SC2 Pro tweets out his is going to "rape" his female opponent and is disqualified. Is that appropriate? /r/news discusses. (self.SubredditDrama)
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263 ups - 0 downs = 263 votes
Plenty more if you want to go mining. I can only handle so much. Enjoy.
306 comments submitted at 07:51:27 on Nov 23, 2014 by God_Wills_It_
Even in here people seem to be unable to realize that people in a spotlight are under more scrutiny than the average schlub and your own experiences on the ladder is incomparable to what these guys have to go through. Like, nobody cares uf your racist uncle calls Iraqis sand niggers but the outrage would be real if your congressman did.
SC2 drama is considered news now? Wow.
A dying game and their choice to try to curb the amount of shitty speech makes it to /r/news. That's some pathetic news.
It's news on reddit. Most of the world doesn't care
In the same way that \/r/funny isn’t actually funny, \/r/news doesn’t actually contain news.
It’s really more about indignation, and the age and truth of the story don’t matter.
I'm sure there's an even closer example than /r/funny.
So now rape can't be used outside of the violent sexual context? I've used "rape" as a description while watching football games, video games, pro wrestling matches, poker games, and a shit ton of other contexts. Environmentalists have no qualms about using the word rape to color what strip mining does to the ecosystem. I've seen it used to describe what presidents have done to civil liberty in America, and what the NSA has done to privacy. Sorry feminists, but you do not own exclusive rights to a word. You don't get to decide the parameters of said word.
This is the exact horseshit that goes with what I said here yesterday. SJWs look for, and find their pet ism in everything they look at. It's the ultimate in arrogance to think the rest of the free world is going to curtail their thoughts and words to suit your agenda. So stop raping people's freedom of expression.
Pro gamers lack ~~im~~maturity? No way!
Have you seen destiny? I'm not surprised he's defending that kinda shit.
These guys don't take professional seriously. My left nutsack has better behaviour.
> ~~Pro Gamers~~
Twenty somthing year olds.
Who are pro gamers.
Not all pro gamers are in there twenties. Just saying.
Do we throw every gamer under the boat just because a 13 year old fucked your mom on XBL?
If you don't think the people involved with pro gaming don't have maturity issues then you're not being honest.
>Do we throw every gamer under the boat just because a 13 year old fucked your mom on XBL?
What does this have to do with anything? Are we suddently talking about 13 year olds m8?
Oh they do for sure, just saying not every SINGLE one.
I'm saying not every person that plays video games/watches esports is immature its 2014 after all nothing more.
>Oh they do for sure, just saying not every SINGLE one.
I said literally every game is like that? When?
>I'm saying not every person that plays video games/watches esports is immature its 2014 after all nothing more.
When did I talk about people who play games? I was reffering to pro-gamers and casters.
It was an analogy, nevermind guy.
So I can compare an NBA player to some dude at a pickup game? It's a bad analogy. He's not just any old gamer, he's being paid to do so and he needs to act accordingly. It's a job not a hobby for him.
What the fuck is wrong with you? He said 'not all pro gamers are like that.' You said 'if you don't think the people involved with pro gaming don't have maturity issues...' Not some people. Not even most people. Just people. Meaning everyone.
So, they have maturity?
Fuck. I'm bad at using touch keyboards, even more so when I'm tired. I meant that they're immature.
I figured. Was just having a laugh.
Context is everything here,he is using the term rape colloquially as in to beat her in the game. As horrible as rape is, why punish someone for using the word in a way gamers use it every day. I do think its dumb to say,but still his intent is clear here and over reacting isn't stopping actual bad things from happening to people in real life. The irony here is he is being inclusionary by saying that to her,because male players say that shit to each other all day. If he said that to a dude it'd be business as usual I bet.
Say it to a guy it's fine, say it to a girl all hell breaks loose. Equality amiright.
Are you serious?
Yeah.
Well...good luck with that.
Thanks.
I agree. I'd also like to point out that there's a clear language barrier, Kas is from what, Eastern Europe I believe? So the full context of that word and its history might not be something he's aware of due to ignorance, which you can't fault him for if there's geographical boundaries.
... Are you trying to suggest that Eastern Europeans don't understand the concept of rape? This isn't a language barrier. "Rape" is not a loaded term only in English.
I'm saying his tweet was a product of the gaming community and he didn't have a complete grasp on what the word really implies. If he constantly sees the word being tossed around as a casual way to imply that you're going to defeat your opponent in an overwhelming manner, then that's the one and only definition he's going to have in his head.
If this was from a player in the Western scene then I could understand the outrage, but I think people are failing to understand there's more than one dimension to this entire situation.
I think you came to the wrong hood homie.
> As horrible as rape is, why punish someone for using the word in a way gamers use it every day.
You seemed to have answered it yourself genius: Rape is pretty horrible.
>he is using the term rape colloquially as in to beat her in the game
Which is why he said "going to rape some girl" of course.
yeah if it was a guy he would probably say "going to rape some dude" I would imagine.
>the irony here is he is being inclusionary by saying that to her
Hahahahahahaha
There is no colloquial redefining of the word "rape." Language evolves and all that, but some words are so charged that you can't and shouldn't try to change them. Rape is one of those words.
Rape is horrible, and joking about it is not OK. Gamers using it every day does not mean this guy using it is OK. It's still wrong in both cases. Male players shouldn't say that to each other. No one should say that to each other.
As for this kind of language policing not helping real matters, you'd be surprised. On a societal level, we do a lot of stuff implicitly justifying rape. Even something as basic as the words we use can affect how we think about it.
There's a whole Gender Studies rabbit hole behind this stuff, and I'm only briefly touching on it. Let me know if you have any questions.
I have to admit, if this was male to male trash talk, nothing probably would've happened.
However, using rape as part of trash talk is just something that needs to stop, regardless of any way it's meant. Especially in the light of recent gaming drama.
> I have to admit, if this was male to male trash talk, nothing probably would've happened.
I don't know about the SC2 scene, but me and my male team mates in my current game tell other guys to stop saying "rape" all the time, regardless of who they aim it at.
I'm curious about what your game is. I'm also involved with a different game, and the scene is pretty hostile toward threats and slurs.
Sorry, I try not to give out too much personal info due to the current debate climate. I can say that it's not so much due to a specific game (it's a fairly big multiplayer game) but the group of people you associate with. One tip would be to find gaming groups based on organizations you know have a good attitude towards threats and slurs.
Good. There's plenty of other ways to trash talk with out alluding to sexual violence.
holy shit, a starcraft player acts like a tool and it's not Destiny
go fucking figure
Have all the members of /r/Starcraft come here yet to ~~brigade~~ explain how rape is hilarious and how the entire rest of the world is wrong for not being able to see the funny side of this?
Edit: oh, yes, here they come...
>Have all the members of /r/Starcraft[1] come here yet to brigade explain how rape is hilarious and how the entire rest of the world is wrong for not being able to see the funny side of this?
I went over to /r/starcraft and the major discussion currently seems to be about how the player may have not realized how bad saying that was as English is not his first language and he was just using language the larger gaming community helped him think was normal, which is the bigger problem.
Granted I don't know the authenticity of this argument, but the focus certainly doesn't seem to be how funny rape is. Not all members of the sub seem to be immature shitbirds.
EDIT: Oh wait, there they are, I found the people blaming the woman for "overreacting" to what Kas said and putting the blame on her. I can't imagine the logic hoops these people jump through
You'd have to be really, really bad at English to not understand the definition and connotation that the word 'rape' has.
But I can see how he didn't think twice about it considering that it's pretty normalized language in the gaming community. That's exactly the problem though. It shouldn't be. At some point you can no longer take intention into account when it's such a widespread thing.
I used to be a frequent visitor to that subreddit because I quite enjoy watching and playing the game (my username is even an SC2 reference) but the incessant drama drove me away from it and subsequently the game too. It's incredible how much drama that community can generate. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised since it's basically a microcosm of gaming in general with all of the terrible connotations that brings but also without the watchful oversight of some of the more reasonable segments of the media. I just wish that for once a gaming community could be reasonable and respectful and just talk about the game that brought them together instead of all the fucking bullshit.
I've been a gamer since the early 1980s and I enjoy Starcraft too (although I suck at it - I'm more a Planetary Annihilation type of guy) and I still, after 30+ years of gaming, I still can't have much of a conversation about gaming outside of a small circle of fellow gamers. Why? Because of the stigma of it's most vocal proponents being angry antisocial types who believe their ability to perform better in a virtual world than a real one somehow grants them some sort of special status.
It's not about "ethics" (in either games journalism or gamer behaviour), it seems - to me at least - to be mostly about introverted angry people fearing obvious and impending change to something they view as "theirs".
I always thought that rape meant utterly destroy someone (in a video game. Not the actual rape.)
Pretty weird how a game organization would remove someone for saying that.
And gamers wonder why no one likes them
Are there rules that prohibit certain types of trash talk?
Should a professional say things like this?
Happens in other sports, see Materazzi - Zidane.
Okay but that doesn't answer my question.
I personally have no problem with it. It's just gamesmanship, getting an edge on a weak willed opponent. Would you ban Mike Tyson staring down opponents in case they got intimidated?
Okay, next time you're trash talking somebody who happens to be black tell them you're going to lynch em in your next upcoming match, then see if people get pissed at you.
>t's just gamesmanship, getting an edge on a weak willed opponent
It's a grown man acting like a child. When you're a professional you need to act a certain way. But this is why I hope Pro-Gaming never gets mainstream. Gamers are fucking embarrassing.
I honestly disagree. I don't have a problem with the lynching comment during trash talk, but I'd expect a lot of people to be pissed of and quite understandably. Worse things have been said as part of trash talk in professional sports. You might see it as a grown man acting like a child, but if you've devoted your whole life to becoming the best at a certain sport or game, against someone else who has done the same, competing at the top of your game, it's understandable you would do anything and everything to get an edge. I want to upset you, I don't care if I upset anybody else, I'm taking every edge I can to get the win. It's only a game, nobody is actually getting raped, fucked, destroyed, lynched etc.
>but if you've devoted your whole life to becoming the best at a certain sport or game, against someone else who has done the same, competing at the top of your game, it's understandable you would do anything and everything to get an edge.
Okay bud. I'm going to call my opponent a faggot because that's what a mature adult would do. I should be able to say the most vile, and unnecessary shit, and people should think that's understandable because 'trash talk'. What a joke.
People say they want e-sports to grow but the people involved need to grow first. Only a an idiot would tweet something like this and expect 0 backlash or consequences. Good up on that league for not allowing that kind of stuff.
When he grows up maybe he will think before he speaks. And maybe you can do a little growing up too if you think acting like you're with your buddies instead of a paid professional is 'okay'. There's something called taking it too far. Public figures need to watch what they say more than a regular person.
> I want to upset you, I don't care if I upset anybody else, I'm taking every edge I can to get the win.
Mature and edgy. Whew!
Don't you think it's bad sportsmanship? Saying: " I will beat/destroy you" is totally fair, since most of these games entail some form of beating/destroying, but none depicts rape (or lynching) You're making it personal.
Also, if the only way for you to best your opponent is intimidation, you should probably spend more time training.
> But this is why I hope Pro-Gaming never gets mainstream. Gamers are fucking embarrassing.
Believe it or not, there's plenty of sports players who've done and said some really embarassing shit. You'd have to follow these different sports and players to see that, though.
As soon as ProGaming reaches mainstream, you can bet your ass managers will beat it into their players that this behaviour is unacceptable. Reaching mainstream will probably actually make the scene cleaner and better.
So you are implying that rape is something that happens to women much the way that lynchings happened to Blacks.
I object to that analogy because women are not the only people who can be raped.
By implying rape is a women's issue you are discounting the fact that men get raped too.
> It's just gamesmanship, getting an edge on a weak willed opponent.
It tells me your actual skills are shit and your confidence is low, so you need to resort to insults and threats to elevate yourself by putting your opponent down.
It's definitely not gamesmanship. Quite the opposite.
Materazzi-Zidane things were set in private, face-to-face conversations on a pitch. This was a public tweet adressed to "some girl", situations aren't comparable in the least
Materazzi never said that he would rape any of Zidane's relatives. He was pulling Zidane's shirt, Zidane said: "If you like the shirt that much, I'll give it to you after the game is over", and Materazzi replied: "I'd rather have your sister". If he had said anything about raping Zidane's sister, there would've been larger consequences for Materazzi than just a headbutt.
But this is a comment with clear sexual intent, whereas the intent behind "I'm going to rape you" is an expression of a desire to defeat the opponent soundly.
So this strikes me as a little bit silly, if we are upset about the word rape because of its sexual nature, why should a comment that has genuine sexual intent be less severe?
This is giving the word rape a whole lot of power, and I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
I don't know.
Is there a good reason to impose restrictions on the words professionals use?
Lots of countries have laws prohibiting threats of violence, so kind of?
Reply to a response that was quoting the rule:
Well if seems like the rule needs an overhaul. Obviously there is endless fodder to support the other side, what with the "your mom" humor. If you want to ban something, you need to be explicit.
There's not even drama going on, it's mostly civil discussion....
Who cares about that?
Somebody said that they were going to rape a girl.
Aren't you outraged?
Somebody said something bad to a girl.
Aren't you disgusted?
And then as if that wasn't bad enough there are people trying to justify it with their revolting excuses.
Aren't you horrified?
This whole subject where people use bad words matters enormously to the people in here ... so it obviously must be "drama".
This post literally triggered me. It triggered me so hard.
(mirror | open source | create your own snapshots)
>That we're having this discussion now is a very good thing for eSports
Holy shit, it is exactly the same as the good for bitcoin cliche.
/r/titlegore
This is why people laugh at "professional" gamers. There's nothing professional about it, a bunch of petulant whiny brats on their way to developing carpal tunnel.
She should have said I'm going to rape you back!!! Oh wait...you can't rape a guy because he would like it.
Edit: unless she's fat
if saying "I will rape you" is part of the gaming culture, maybe idk, gaming culture sucks
>This shouldn't be highlighted as a "look what he said to that girl gamer"
Dude literally said "going to rape some girl soon"....
Yeah but,
>Anyway, one of the most successfull examples of anti-oppression activism was reclaiming the word queer, which was originaly a homophobic slur, but its not seen that way today. Similarly, we should reclaim the word rape, by increasing its usage in less serious situations (rape jokes, rape as synonym for defeat in game). So that the word will lose its power as a trigger over time.
You're welcome.
Yeah, females. Wouldn't you rather have other players jokingly threaten to rape you? Gosh, it's sexist to even think otherwise.
Also, some redditors are apparently living in a Vince Vaughn movie:
>But it's not serious at all. You're supposed to joke back. > >It's how guys socialize.
I'm really baffled when I read stuff like "it's how guys socialize". First of all, I think they really should say "it's how male pre-teens and teens talk to seem 3edgy5u".
Then, I think that talking about rape, murder, raping and murdering people's mother/sister/wife/girlfriend/dog/whatever takes a toll on your mind. First of all, it makes you believe that what you said is no big deal. Second, it makes you think it's funny. In addition, I'm pretty sure that when you hear people talking shit about your female relatives you feel bad. There's no way you can convince me that the idea of your little sister getting raped is hilarious. If, on the other hand, it doesn't bother you because you've heard it so many times, I think you have a problem. You actually can't feel bad when people are talking about raping your own mother. How fucked up is that?
I can clearly remember the Steubenville case: there was a recording in which the guys actually raping a girl were laughing and saying "Lol, she's so raped". I'm pretty sure this behaviour stemmed from the fact that they used the term "rape" as the subject matter of jokes.
Yeah, but the uproar only seems to happen when the jokes are directed at women. I guess those big, strong men can it only while those weak, sad women need to protected from any form of negativity.
And anyone who takes that threat seriously needs to have their brain examined for defects.
The appropriate reply to the proclamation of sexual assault-based victory in a video game would have been "Try to rape me after I cut off your dick and feed it to your mother faget."
Frankly, I'm fine with things changing so threats of sexual assault are no longer acceptable.
It's pretty common to say "You're gonna get raped" etc. between male players, and it's weird that it never really caused an uproar or drama like this.
In both instances it shouldn't be used, I just watched Destiny (a streamer) argue that because it's used in other cases like "The Rape of Nanking" or "The Rape of Belgium" that it's okay because Nanking or Belgium weren't literally raped.
Those places were literally raped, since the word also means to utterly fuck up an area.
If someone is going to be a pedantic fuck, they shouldn't half-ass their research.
That comment is pretty much exactly why you shouldn't watch/read/listen to Destiny.
Well the people of Nanking certainly were. Raped I mean.
There was that Smash commentator they cut off during a tournament for saying rape over and over again. I think things are changing more generally, which frankly I'm happy about. When random guys say they will rape me in CS they don't say it in a joking manner but as a way to intimidate me. And I'm lucky to have never been raped, I can't imagine what it would be like to have people hissing "I'll shut you up with my dick down your throat bitch" abruptly reminding you of a real experience, rather than it being a hilarious joke lolz!
Go look up the war crimes in Nanjing and tell me that rape isn't an accurate description of it.
It was one of the most vile, basest moments in human history.
But the people of Nanking, and lots of people of Belgium were raped? I mean, yeah, the geographical area itself wasn't, but, A) is a city just a geographical definition? And B) it seems to me that if you have to use that level of pedantry in an argument, then you should definitely begin rethinking the validity of your position. Words games and war crimes are not a good mix.
Considering how many people were actually raped in Nanking, I would have to disagree.
>Frankly, I hate freedom and ethics in video game journalism.
FTFY.
[deleted]
Yeah, I think people take threats way too seriously. 99% of threats made during online games are not serious threats.
But they all rely on the fact that you don't know which ones are the real ones, so you have to treat them all as real.
If someone doesn't know where you live then it isn't real. Which is usually the case on an online game.
It reminds me of that story recently about the dude that kept harassing some girl in a game, she kept trying to ignore him, and he eventually found where she lived, flew all the way to the UK (I think), and tried to kill her and her family.
You don't have to be paranoid or anything, but holy jeez you don't ever know when the very minor chance of someone being completely whackshit bananas is going to spring on you.
Are you a professional gamer who is in front of a few hundred thousand people and trying to keep sponsors for those who run these tournaments?
If the answer is no, then it is slightly different.
In most games you are literally destroying your opponent in one way or another though. Contextually it makes sense since most competitive games have you attacking or killing your opponent. In fact, in general context is important, when you say you're going to 'destroy' someone while playing a game that's generally okay, if you go on Twitter and say you're going to destroy a girl soon, less so.
They just need to police all threats in general.
There's little difference between threatening to kill me and threatening to rape me.
There was no threat of sexual abuse in this case though, just some standard pregame shittalking
I feel like, and I may be crazy here, if you're professionally doing anything you should have a higher standard of conduct than those who don't. Back in my day we called it poor sportsmanship and I seem to recall there being penalties for it. I may be just remembering things more civilized than they where, though. It still seems like a good idea.
I agree with both CanadaHaz and your comments. Two points that don't excuse the rape tweet, but perhaps put it in a slightly different light. First, judging by the guy's apologies subsequently, he is clearly not proficient in English. Secondly, he is from Ukraine, where these mores must surely be different. I can see where this was a casual joke or boast made without malice. The internet is sort of highlighting these cultural differences as everyone has access to everyone else instantaneously. In this instance, if this guy learned something, that can be a good thing.
What? What day was your day? Shit talking in pro sports has been around for decades. There have been stories about guys like Ty Cobb and Satchel Paige being excellent shit talkers, and now with microphones everywhere the shit get picked up. Guys like Cortland Finnegan and Sean Avery are more well known for their shit talk than their talent. Go buy courtside seats the next time the nets are in your city and listen to the absolute fucking vitriol that comes out of Kevin Garnett's mouth.
E-sports want to be taken seriously, but they don't want to abide by social mores. Can you imagine a pro football player tweeting "I'm going to rape (other player)"? You think they'd get away with it?
I think many of the professional gaming communities are moving towards higher standards of conduct, which is why I don't find this shit surprising.
I think early on in League of Legends players used to be able to say rape and whatnot, but that slowly got shut down along with many other such insults.
Yea, it may have been a woman that this happened to in SC2. But come on, it was bound to happen at one point. Just happened to be the last straw.
The scene is changing to appeal to more than 12 year old children who yell faggot at their xbox.
/r/news: more mature than /r/starcraft.
A stark but fair indictment.
Edit: jesus christ he's still going. Right swiping someone on Tinder = literally the same as a rape threat.
If I swipe with my dick, is it full rape?
Fun fact: All of the posts by me and other people saying rape jokes aren't okay were highly upvoted in the first hour or so of the thread. It wasn't until destiny tweeted that suddenly everything got mass downvoted. My initial post was sitting at +16 prior to Destiny's fans brigading the sub.
So, like.. Maybe there is hope for the sc2 community? Hopefully a lot of these people are just Destiny cultists and not really normal SC2 community members.
Destiny is known for literally asking his fans to downvote shit.
I don't really get into the esports scene, but I always get the impression that Destiny just likes to throw himself into whatever drama is going on at whatever time just to stir shit.
Sometimes I feel like esports is not unlike high school.
Well, did he?
I'm sure we'd hear all about it if he did....
People should be free from the fear of threats.
Can you imagine the terror she must have felt?
I can't wait for the cops to jump on this actionable threat and put him into the court system where we can prove his statement wasn't "emotionally charged rhetoric" and, as such, is not protected speech.
Maddelisk actually made a blog post about it, in Swedish though it was on the frontpage of /r/sweden.
What a twat. That guy sounds like a 16 year old kid with his tweets. "#wannakillmyself"? Really?
So many pro gamers really don't get that their passion is poised on a knife edge of going mainstream or being stuck as a niche pursuit. Or, they have self-selected to be a Confederacy of Douchebags and that's the way they're gonna stay.
They're generally hyper competitive people that have never received coaching or guidance about sportsmanship, and I can't imagine their parents have been very supportive of their hobby, since there hasn't been any real money in it until a couple years ago.
I think it makes sense a lot of these pro gamers are douchebags, but that'll hopefully change when e-sports mature a bit.
Is it really that hard to just not be a dick? Is training really required?
I think public image awareness would be a good idea especially if you're not good with people in general, you see so many unaware celebrities get drunk or something and post something explosive on twitter and you know that either their publicist or manager woke them up screaming bloody murder or they have no publicist or manager and is probably doomed
It's like a game of jenga and the smallest mistake or wrong move could ruin everything for you and since twitter it's an especially fragile thing. Being in the public eye reminds me of bomb disposal, one word move could set it off and you see celebrities blow it up in their face all the time
Like Azealia Banks. What was her manager doing??? Where was her publicist and public training? If she never knew about twitter or just chose to not engage in drama she would have been fine but no, she fucked up and now she's starting to understand the importance of public image and reputation
a big part of mainstream organized competitive activities whether it's what we traditionally call sports or even stuff like marching band and debate team involves authority figures teaching people sportsmanship (aka not being a dick.)
I could see someone who chose to play video games instead may not grasp this. It's not that all gamers are social misfits unable to function in society, it's just that they may not get how they're crossing lines most people agreed not to cross and coming off like a dick accidentally.
Yeah I think it is, especially when you consider that the type of person who'll spend a full-time jobs worth of time playing a game usually isn't very popular in mainstream society. I think I'd likely be pretty spiteful and bitter too.
You can't even threaten sexual violence against women in friendly competition anymore. I thought this was ~~America~~ Sweden.
It's political correctness gone mad, Stew.
"It's shit isn't it, being fair to people?"
Edit: MimesAreShite and I are quoting this.
I think people missed my reference.
Threatening sexual violence against men in friendly competition is still, as far as I can tell, A-OK.
Yeah, I think it's a bit sexist to say 'women are fragile creature and so we need to treat them more delicately'
Alternatively you could say it's sexist to expect men to "just man up and take it".
Well yeah I agree with both, but obviously SRD doesn't think patronising women is sexist.
I don't think it's patronizing to ask for common decency. I would expect a grown up not to threaten to rape anyone.
right, but the comment i was replying to was saying how nobody really gave a shit when it was the men being targeted, only when it was the woman.
That saddens me. Even if it is not meant literally, there are enough male survivors of childhood sexual abuse and adolescent and adult sexual assault that that Word itself could be triggering
As much as this is an unpopular opinion, I don't believe it's the responsibility of the general populous to police their every word in case it could be triggering.
If someone knows they can be triggered, it is primarily their responsibility to avoid places/subjects that could trigger them.
It is unfair to expect everyone they interact with to specially manage their behavior, especially if this is a first interaction or an anonymous/online interaction.
I agree, that's just pandering to the lowest common denominator. It reminds me of this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/M0cuxJsSjdU/SMQAws8BOI/AAAAAAAAEyo/ln6c64x16TI/s1600-h/pc.jpg
> As much as this is an unpopular opinion, I don't believe it's the responsibility of the general populous to police their every word in case it could be triggering.
You're right it is unpopular, because only assholes actually believe that.
So you believe that it's everyone's job to carefully police every little thing you say just in case someone somewhere will be offended, upset, or otherwise emotionally damaged by what I have to say?
I have news for you. Everything anyone says can, and will, be taken that way by someone.
and theres the argument used by a person who really really really wants to keep using the word rape
no, nobody is saying that every single word in the dictionary is going to get policed but it is really really easy to stop using rape in everyday conversation if you want to be polite, considerate, and empathetic to other people.
woaw
You are assuming a lot about me that I never said.
I don't use the word rape in that context and I especially don't tweet it.
Please read my arguments instead of making fun of me for something I don't do.
It's not hard to avoid the word 'rape', or any other heavily loaded words.
I understand that however that means that people who have a history of sexual violence, and that is a lot of people, really have no safe spaces. I think it is ok to ask people not to use the word rape inappropriately. It isn't like saying the word lamp is triggering for one person so we should not use it. Rather, rape is a violent crime and should not be taken and talked about lately in my humble opinion.
That's assuming that I'm advocating this behavior everywhere by everyone.
There are plenty of safe spaces in society, I am objecting to coming into a space that could be triggering and then demanding the people already there conform to your standards.
I think that's a pretty serious invasion.
That said, people who are triggered are very much free to make their own safe space whenever they want.
Do you think victims of male sexual abuse did not also grow up playing video games? They're not invading the space, they've been there the whole time, and only now are enough people speaking out to actually make everyone realize how huge a problem it really is.
I wouldn't suggest anyone that sensitive to read up or watch dramatic content.
What happens in sports media is not that different from soap operas. It's all fun and games until the actors fight or sexually assault each other off the set.
Up next: black people call each other "nigger", but when I do it, somehow I'm a racist.
DOUBLE STANDARDS AMIRITE GUISE
In fact it's repulsive and outrageous that raping a male victim is still considered somewhat funny by a certain kind of people.
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but the thing that makes this incident spicey and meta is that another player ~~tweeted~~ stated before that he will rape his LAN opponent (both male) on stage and got cheered on for that.
Oh well, the word "rape" in video games. Delicious tears and drama! :)
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le downboats really?
Didnt MC once say he was going to rape his opponent on stage, I remember everyone cheering back then.
Isn't this what equality is all about? So that we all can live in a world where a woman can threaten to rape a man before an E-Sports match, and the same in reverse. I don't get what all the fuss is about, I thought that was common online gaming language, no matter the gender.
Edit: Well that turned fast from upvotes to downvotes.
I have been gaming all my life, and I do not think using 'rape' so casually is cool. The hammer should be brought down every time it happens.
Edit: words
What about the intent of the speaker?
Clearly these people are not actually advocating sexual violence, just aggressive gameplay.
It may be common online language but I would like to see it changed against people of all genders
Ah, yes, it was this incident. My bad.
that colloquialism is used to mean "to defeat" in this context, not "to sexually assault". Just like if he said "I am going to straight up murder her" in this context he means beat her at a game, not slit her throat. ironically the latter would have probably been okay to say as long as he said "her" not "that bitch" .
edit:i know, i know, the only truely proper thing he could say is: "I plan to achieve a numerically higher score than my opponent and thus relegate them to a worse ranking than myself in this game"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2zlPNGuPbw
I don't think there has been a day in my gaming career when a guy has said "hey marianzilla, are you ready to get raped m8?" And all I say is "im going to rip your asshole so far apart you won't be able to hold your shit without surgery".
I wish more women would stop taking shit talking so seriously. Rape isn't a joke but come on. It's only game. Y u haff 2 be mad?
Because as a fellow gamer I think it is important we stop making rape such a casual threat. Even if it is "just a game". I dish it out just as hard as I can take it, but the use of rape in casual gaming lingo isn't helping the community at all.
Also Maddelisk could probably beat the shit out of that guy she is one ripped chick. I can't do this: http://i.imgur.com/fiR98jm.jpg
Fuckin hell, that's impressive.
That space station has a nice gym.
I had never heard of this woman until now but she sounds fucking badass. And a Mathematics PhD?!?
...
Damn
Check her twitter pic, she does it off the people.
I've been fit but never that fit.
Oh no, professionals are now being held accountable to one of the basest levels of professionalism, whatever will we do now.Personally i'm not sure how society will recover from this blow to free speech.
I don't care what word this guy used. What happened to having sportsmanship? This isn't wrestling where the trash talk is being thrown around from scripted characters. This is a competition, treat your opponent with some respect.
Yep, the same people howling about the joke being okay for whatever reason will be back tomorrow talking about how esports deserves more legitimacy and games are an artform.
I remember when people used to drag out the dictionary definition of faggot to defend the use of that word, now defining rape is the hot thing to do. I've seen the definition of rape brought up in at least 3 different threads today.
I honestly miss the days of "faggot" in my online game. Everyone just switched to saying "nigger."
4chan still calls everyone nigger and faggot and niggerfaggot
If you are really missing the indiscriminate use of the word faggot, 4chan is open for everyone.
I heard that a number of the most childish channers have migrated over to 8chan.
4chan chill detected /r/hailcorporate
Shill out man
Did you heard that?
You sound like you been on there since summer.
For the people that thought 4chan was being too reasonable.
Louis CK needs to do a bit about how when he was a kid, he didn't know sexual violence was even a thing, and "rape" just meant to beat someone soundly. Then everyone can quote that.
Just wait until South Park does an episode on it. Then everyone without the ability to think, or realize that the show is actually satire will be able to reference it in defense of their actions.
In all fairness, South Park is also a mouth piece for Parker and Stone, and the line where satire ends and the duo's legitimate beliefs begin can be pretty hard to see. Especially when their satirizing their own beliefs.
They've said over and over again in interviews that they use the show as a tool just to see how far they can push the limits. They like to be as over the top and ridiculous as possible just for the hell of it. Probably not the kind of people you want to calibrate your moral barometer from.
And more importantly, just because some people are capable of making the subject funny doesn't mean that it is okay. Even if they honestly believe it themselves.
Not so sure about your moral barometer point. Trey Parker and Matt Stone are satirists, not shock comics. Using "A Modest Proposal" as an example, a big part of satire has been using absurdity and pushing the absolute limits of what is acceptable to demonstrate a belief. Creating an absurd situation (particularly one that is "in poor taste", as the audience will pass judgment on it) is a great tool to use to draw parallels to real situations, which is why satire is such a commonly used form of social criticism.
If you want to attack the beliefs that South Park are espousing, go ahead, but at least understand that they are part of a much larger tradition of doing what they do going all the way back to ancient Greece. Cartman, Kenny, or even Stan would make a pretty poor moral barometer, but I don't think the message of the work as a whole necessarily is a poor one because of the methods they use.
I think you're missing the point. People cite the biker episode of South Park all the time when defending their right to call people faggots without being called homophobic pricks for it. They take the episode at face value and use it to reinforce dickish behavior. That'd be like someone reading A Modest Proposal and then deciding that it's okay to eat babies.
Oh, no, I agree with that. My point is just saying "Jonathan Swift is a poor moral barometer" because people use his work to justify eating babies isn't fair. That's not on the work, that's on the people who are unable to interpret it.
Edit: Similarly, saying Swift is a poor moral barometer because he liked to push lines and advocated eating children is missing the point of what he was pushing lines towards.
There was a South Park episode where George Lucas was "raping" Star Wars. Each time it was said in the episode there would be a depiction of sexual assault that got more and more egregious as the episode went on. Made me feel rather uncomfortable towards the end of the episode. It was well done.
They were all recreations of rape scenes from movies. Deliverance and The Accused are the only ones I remember off the top of my head.
And Chris Rock's bit on the n-word. Ironic that his bit wound up being fuel for racist douchebags.
The episode of the Office where Michael get's in trouble for doing that routine is genius and is what got me into that show.
I think that he recognized that and stop doing bits like that. Which is a shame cuz that bit was hilarious
I'm sure Bill Burr has a routine like that somewhere in the archives.
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What a weirdly dangerous way to phrase this. Bill Burr used to do a bit about extreme examples of justifiably hitting a woman which was basically like if she drowns your kids in a bathtub it's ok. That's way different than "has a bit about hitting women".
He actually has a couple of bits about hitting women (or being hit by women) as well as one in his most recent one defense against being hit by women. Though ive watched and realize this is an SJW haven for professional umbrage takers who are typically unable to understand jokes and/or reality nowadays. I have to stop lurking state as an avid Bill Burr fan you are 100% correct. This is another mischaracterization by those who believe women (ALLL DA WOMEN) are saintly m'ladies whom shalt never be hitted. I just need to interject that the former statement was super false (big fan).
I'm just waiting for someone to bring up the Rape of the Sabine Women as justification. "Don't you see, he didn't want to sexually assault her, he just wanted to kidnap her and force her to marry him!"
Which totally didn't imply actual rape following the forced nuptials... (I know that you know that, but people who bring it up in conversation about what "rape" means typically don't.)
ROME NEEDED CHILDREN OK!!!!