Is a Danish person with Pakistani heritage really Danish? Are Pakistani people inherently unintelligent? Is race-mixing permissible? Slapfight in r/European (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
60 ups - 0 downs = 60 votes
145 comments submitted at 14:59:02 on Dec 1, 2014 by MimesAreShite
Damn, a chance to shine though. First of all, I've been a subscriber to /r/SubredditDrama for quite a while now, didn't really think I'd ever be exactly in between the popcorn.
Seriously though, don't just bash the subreddit. It is not a Nazi, fascist, racist subreddit-I would never agree to moderate it if it had those agendas. It is, however a subreddit dedicated to free speech. Free speech for all.
Now, free speech for all means one thing and one thing only-the subreddit does not censor anyone. From communists to Nazis. Everyone is welcome and can be sure they will not be banned, will not be censored because of their opinion. That is all.
It is true, that as a free speech sub it attracts many people from the far right, because they are being denied their free speech in other subs. We cannot deny that. But not everyone is a right winder-myself in this number. In fact, although the mods don't share the same views, we are united in trying to get a bigger base of left wingers. As I said, and as is the main idea of the sub: everyone is welcome.
So don't bash us. Give us the benefit of doubt. If you are interested in European topics and European news you are more than welcome and you can rest assured that you will not be discriminated against because of your opinion.
That is all, thank you to all those who took the time to read, and who are willing not to just bash the sub for no reason.
>Everyone is welcome
. . .unless they're not fully white. What "great" sub you have there. I imagine you're real proud of it.
You should know having anything to do with that sub is an embarrassment. Why are ultra right wingers in any country, completely without self awareness?
Actually I don't want an answer. I was far better off not knowing such a horrid sub existed. It's one thing to know that racist as what's exists in all countries, it's another to actually be exposed to it.
Ehh, one of our mods is half Pakistani, not white for sure, and I'm Italian, meaning some people would argue my whiteness too.
>Now, free speech for all means one thing and one thing only
After that sentence, my eyes sort of glazed over and I just imagined a lot of skinheads shouting a nazi anthem while others are trying to have a conversation. Because, well, that's what it means when you're too much of a fucking pussy to ban nazis. You chase away moderates and any chance of an actual, productive discussion about anything, and instead you get a bunch of skinsheads patting each others' shoulders about how open-minded they are, and really, doesn't a tolerant society tolerate the intolerant?
(Hint, no it does not.)
No true, actually. If you would take the time to read our rules you'd know this isn't the case. The Nazis don't get to yell around at all. We remove comments like "fuck Arabs" or "Hang communists". It is our primal objective to stimulate discussion and lively, interesting debates which is also why personal attacks aren't allowed.
Those who cling on anti-social behaviors and support ideas such as Nazism are allowed to express themselves but they must provide decent argumentation. "Heil Hitler 1488" is not allowed and neither are editorialized posts or threats of violence.
Everyone has to keep being civil and respect other people's opinions, so no, it is not a bunch of Nazis patting each other on the back.
All in all, out rules are not much different from the free speech laws of the USA. If there is one thing I truly admire about the US it's the freedom of speech people are granted-you can be a Nazi and a communist because you are a free person. So we try to adhere to similar principals.
>We remove comments like "fuck Arabs" or "Hang communists"
Yet one of your top posts is "I fucking hate Arabs". You are only fooling your self if you think your sub is a free speech utopia.
Which one?
Yeah, but it's not like cloaking your violent, fascist and racist rhetoric in slightly more civilized terms really makes it better. Saying that race-mixing is bad is not 'civil' even if you say it through the most delicate, flowery prose imaginable to man. And there's literally a guy in the posted thread doing that. So no thank you to your invitation, I'd rather take a swim in literal septic tank.
Hmmmm, as you may see in the thread that was one dude saying that and me arguing with him against it. Not everyone has to be like him.
Great!
Now ban this guy for using racial slurs please
Damn, dude is racist as hell.. Also, wtf is this shit:
https://i.imgur.com/Qbx4A4V.jpg
No you don't understand. When he says that they don't allow "fuck arabs", or "hang communists" they mean that you can't say that to other users. If you're not directly attacking other posters you are allowed to say pretty much everything you want. For instance, this is what that same user said about another poster on Reddit.
>I bet she misses the rape. Of course no self-respecting white guy would even want to rape a black momma. Even the immigrant niggers only rape white girls if they have the choice. That's the one thing I kinda understand about ape logic. It's proven in numerous studies that sheboons are the group considered least attractive by the other sex by far.
This is what he said to Evilwhiteoppressor who is a mod there. Later the same user asked for doxx, and the mods then discussed how the doxx could be linked without them getting in trouble.
> It is not a Nazi, fascist, racist subreddit
Stop behaving like one and we'll believe you.
Well some users are such. That doesn't mean this kind of behavior is endorsed by the sub, it's just allowed because of free speech and all.
Also, personally I am not a Nazi, fascist, racist or even rightist.
And there's the problem with "free speech and all" in a private community. You let your sub become a Nazi hub and now you don't like that people regard it as such. If you've ever wondered why other people exert editorial control over communities like this, all you need do is look at the userbase and the reputation of your sub. You let Nazis walk all over you, and now your name is associated with Nazism. Not free speech. Nazis.
>some users
Here's something said by one of your moderators, /u/Evilwhiteoppressor in a thread titled "Gay HIV campaigners dump horse shit and kiss outside UKIP HQ in London":
>I love how these degenerates think this is something to be proud of.
Really shows what a nice, friendly, welcoming atmosphere the people in charge of the sub want to put out.
While the mods may be not like that the userbase clearly is mostly pol types. Just look at the top posts in the subreddit. So the subreddit just doesn't look like an attractive option for people who do not share those viewpoints.
Possibly-something that we, as a mod team, are trying to change and we are trying to become more attractive for a broader audience. Everyone can post their own content-we let the users decide what goes up.
>Everyone can post their own content-we let the users decide what goes up.
Yeah but if the userbase is mostly one viewpoint that has a stifling effect on debate because anything that goes against popular opinion on the subreddit in question will get downvoted.
Same goes for other subreddits, except we're leaning right and others are leaning left.
You're not just leaning right, you're mostly far right. But yeah it applies to other subreddits too.
Can I ask why your political "Related subs" are only right wing? If you want some people from the left wouldn't it then make sense to have the same kind of list that /r/Europe has? Which includes both /r/Eurosceptics and /r/EuropeanFederalists.
Because we had listed several other subs that are leftist but some wanted their names removed because, similarly to people in this thread, they judged the sub prematurely(in my opinion). Other would refuse putting us in their sidebar, and naturally we wouldn't put them in ours. Which subs do you propose we list? If there are some we'd love to message their mods and try to make a deal.
I would for one propose /r/EuropeanFederalists, but I honestly don't know many european politcs subreddits besides those I mentioned, yours and /r/europe.
But if none of the left leaning subreddits want you to link to them, then maybe you should consider removing the right wing subreddits, since people who only see those probably would judge the sub to be right wing. Having links to /r/IslamUnveiled, /r/ukipparty and /r/Eurosceptics doesn't make the sub seem welcoming towards left leaning people, people who practice Islam and the pro-EU groups.
Thank you for your advice. I'll personally see what we can do in regards to /r/EuropeanFederalists. However if we are to add them, /r/Eurosceptics needs to stay and also, I see no good reason to remove /r/ukipparty seeing as it is about an European party and we don't want to be left wing-we want to be balanced between let and right. But /r/IslamUnveiled could be re-discussed by the mod team.
I agree about your point regarding /r/Eurosceptics, but when /r/ukipparty is the only European party on the list, then your argument is a bit odd. Also wouldn't they fit nicely in the /r/Eurosceptics category and thus not be needed if /r/Eurosceptics stays?
Well, it's a different. Plus, /r/ukipparty links us so it is common courtesy to link them back.
As for the rest, I have brought it to the attention of the mod team.
> So don't bash us
I disagree; free speech means we can bash you guys, especially if it's warranted.
Yeah, but I haven't forced you to not bash us; I'm asking you.
On a similar vein, I don't think any of us actually forced /r/Europe to police its users; we are content to just laugh and mock racist (or funny) content whenever we see it.
Therefore, as a (self-appointed) representative of SRD, I regret to inform you that your request has been denied, since to arbitrarily censor ourselves would be against the very principle of free speech that you espouse.
Nobody is forcing you to censor anything. I just wrote something, you do not have to respect it. Obviously , you do not. Others may.
Im not forcing you to suck my cock, but I AM strongly asking you
> It is not a Nazi, fascist, racist subreddit
Wasn't /r/european started because /r/Europe wouldn't put up with your constant Jew hate?
Hmm, I don't think so. I don't hate Jews. I could probably write a book as to why I don't think /r/europe is a great option but I won't do that. I don't want to bash other subreddits, rather I want to show the positive sides of our.
http://i.imgur.com/r31265R.jpg
You're subs second most upvoted post is a racist joke with nothing to do with discussion of European issues, every single highly upovted post is an attack piece on immigrants. You sub has no positive side, it exists for racists to circlejerk about how awful blacks are. The only positive thing about your sub is that some of the racists in /r/europe permanently migrated there, so thanks for that.
Perhaps if more left wing people like you joined /r/European, we could have a more balanced discussion.
I like how not being a horrible racist = left wing
I have better things to do than dedicate large amounts of my time to arguing about racism on the internet.
Unlike you apparently. I suppose you're just upset I insulted your dogshit quality post, I guess you must have been quite proud of having the 2nd top post in the sub.
Also I'm not really left wing, I'm just not a racist prick, so nice bit of black and white thinking and assumptions based on prejudice, what a fucking surprise.
The problem with that is why would anyone want to? Nobpdy else thinks having loony race-realists spouting crap everywhere constitutes a balanced anything. You can dress it up as trying to create a space for free and honest discussion but all refusing to ban racists does is make it the go-to place for racists and a place to shun for anyone who doesn't want to hang out with racists, i.e. everyone else. The only way you could make r/European tolerable to others is by getting rid of most of its members or somehow making in the only page accessible on the internet. No matter the topic, as long as there's another place that I can go to to discuss things that isn't full of shit heels like the ones you try to make as comfy as possible, I'm going to go there. Why on earth wouldn't I?
i gave you the benefit of the doubt and looked through the subs top posts. so when you said it's not racist i was shocked to find this and a few other articles that are basically there to prove the subscribers racist opinions (mind you there is hardly anything that has to do with europe besides immigration) but the children post is beyond horrible they can't help what country they were born in but most of the people in the comments don't give a shit, all they care about is making fun of some children because their skin color doesn't match their own. so when you claim that your sub isn't racist i have to give you a side eye.
Ehh, I agree with you. But those posts are freedom of speech, which is what the sub was made for in the first place. Also, I didn't say the subscribers aren't racist. Some are. But the sub is neutral. Every opinion is welcome.
you can't say the sub is neutral when most of the posts are about anti immigration and racist stuff in general. so i would say from perusing the sub most of the subscribers are racist
While I don't doubt your commitment to free speech, that's not gonna stop me (and others) designating the subreddit as far-right. Because it is. You can argue that it's not an explicitly far-right community, but you can't ignore that it was created in response to someone being banned for expressing far-right opinions, that the top two mods are far-right, and that the vast majority of the community is far-right. It is, for all intents and purposes, a far-right subreddit, even if it isn't officially designated such - the beliefs and tone of the community are representative of a subreddit, not moderation policy.