Israel to erect pink-triangle monument to gays persecuted by Nazis. World War II experts estimate that 5,000 to 15,000 gay prisoners were sent to Nazi concentration camps. death rate of homosexuals in concentration camps may have been as high as 60%. (sdgln.com)

ainbow

290 ups - 28 downs = 262 votes

121 comments submitted at 00:55:28 on Aug 21, 2013 by FYoung

  • [-]
  • ShoehornWithTeeth
  • 58 Points
  • 03:59:11, 21 August

In response to the "pinkwashing" comments, according to Haaretz the memorial was suggested by Eran Lev, a "member of the municipal council from the Meretz party," a party who's platform includes an active and vocal push toward a peaceful two-state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and has called on the Israeli government to freeze settlement expansion.

Also, in response to people who's first reaction to a holocaust memorial, any holocaust memorial, is a tactless accusation of political jockying (or as one person put it, "bullshit") without any actual evidence to back up the accusation, I...honestly I can't even think of what to say.

As a Jew, I have to remember that a third of my people were systematically wiped off the face of the earth a decade and a half before "I Love Lucy" came on the air. As a bisexual, I'm also aware that regardless of my religious/ethnic background I still would have been subject to discrimination, and it's important to memorialize all victims of the holocaust.

And to the rest of the community, stop upvoting them. Whatever your opinion is on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the fact that someone calling a holocaust memorial "bullshit" is currently sitting as the top comment in this thread is freaking me out.

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -19 Points
  • 04:11:11, 21 August

Well fuck you. I know folk who have suffered life-changing injury because of what is going on in Palestine right now.

"They' are getting upvoted because 'we' are upvoting the truth. Stop othering people and get with the program.

  • [-]
  • ShoehornWithTeeth
  • 17 Points
  • 04:20:18, 21 August

Did you read any of my post? Did I discourage people from bringing up these issues or suggest they don't matter? No. I just said that accusing a holocaust memorial of being a political ploy as a knee-jerk reaction, without any backing evidence (and in fact evidence to the contrary), is rather disturbing.

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -12 Points
  • 04:25:11, 21 August

Yes, in fact I indeed read any of your post, and in said post you suggested that people not upvote opinions they agreed with.

You can 'just' say whatever you want but telling people to not upvote based on your personal (in)discretion is just asinine and naive as all fuck, sry hun.

  • [-]
  • ShoehornWithTeeth
  • 12 Points
  • 04:35:10, 21 August

Opinions they agreed with? I believe my exact words following that request were "Whatever your opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the fact that someone calling a holocaust memorial "bullshit" is currently sitting as the top comment of this thread is freaking me out." I was rather specific in what I was requesting people not upvote.

If there are people out there who agree with the opinion that a holocaust memorial is "bullshit," without any backing evidence, no, I can't stop them from upvoting I suppose. I will concede that.

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -10 Points
  • 04:37:17, 21 August

> And to the rest of the community, stop upvoting them. Whatever your opinion is on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the fact that someone calling a holocaust memorial "bullshit" is currently sitting as the top comment in this thread is freaking me out.

  • [-]
  • ShoehornWithTeeth
  • 9 Points
  • 04:41:30, 21 August

Yes, that is the segment I referred to (and then quoted the second half verbatim just now) from my initial thread. We are in agreement that I said that thing that you just quoted, as evidenced by my quoting it in my previous post. I don't even know what this conversation is right now.

I am going to bed. I wish you a good night.

  • [-]
  • exasperation
  • 11 Points
  • 04:20:32, 21 August

> according to Haaretz the memorial was suggested by Eran Lev, a "member of the municipal council from the Meretz party," a party who's platform includes an active and vocal push toward a peaceful two-state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and has called on the Israeli government to freeze settlement expansion

I don't see how that's "othering" people and I ... well, I'm not sure what your point is, actually.

  • [-]
  • ParanoydAndroid
  • 5 Points
  • 13:07:57, 21 August

It's skurh; they rarely have a point and when they do it's rarely coherent.

  • [-]
  • Zorkamork
  • 9 Points
  • 06:34:50, 21 August

You fucking understand the person spearheading this is for a two state solution right, or do we all look the same to you or something?

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -9 Points
  • 06:36:42, 21 August

Well this is a bit nicer than the "You haven't done shit for Palestine" you threw out earlier.

..Look. zm. Do you have a point to make to me or are you just yelling?

  • [-]
  • Zorkamork
  • 6 Points
  • 06:40:35, 21 August

Why do you assume every Jew is a Zionist?

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -5 Points
  • 06:42:20, 21 August

classic thingsNoOneEverSaid.txt

  • [-]
  • Zorkamork
  • 5 Points
  • 06:45:40, 21 August

Why do you assume this guy is a zionist or trying to pinkwash or whatever then?

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -7 Points
  • 06:56:15, 21 August

once again, claims I have firmly not made yet.

All I have done thus far is rebuke people for rebuking people calling this pinkwashing. I think that it is fair for you to infer that I believe this monument implicated in the dynamism of pink washing, which I do, but no further beyond that.

That fact that every potential ambiguity in my discourse is being exploited maliciously in my conversations ITT, is just to me all the more confirmation of the delusory logic inherent to such contest.

  • [-]
  • Zorkamork
  • 7 Points
  • 06:58:54, 21 August

So you do think it's pink washing even though it's being done by a pretty solid member of the pro-Palestinian faction in Israel?

  • [-]
  • skurh
  • -4 Points
  • 07:10:51, 21 August

I can think its pink washing until I'm blue, but its always going to be a monument.

Like I alluded to earlier, whats salient to me here is how this monument will be implicated in such dynamism. This thread is a good indication of that.

Where is the accompanying statement against apartheid? Any recognition of the current conditions faced by queer Palestinian youth? Any recognition of queer people in Palestine at all?

Crickets. All that has been supplied thus far is a party affiliation to the freezing of settlement expansion. To me that is just simply not going to cut it.