuff. As long as you see MGM and FGM as morally equivalent I don’t have too much to argue with you about here- pretty much everyone (including here in Africa, nowadays) is against FGM.
Also- I spent a few years of my childhood in an American Evangelical Christian school (the curriculum was a psychotic American import- I believe it was called A C E), and I feel there is a point where religious instruction becomes indoctrination and abuse.
> studies have shown that the long term health consequences of "FGM" are very low
This is absolutely incorrect. Look up any reputable study about FGM and reproductive health and you will see that this claim is wrong.
I would really like to see one. Particularly one that documents the effects after it was properly administered.
"Properly administered" FGM? lol...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23843705 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23471548 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21121711 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20431792 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17445819
And I would wager that the vast majority of those "female circumcisions" was done in a non-medical setting by anyone other than a trained medical practitioner. There's a big difference between "circumcision" and "mutilation", and that needs to be pretty firmly established. But that doesn't mean we need to force our way into their society and abolish the practice.