What it means to think like a libertarian (imgur.com)

Libertarian

174 ups - 36 downs = 138 votes

64 comments submitted at 20:20:48 on Jul 15, 2013 by Whootie_Who

  • [-]
  • TheCrool
  • 1 Points
  • 21:45:42, 15 July

Don't like child porn? Don't watch child porn.

oops, did I cross the line?

  • [-]
  • Alex_the_Unknown
  • 1 Points
  • 21:49:12, 15 July

Funnily enough, I don't think you did. I'm a support of child porn, provided everything is voluntary. I know that it's unpopular, but the reasons for banning child porn are the same for prohibiting alcohol, i.e. it might be associated with something evil.

  • [-]
  • kubrick66
  • 1 Points
  • 21:56:13, 15 July

Are you trying to say that children can consent? At what age? Any age?

  • [-]
  • TheCrool
  • 1 Points
  • 21:58:55, 15 July

Haha here it goes.

Children can't properly consent to much of anything until they gain understanding and experience. But why ban them from choosing to have sex and not ban them from choosing to join a football team? Do they actually understand the physical consequences, potential dangers, and required dedication football teams require? If fact, if we banned children from doing everything they didn't understand, how would they learn and develop?

  • [-]
  • kubrick66
  • 1 Points
  • 22:12:40, 15 July

The problem is a trusted adult can talk a child into committing the acts "voluntarily" precisely because they don't have the life experience to know better. Sexual abuse can cause lifelong issues for someone subjected to it.

  • [-]
  • the_ancient1
  • 1 Points
  • 22:37:22, 15 July

>The problem is a trusted adult can talk a child into committing the acts "voluntarily" precisely because they don't have the life experience to know better.

Yea like risking life long injury and bodily harm by playing football or cheerleading or soccer or.....

  • [-]
  • kubrick66
  • 1 Points
  • 01:01:19, 16 July

So suffering a knee injury from playing sports is the same as the psychological issues suffered from being molested by an adult?

Do we have a bunch of pedophiles on here or something?

  • [-]
  • the_ancient1
  • 1 Points
  • 01:40:02, 16 July
  1. Never said anything of the sort - further sexual molestation is something very different than "child porn" which can be anything from a 17 year old having consensual sex to actual rape. You have taken one extreme and shut out all other possibilities. Further Child Porn is one possible by product of molestation, but the molestation is the aggressive act, and in many/most cases should be punished, but child porn is another topic.
  2. A large amount of psychological damage is done by the fall out not the actual event, i.e the court case, and society at large
  3. More than "knee injury" is at risk, there are a huge number of children that have suffered life long brain damage and paralyzation from sport and sport-like events (cheer leading/dance being the most dangerous)
  • [-]
  • GhostSonata
  • 1 Points
  • 00:32:54, 16 July

Right because an 8 year old boy steps on a college football grid iron all the time. It's a level playing field after all.

  • [-]
  • the_ancient1
  • 1 Points
  • 01:36:53, 16 July

umm child porn is legally classified as any pornography depicting a sexual act by a person under the age of 18... so a 17 year old, who has the legal ability to consent to sex if doing so on film would be considered child porn

  • [-]
  • FourthReichsFuhrer
  • 1 Points
  • 23:08:00, 15 July

... or joining the armed forces, 'cause we're a military family!

  • [-]
  • TheCrool
  • 1 Points
  • 00:32:44, 16 July

Or going to church... OR YOU'LL BURN!

  • [-]
  • GhostSonata
  • 1 Points
  • 00:34:46, 16 July

Let's be clear, are you talking about underage children together or a child consenting to an adult? The latter is disgusting and the same as pedophilia. Children are not sexually mature enough to properly consent, either mentally or biologically. At what age they become mature enough is up for debate, but at that point they start to cease becoming children. That is the whole point of delineating childhood from adulthood to begin with, the rest is just arbitrary.

  • [-]
  • the_ancient1
  • 1 Points
  • 01:45:46, 16 July

There are multiple issues here.

child porn is legally classified as any pornography depicting a sexual act by a person under the age of 18... so a 17 year old, who has the legal ability to consent to sex if doing so on film would be considered child porn.

I do not believe anyone is condoning the rape or manipulation of small children, that is sexual molestation and not child porn. The idea behind the criminalization of child porn is if you "cut off the demand then people will stop making it"

This is the same false equivalence that leads to the prohibition of drugs, prostitution etc. and it consume resources that could go to actually protecting victims of molestation

  • [-]
  • wellactuallyhmm
  • 1 Points
  • 01:19:37, 16 July

I really hope this is some devil's advocate here.

If a child "consented" to me shooting fruit off their head with a shotgun, should that be ok as well?

  • [-]
  • TheCrool
  • 1 Points
  • 01:31:27, 16 July

Who are you to define what level of risk people can make at a certain age in their life? Whether it's the risk of them performing a gymnastics routine, playing football, or allowing you to shoot fruit off their head, how are you or anyone else authorized to make choices for others?

As for me, I think parents should have the say. They naturally care about their child much more than you or I (with rare exceptions) and therefore have the incentive to make the best choice. If their parents are comfortable with their child playing football or having sex, I'm not going to force their hand. I will however try to persuade them to not let their child do either of those things for the child's safety.

  • [-]
  • wellactuallyhmm
  • 1 Points
  • 01:48:28, 16 July

Only one of those situations involves an adult knowingly doing harm to a child. The adult is in a position of trust and authority, and using that to put a child at risk of emotional or physical harm for your own gain is despicable.

That's child molestation, or the fruit shooting scenario.

Also, have you met some parents? Many don't give a shit, some would (and many have) profited off selling their children to sexual deviants, and others are just not around.

I'm surprised you are actually even suggesting this seriously, honestly.

  • [-]
  • TheCrool
  • 1 Points
  • 02:03:41, 16 July

> Only one of those situations involves an adult knowingly doing harm to a child.

So sex is harmful? I'm assuming you mean psychological trauma or something. Are you saying that for thousands of years, all females have been psychologically traumatized since they typically got married and had sex around the age of puberty? Many had sex before then. There's a good book on this called The Trauma Myth that outlines how the actual psychological and emotional harm comes from society demonizing sexuality and sex with children rather than the sex itself.

> Also, have you met some parents? Many don't give a shit

True. And you think a law or two would help them start to care? If I want to sell my daughter off as a prostitute, the law has mainly succeeded in making it so much more profitable for me by suppressing supply.

  • [-]
  • thelightbringer
  • 1 Points
  • 01:14:35, 16 July

You're a pervert if you actually believe the bullshit you just posted.

  • [-]
  • gates88
  • 1 Points
  • 01:02:44, 16 July

That's a totally unrelated question. He said if you don't like cp, don't watch cp. That doesn't apply to production. Production and child abuse should stay illegal, distribution and possession should be legal. That way only those who really abuse children would be punished.

  • [-]
  • thelightbringer
  • 1 Points
  • 01:13:23, 16 July

Sorry, but that's a stupid argument. The reason people make child porn is because people watch it. Watching it should be illegal, too.

  • [-]
  • gates88
  • 1 Points
  • 01:30:30, 16 July

No. Most child porn is produced by those who would otherwise abuse the children anyway. One could even argue that child porn decreases the rate of child abuse, because pedophiles who consume cp are less likely to abuse real children.

  • [-]
  • Alex_the_Unknown
  • 1 Points
  • 22:23:36, 15 July

I do think children can give consent; age isn't a factor.

I was watching a documentary about dancing middle schoolers once, and there was an 8 year old who was more worldly than many adults "capable of consent". She was talking about taking a special route home from school so she wouldn't get abducted and raped. Would you stop her from having sex on the grounds that it was non-consensual sex, i.e. rape, because, despite knowing the difference between rape and sex, she's 8?

You ask what age a child can give consent at, but what you're really trying to determine is what level of intelligence can they give consent at. Age can sometimes be a good indicator of this, but if you really think the issue is one of age then you're using a religious or emotional argument (which is why it is illegal). Allow me to answer the question "At what level of intelligence (can children give consent)? Any level of intelligence?"

Yes, any level of intelligence. Lower levels of intelligence to not disbar consent; consider retarded folks, who might have an IQ of 50 and not be able to eat on their own. Would you disbar them from having sex because they're too stupid? If they cannot speak (and understand the words that they are saying) then there's no way to obtain consent, but that doesn't mean that their consent would be invalid.

Essentially, you're not in charge of anyone but yourself. Children are individuals as much as you or I, and yes they can give consent.

  • [-]
  • TheCrool
  • 1 Points
  • 21:55:55, 15 July

Yeah, you're in a small minority. The stigma of sex runs deep, especially adolescent sex.