Should cis people be allowed to ask innocently offensive questions in /r/asktransgender? (np.reddit.com)

SubredditDrama

50 ups - 20 downs = 30 votes

121 comments submitted at 01:40:43 on Feb 17, 2014 by [deleted]

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • -2 Points
  • 03:47:26, 17 February

>transgenders.

\>:|

  • [-]
  • poutinethrowaway
  • 11 Points
  • 03:53:14, 17 February

What? how did I fuck that one up? Is that not the plural?

Is it the transgendered?

  • [-]
  • OctavianRex
  • 8 Points
  • 03:55:21, 17 February

I think it's an adjective, similar to how you wouldn't say gays? So it should be transgender people? Idk.

I'm also not quite sure if /u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK was making a joke concerning the thread or just being genuinely useless.

  • [-]
  • AsianVikingPhysicist
  • 8 Points
  • 03:59:20, 17 February

Pretty much this, yeah. I don't really consider it a huge deal, but some people do. It just sounds funny coming off my tongue to say "transgenders".

  • [-]
  • Toni_W
  • 2 Points
  • 05:19:51, 17 February

My roommate still says "a transgender" which sounds/feels so sword to me for some reason. She doesn't see it as a big deal so I don't push for her to fix/change it

  • [-]
  • poutinethrowaway
  • 4 Points
  • 03:59:09, 17 February

Ok, when you put it like that, it makes sense.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 1 Points
  • 04:06:59, 17 February

Yo, trans folk have a way they preferred to be referred to, it's not useless to gently correct people about it. Plus, poutine's m'boy.

  • [-]
  • OctavianRex
  • 9 Points
  • 04:16:55, 17 February

Yeah, which is why I tried my best to let him know. What you did was pretty much a light version of the thing being complained about in the OP. It was either a joke or useless, cause you didn't tell him shit at first. Looks like it was joke, but you didn't gently correct him, you made an angry face.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 1 Points
  • 04:20:55, 17 February

well, it was both.

Tbh, trans drama is so common in SRD, I just assume anyone who comments here often shouldn't get minor stuff like that wrong anymore. Even this discussion we're having now is verrrrrry common. But I assumed no malice.

  • [-]
  • OctavianRex
  • 9 Points
  • 04:26:04, 17 February

Well that's stupid. Every time something gets talked about could be the first time they hear it, so they are going to get things wrong. That's literally the reason the original post was made.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 3 Points
  • 04:28:02, 17 February

Oh poutine has been around here for a long time. It's why he (she?) has a poppy flair!

  • [-]
  • OctavianRex
  • 4 Points
  • 04:33:22, 17 February

I understand what you're saying, but they obviously didn't know. So unless you thought they had malice it doesn't make sense to not just include the correction in the original post.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 4 Points
  • 04:37:38, 17 February

It's really not a big deal. I was giving them a hard time.

  • [-]
  • poutinethrowaway
  • 8 Points
  • 05:02:23, 17 February

> Plus, poutine's m'boy.

=D

But, yeah I should know the nomenclature here. Everyone just chill harping on takeit. I didn't take offense and would rather be corrected, than have my inbox bombarded with people getting angry over me using the wrong term.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 0 Points
  • 05:12:31, 17 February

Oh, no big deal. I've heard worse.

But yeah, thanks for being part of the SRD community. You're valued. :)

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 0 Points
  • 03:57:50, 17 February

"Transgendered people" generally tends to be preferred.

  • [-]
  • AsianVikingPhysicist
  • 11 Points
  • 04:02:08, 17 February

If you want to be really picky, even that's not quite right. It would just be "transgender people", no -ed, just liked you wouldn't say someone was a "gayed person". Again, I don't care, it's really just semantics.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 5 Points
  • 04:03:55, 17 February

To avoid all this, my personal goto phrase is "trans folk" or "the trans community"

  • [-]
  • AsianVikingPhysicist
  • 6 Points
  • 04:05:01, 17 February

Pretty much my go to phrases too. It's much easier than getting into linguistic and grammatical debates.

  • [-]
  • Legolas-the-elf
  • 5 Points
  • 07:05:42, 17 February

Even then you aren't safe. I was berated in here once for saying "transfolk" instead of "trans folk". Apparently you need the space or it's offensive. I've taken to calling it the "safe space". And I know it sounds like it, but this actually happened, it's not something I made up for the pun to work.

  • [-]
  • seanziewonzie
  • 8 Points
  • 05:06:29, 17 February

Trans folk sounds like a music genre

  • [-]
  • poutinethrowaway
  • 4 Points
  • 04:00:18, 17 February

Sorry, didn't know. I'll edit.

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • -1 Points
  • 04:02:44, 17 February

Oh, dude, don't worry about it. Nbd. I was half-kidding. It IS the preferred nomenclature but it's not like anyone is gonna kill you for it <3

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 3 Points
  • 04:15:50, 17 February

transgenders and transsexuals is fine as long as you don't say "a transgender" or "the transgenders"

  • [-]
  • ohgobwhatisthis
  • -5 Points
  • 05:36:12, 17 February

You, of all people, have no basis to say anything on that topic.

>transgenders

no, and

>transsexuals

hell no. That one in particular is 9 times out of 10 used by virulent bigots.

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 3 Points
  • 05:49:32, 17 February

>You, of all people

Yawn.

>That one in particular is 9 times out of 10 used by virulent bigots.

Fuckin' A! Just because it's used by bigots, doesn't make it grammatically incorrect.

LGBT

Lesbians, gays, bisexuals and trangerders.

Are you ESL?

  • [-]
  • Hehwhat
  • -7 Points
  • 06:16:20, 17 February

Ohhey, you're doing it again. You know, the cissplaining and ignoring what trans people are telling you about their own community. It's almost as if you're transphobic! nahhh

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 3 Points
  • 06:28:41, 17 February

Who knew proper grammar was a cis-privilege.

  • [-]
  • Hehwhat
  • -1 Points
  • 06:31:07, 17 February

>Proper grammar

>Why no, I've never heard of linguistic pragmatics, why do you ask?

Don't preach about things you know fuck all about.

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 1 Points
  • 06:40:22, 17 February

HAHA!

Please! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeas teach me all about the English language.

>Unlike semantics, which examines meaning that is conventional or "coded" in a given language, pragmatics studies how the transmission of meaning depends not only on structural and linguistic knowledge (e.g., grammar, lexicon, etc.) of the speaker and listener, but also on the context of the utterance, any pre-existing knowledge about those involved, the inferred intent of the speaker, and other factors.

Ooops! You lose.

  • [-]
  • DefinitelyNotwafle
  • -5 Points
  • 05:57:32, 17 February

Errr, no... I suppose it's somewhat arbitrary, but while "lesbian and bisexual" are relatively often used as nouns, it's usually considered pretty bad form to say "gays" and "transgenders" like they're nouns. "Gay people" and "transgender people" are the appropriate terms. I'm not sure where you got it in your head that LGBT "officially" means "lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders." If anything, they would be adjectives, as in "LGBT people."

Like I said, the terminology can be somewhat arbitrary and sometimes difficult to remember; that's kind of what the linked post was all about, not making too big a deal about stuff like that. But you seem very confident of your misinformed opinion.

  • [-]
  • Legolas-the-elf
  • 2 Points
  • 07:10:57, 17 February

> while "lesbian and bisexual" are relatively often used as nouns, it's usually considered pretty bad form to say "gays" and "transgenders" like they're nouns

Most of the gay people I know use "gay" as a noun. How do you recommend I tell them that they are referring to themselves incorrectly? Should I stick with "bad form" or should I just tell them they are being homophobic bigots? They might not take it very well, they seem very confident in their misinformed opinions.

  • [-]
  • DefinitelyNotwafle
  • -1 Points
  • 07:14:23, 17 February

Okay, I guess I stand corrected on the "gay" part. But my point still stands about transgender people.

I don't think I ever said anything about homophobic bigots, though, so you may not want to call them that.

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 0 Points
  • 06:10:05, 17 February

> somewhat arbitrary and sometimes difficult to remember;

LOL. This is not about feels. This is correct English grammar. I think trans folk have enough on their plate to get offended by then proper terminology.

  • [-]
  • DefinitelyNotwafle
  • 0 Points
  • 06:11:41, 17 February

Yeah, and calling black people "blacks" is correct English grammar, but I hope you don't go around doing that.

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 0 Points
  • 06:26:41, 17 February

Huh? Learn English!

We would say African Americans, not African Americaned people.

Indians, not Indianed people.

We are Americans, not Amereicaneds, or Ameri folk.

A transgender is correct. so is the the transgender and transgenders.

Blacks have a higher risk of Sickle Cell Anemia.

Blacks have more melanin in their skin than whites.

Asians .... not Asianed people.

Need more lessons?

It's not a matter of feels. English has rules.

  • [-]
  • DefinitelyNotwafle
  • 3 Points
  • 05:45:39, 17 February

I dunno about 9/10 times. It kind of seems that the younger crowd of trans people tend toward using "transgender" over "transsexual", but there are still lots of trans people who would call themselves "transsexuals." I rarely hear "transgenders" from trans people, but "transsexuals" is pretty common. I mean, Laura Jane Grace just did an AMA, and that seems to be the word she usually uses to refer to herself. I don't think it's fair to assign the usage of "transsexuals" to primarily "virulent bigots."

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 1 Points
  • 07:01:38, 17 February

http://www.diffen.com/difference/TransgendervsTranssexual

  • [-]
  • DefinitelyNotwafle
  • 0 Points
  • 07:08:28, 17 February

And, what, that's supposed to be some definitive source of what the words mean? The reality is that a huge number of trans people use them somewhat interchangeably. Some will say that "transgender" is just an umbrella term. Some will say that "transsexual" only applies to people who have had bottom surgery. It's honestly not so clear cut, and the "usually do not get surgery" part under the "transgender" side is flat out untrue; surgeries are taken on a very individual basis and even under the inaccurate lines this article attempts to draw between "transgender" and "transsexual", there is no reason to assume that those who fall under "transgender" "usually do not get surgery."

The only site this page even references is Wikipedia, which is by no means the end-all-be-all source on transgenderism. It's a fundamentally individualistic experience, and, at the end of the day, is what transgender people make it. A huge number of people whom this page would classify as "transsexual" simply identify as "transgender."

And really, those pictures up top are what the author decided on for examples of trans people? And lips with hot pink lipstick apparently have something to do with being transgender?

  • [-]
  • david-me
  • 1 Points
  • 07:16:01, 17 February

> which is by no means the end-all-be-all source on transgenderism

Please provide me with a link. No blogs, tumblrs or gawker-style click-bait sites please.

  • [-]
  • DefinitelyNotwafle
  • -2 Points
  • 07:18:21, 17 February

I honestly don't have one, because my understanding of transgenderism has come primarily from interacting with trans people in various forums, not from reading. I think that's a bit more of an authentic way to get to know trans people and how they understand being transgender, though that information isn't exactly easily shareable.

  • [-]
  • downvoteproof
  • -3 Points
  • 04:01:16, 17 February

Ahem. I prefer "trans peopled."

  • [-]
  • TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK
  • 4 Points
  • 04:03:09, 17 February

Are you trans?