/r/Ancap discusses how to deal with child porn: "I have talked with some pedo's on reddit, and the way they explained it, it's just like being gay, but it's children instead of whatever sex you are." (np.reddit.com)
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136 ups - 64 downs = 72 votes
217 comments submitted at 21:30:42 on Feb 8, 2014 by pedoarchist
Hi, I'm the guy who made that comment. I didn't say that the children could consent. When I was making the comment I was talking about celibate pedophiles. Once a pedophile rapes or molests a kid, he becomes a rapist and molester, but not before.
I was simply talking about the attraction.
Well, he or she, regardless of whether they've actually molested a kid, are rape fetishists. Pedophilia is not an attraction, it's a fetish or a paraphilia.
And why, for the love of Christ, does everyone have to equate pedophilia to homosexuality every fucking time? Yes, gay people don't have enough stigma without being accused of being pedophiles, so let's just do it to score semantic points. If you're actually committed to that shitty analogy, compare them to heterosexuals. That way, you don't have to drudge up actual accusations leveled against gay people, that are used to deny them rights, and muddle your message.
I never called homosexuals pedophiles. I have nothing against gays.
If a pedophiles genuinely thinks he loves the child, your definition suddenly turns invalid. Louie Theouredox has done some documentaries on this, I suggest you watch some of them.
I honestly don't see the difference between being straight (happy now), but being attracted to kids.
As I'm writing this I've suddenly forgot why this even matters though. My point is that we should make it easier for these people to get help. It needs to be less of a stigma to be a pedophile. At least to the point where they can feel safe seeking help.
I submit in all other points, they're largely irrelevant. The focus should be on creating a better society, not getting pissy because someone used the wrong word. This applies to both of us.
>I honestly don't see the difference between being straight (happy now), but being attracted to kids.
A big difference is that pedophilia is a mental illness.
>It needs to be less of a stigma to be a pedophile. At least to the point where they can feel safe seeking help.
Nothing stops a pedophile who genuinely wants help from visiting a psychiatrist or entering into treatment. Plenty of other people with mental illness or other psychiatric issues--even highly-stigmatized ones, like addiction or schizophrenia--do this every day.
>A big difference is that pedophilia is a mental illness.
Because some people choose to define it as such.
>some people choose to define it as such
Yeah, "some people" meaning mental health professionals.
So when health professionals defined homosexuality as a mental illness, it was a mental illness, when they stopped considering it a mental illness, it wasn't?
So a homosexual has a mental disorder before, then he doesn't, even though his mental state has not changed, only the opinion of experts?
You're doing some massive appeal to authority on this one.
Jesus Christ, this asinine argument comes up every time. So, what is your solution? That we never trust mental health professionals about anything ever again, because they were wrong about some thing once? A large contingent of biologists once promoted race-based eugenics. Does that mean I should reject the theory of evolution?
Nice job breaking out the Wikipedia Guide to Winning Arguments, but seriously, maybe bring a little scrutiny to your own. Also:
>In the wake of many examples and discussions of this sort, contemporary accounts of fallacies widely recognize there are arguments which have the form of traditional fallacies, but cannot be rejected as fallacious. While the field of informal logic still recognizes key fallacies (e.g., equivocation and false dilemma) in pedagogical and theoretical discussion, the problems with fallacy theory have convinced many that theories of informal logic should focus, not on fallacies, but on general criteria for good reasoning (premise acceptability and relevance, etc.). The latter is often manifest in the study of structures for good inference (“argument schemes”) which set standards for particular kinds of good reasoning.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-informal/#Fal
The fallacy of authority =/= OMG U CAN NEVER TRUST EM
So why don't you bring up the REASONS why something should or should not be considered a mental disorder, rather than simply saying the 'experts' say so?
WHY should we consider something a mental disorder?
What about a mental state makes it a disorder? Why does pedophilia qualify and homosexuality not qualify?
If you lived in Russia, Saudi Arabia, or Uganda clearly homosexuality would be considered a 'disorder' by their experts, and homosexuals would be encouraged to get treatment for said 'disorder.' On what grounds would you object to such a classification?
>If you lived in Russia, Saudi Arabia, or Uganda clearly homosexuality would be considered a 'disorder' by their experts, and homosexuals would be encouraged to get treatment for said 'disorder.'
Morality and ethics are defined by the culture and society that an individual lives in as well as the individuals own convictions. According to my society and personal morals, homosexuality is not wrong or a mental illness.
>why don't you bring up the REASONS why something should or should not be considered a mental disorder, rather than simply saying the 'experts' say so
Because I don't really feel qualified to make such a determination, and neither should you.
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Obviously its western superiority, which is totally wrong and evil.
Pedophilia is not always classified as a mental illness anymore. Your definitions are out of date.
Psst...
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/13-67-DSM-Correction-103113.pdf
wow, weird to see someone I actually have tagged as "pedophile defender" flew in here to defend a pedophile.
I remember for trying to defend svarog's desire to rape children - http://np.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1qw0ut/googlevowstoblockchild_pornography/cdhuag4
It's atypical, that doesn't automatically make it an illness.
I consider it to be an illness because the mental health profession considers it to be an illness. The fact that it's utterly fucking repulsive is not entirely relevant.
Homosexuality was listed in the dsmv until someone decided it was no longer utterly fucking repulsive.
Transgenderis is still listed in a form. Definitions of psychological disorders are shaped by modern opinion.
Welp, guess we can never be sure about anything ever again, then. Fuck.
Or... you can stop making value judgements about people using strictly social sciences...
How would you prefer I make value judgments? Religion? Favorite brands of cereals?
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>I consider it to be an illness because the mental health profession considers it to be an illness.
Those poor sick gays in the 60s!
Yes, because it's literally the same thing.
Do you reject the theory of gravity because physicists once thought that the four basic elements were earth, water, air, and fire? I mean, they were wrong about that once, so can we really trust them ever again?
You want to compare descriptive laws to prescriptive definitions? Sorry, I just remembered why I hate places like this.
> Sorry, I just remembered why I hate places like this.
why? because people aren't welcoming pedos with open arms and calling out your shitty "logic?"
This is no longer true. The American Psychiatric Association has removed pedophilia as a mental disorder. It has been replaced by "pedophilic disorder", which has much stricter criteria. Pedophilia itself is now listed as a "sexual preference", and is not necessarily a disorder.
Yeah, no.
Also:
>In the case of pedophilic disorder, the diagnostic criteria essentially remained the same as in DSM-IV-TR. Only the disorder name was changed from “pedophilia” to “pedophilic disorder” to maintain consistency with the chapter’s other disorder listings
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/13-67-DSM-Correction-103113.pdf
Pedophiles sure do love their thesauruses. :\^)
Pedophilia is still fucking gross and immoral, you piece of shit.
They corrected that, but you obviously know that.
>I honestly don't see the difference between being straight (happy now), but being attracted to kids.
You can be actively heterosexual without raping people. You can't actively be a pedophile without raping people.
> My point is that we should make it easier for these people to get help.
I don't disagree.
> The focus should be on creating a better society, not getting pissy because someone used the wrong word.
A better society doesn't equate homosexuality to pedophilia. Being gay is not a psychiatric disorder.
Okay, the pedophile is celibate. Now what?
>Being gay is not a psychiatric disorder
Now currently, but it used to be classified as such. Still is in some countries. And is it? Depending on your definition of psychiatric disorder it definitively caused, and continue to cause for some enough psychiatric distress to be classified as such.
But does it even matter? The way I see it, pedophiles were dealt a shitty hand. They can't just decide not to be pedophiles, in the same way I can't decide not to be straight. They can't open up to friends, to family, and they're probably terrified of seeking help. So what do we do?
Trying to discuss the treatment of pedophiles is like trying to discuss communism during the cold war. "Oh, so you're a plinko, eh?" And suddenly I'm the bad guy.
>Okay, the pedophile is celibate. Now what?
He or she still wants to rape kids.
>Depending on your definition of psychiatric disorder it definitively caused, and continue to cause for some enough psychiatric distress to be classified as such.
Nope. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about.
>So what do we do?
Classify their paraphilia as a disorder so they can be treated by licensed professionals instead of seeking validation on the internet from people who will tell them they're just like homosexuals.
> And suddenly I'm the bad guy.
No, you're just really wrong.
> He or she still wants to rape kids.
No, the reason the pedophile is celibate is that he doesn't want to rape kids. You could make the case that it's 100% based in fear of the law, but that's conjecture at best.
So, you have someone who is attracted to kids, but understands that molestation and rape outweighs sex. He or she is still attracted to kids, but choose to not have sex with them because they do not want to hurt the children.
>Nope. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about.
Sure I do. I've gone to a therapist, I've read tons of psychology literature. Anxiety and depression runs in the family, so I felt it prudent that I learn as much as I can about the mind so I don't end up killing myself.
>Classify their paraphilia as a disorder so they can be treated by licensed professionals instead of seeking validation on the internet from people who will tell them they're just like homosexuals.
If that worked, then sure. It is a largely semantical debate when you consider the real-world effects of whatever we call it. The problem I have with this though, is that we'll consider them sick and damaged. This isn't going to help the irrational hatred and fear people pour on this people, it's just going to confirm their beliefs.
Let's just agree to disagree on the semantics. I'm not going to change my mind if you don't whip out some new convincing, and I suspect the same is true for you.
>The problem I have with this though, is that we'll consider them sick and damaged. This isn't going to help the irrational hatred and fear people pour on this people, it's just going to confirm their beliefs.
It's really not irrational to dislike pedophiles, considering that they have a slight tendency to rape kids. If I met a guy who confided in me that he really had a strong desire to murder people, but had "never acted on it," my opinion of him would probably plummet and I'd hope that he'd get psychiatric help.
And we consider them sick because they are. If they wanted to get better, they would go into treatment. There is medication that is effective at reducing sexual desire. If your only sexual desire is to molest kids, then you should probably consider a pill that will make you want to do that a lot less to be a fucking godsend, not a tremendous insult from a mean society that doesn't understand you.
>No, the reason the pedophile is celibate is that he doesn't want to rape kids.
A pedophile literally has a compulsion to rape children. So what if he's not raping kids right now? He still wants to. Still has the urge.
>Anxiety and depression runs in the family, so I felt it prudent that I learn as much as I can about the mind so I don't end up killing myself.
Lol, so you're the expert on criminal paraphilias now?
>If that worked, then sure.
So psychotherapy is bullshit, am I getting that correctly? What did you get that line from -- pedophiles on the internet who refuse to seek actual professional help?
>The problem I have with this though, is that we'll consider them sick and damaged.
Well, they are sick. Ain't normal to want to fuck kids. Thus, the whole seeking professional help thing.
>This isn't going to help the irrational hatred and fear people pour on this people, it's just going to confirm their beliefs.
There's a big difference between "kill all pedophiles" and "hey, you're just like homosexuals, I love you."
And I don't know how else to convince you that pedophiles literally want to rape kids. That's kind of the definition of pedophilia: an impulse to want to rape kids.
> A pedophile literally has a compulsion to rape children.
A sexual attraction is a feeling that causes people to desire sexual contact with people. It's not a desire for sexual contact.
> Ain't normal to want to fuck kids.
Being gay isn't normal, but since when it normality relevant to questions of morality?
^ already had this guy tagged as a pedo apologist and here he is doing it again.
hmmm i wonder why
>A pedophile literally has a compulsion to rape children
I'm just going to step in here - A pedophile with a rape fetish has a compulsion to rape children. A pedophile has a compulsion to fuck them consensually. Of course, this isn't actually possible.
Let's say I have a fetish for eating people whole, and then spitting them back out again, whole and alive. This doesn't mean that I constantly want to eat people, because actually eating people is generally a lot less pleasant and safe and consentual than my fantasy. If you're straight, it doesn't mean you have a compulsion to rape those of the opposite gender, you're inclined to fuck them consensually. The issue pedos face is that they can't do that in this reality.
I'm sorry, but you are not correct. Your information is out of date. Pedophilia is no longer classified as a mental disorder on its own. It does require additional symptoms to be classified as "pedophilic disorder". Pedophilia on it's own is now listed as a "sexual preference" by the DSM.
the above information is incorrect