Capping last with Loose Cannon? (self.truetf2)

truetf2

21 ups - 2 downs = 19 votes

In some of the other threads about this gun people have suggested that whether or not it's actually a good weapon, it could be used to defend last more effectively on CP and PL maps. However, while playing with it I've found that it can also be a devastating tool for capping last. Buuuutttt... I'm not a demo. I don't really know if my theories are correct and I'd like people to tell me. Here are my speculations, all of which have worked for me in non comp play:

1.) LC + Pain Train can cap last even when you normally shouldn't be able to. I've found that by jumping/charging past the enemy you can use the pain train to essentially back cap last, even when the enemy is defending it. Last normally caps very fast, and if you can get on it and keep enemies off it for even a few seconds you can cap it, which the LC seems to be marvelous at, especially because it can even keep away ubers.

2.) The LC seems to be excellent at supporting a push to last in PL. The ability to deal huge knockback/damage at range can keep the defenders away from the cart so a scout could conceivably hide behind it and cap without them bodyblocking him.

3.) The LC also looks like it could support a push in CP as well. On maps without a wall behind last such as Process or Croissant you could clear defenders off last, or in more normal maps such as Warmfront or Granary you could at least keep defenders from getting back on the point to stop the cap.

So anyways, essentially I have some crazy ideas of how this new weapon might be put to good use. I have no real clue if these are any good or not so I wanna hear some feedback from real demos. I don't actually expect any of them to be that viable, but I just feel that this weapon has such potential, especially it's knockback, and I'm trying to find any way I can to make it useful, since although it's still early Stock still seems a bit more useful in most situations.

tl;dr: Loose Cannon could be like a stickyjumping pyro with a pain train airblasting defenders away while capping last. Yes or no?

26 comments submitted at 15:31:15 on Jan 23, 2013 by MisterChippy

  • [-]
  • Kmartrules
  • 1 Points
  • 14:44:50, 24 January

Instead of fucking around pushing them, just kill them with pipes or stickies.

  • [-]
  • MisterChippy
  • 1 Points
  • 15:00:31, 24 January

Because pipes can kill an uber!

The whole point of this is that in this situation the LC might be more viable than just pipes. Also, Loose Cannon does not mean giving up stickies, and I'm not saying use the LC to the exclusion of stickies either.

So now that we've decided that our performance with stickies isn't going to be effected in the slightest, lets look at what we're giving up. Namely pipes. Pipes cannot kill any class in one hit. Therefor pipes cannot remove enemies from the point/cart in one hit. The LC actually can kill most classes in one hit, but we're going to assume that the double tap is too hard to do/takes too much time. It can, however, knock an enemy back in one hit. This knockback is strong enough that it can keep an enemy from moving for a few seconds with one hit. When you have someone on last, that's all you sometimes need. And since you still have stickies, and can still do ok damage with the LC, that knockback might give you more than the lower dps you get from the LC takes away.

  • [-]
  • Kmartrules
  • 1 Points
  • 15:02:33, 24 January

Why are you trying to get on the point and knock them off? The demoman is the last person to walk on point, even after the med.

Your team just baits point and you lay sticks down. If the loose cannon was a scout weapon maybe it would be viable for knocking people back.

  • [-]
  • MisterChippy
  • 1 Points
  • 15:17:31, 24 January

I'm not saying the demo has to get on point with this weapon. In my first theory I say that this weapon might make that a viable tactic, but my other theories are both geared towards the demo hanging back like he normally does and keeping the defenders from ever reaching the point.

Although admittedly I don't feel I made that clear enough in the OP...

(Plus, ever heard of the FaN?)

  • [-]
  • Kmartrules
  • 1 Points
  • 15:27:09, 24 January

I don't understand. Both pipes and stickies prevent people from reaching a point. I really don't see how the loose cannon could possibly defend a point better than stickies can. No one is stupid enough to walk over the stickies, and if they do you just kill them. Literally no aim required.

Even if you could hit the loose cannon every time, it still wouldn't be as effective as mindlessly throwing stickies on the point.

Rollers have the same effect, or you can just direct them dealing massive damage.

And yes I've heard of the FaN, its awful. What is your point?

  • [-]
  • MisterChippy
  • 1 Points
  • 15:46:54, 24 January

Ok, are you even reading what I'm saying? The Loose Cannon DOES NOT EFFECT YOUR STICKIES AT ALL! What I am saying here is that when capping last you can switch your GL to the LC and you will gain a slight advantage in the form of knockback on hit and the ability to juggle ubers (which neither stickies/pipes can do effectively) in exchange for pipe damage. You still can deal full damage with your stickies, but if an uber comes you can deal with them and save your trap, and you can also bounce other enemies away with your cannon, and the only thing you lose is a little bit of damage.

I'm not saying that this is better than the GL, I'm asking for a discussion so that this idea can be looked at from all angles. I want a critique with logical reasons why this could/couldn't work. None of your answers so far have had anything to do with the LC itself, just with what a traditional demo does. The idea here is to try thinking outside of the box to try improving how the game is played.

  • [-]
  • Kmartrules
  • 1 Points
  • 16:03:47, 24 January

Are you even reading what I'm saying? Stickies are better than the LC at capping a point. Why would you shoot the LC when you could shoot the stickies.

Literally the only reason the LC could be better is its ability to knock back an uber yes, but the loss of damage from the pipes is already enough to make it almost pointless.

There are also better ways to push against an uber. Run suicides or a pick class, don't switch to an inferior weapon and try some gimmick.

Like it actually boggles my mind that you'd rather try to juggle someone with the LC than put a sticky on the point.

  • [-]
  • MisterChippy
  • 1 Points
  • 16:13:08, 24 January

I'm. Not. Saying. That.

I'm saying that if you equip the LC over pipes you gain a very valuable ability in exchange for some damage you probably aren't going to use very much precisely because you have stickies.

And just to make this very clear... I do not say do not put stickies on the point. In fact, I agree that someone preferring to use the LC over stickying up the point is mind boggling.

In fact, BECAUSE you are supposed to be stickying the point is why this might be able to work, since you should normally be doing that instead of shooting off pipes. Therefor in this situation the damage loss has a lesser impact than at other times. HOWEVER, if the enemy DOES uber, or if you lay all your stickies, I am saying that the LC provides you with options that you did not have previously. I am not saying that while capping last you should exclusively use the LC. I am saying that having it equipped could come in handy.

And to sum things up, THE LOOSE CANNON DOES NOT REPLACE YOUR STICKYBOMB LAUNCHER, NOR DOES HAVING IT EQUIPPED MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD NOT USE YOUR STICKIES.