I will pay you $1000, USD, if you change it back. Give the site to me, and i will mod it if you wish. Or you can mod it and change it back. This is not a joke (self.AtheismPolicy)

AtheismPolicy

34 ups - 24 downs = 10 votes

Deal?

70 comments submitted at 19:53:01 on Jun 20, 2013 by Realik

  • [-]
  • IndulginginExistence
  • 8 Points
  • 20:01:32, 20 June

Can this be done according to reddits rules?

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 4 Points
  • 20:05:20, 20 June

No.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 2 Points
  • 20:06:21, 20 June

Can you state specifically which of the ToS this breaks? I'm not saying it doesn't, but I'm not seeing it.

  • [-]
  • intortus
  • 20 Points
  • 20:20:29, 20 June

Any sort of influence on reddit is emphatically not for sale. Empires have fallen over this issue.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 5 Points
  • 20:21:36, 20 June

So it's not "up for sale" but it's "to whoever can grab it first" and that seems objectively better to you... not equally arbitrary?

Edit: keep in mind I'm not offering money. I'm not saying this is "the best solution." I'm saying it's equally as arbitrary as the current setup in many cases (this being one).

  • [-]
  • intortus
  • 13 Points
  • 20:33:36, 20 June

Yes, reddit is a platform where anyone can build and participate in the communities they want. It's not a place for people or corporations to buy out the namespaces they want to control.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 3 Points
  • 20:40:48, 20 June

"It's not a place for people or corporations to buy out the namespaces they want to control."

I understand how it works. I was making the point (which nobody will see now, I don't know why I keep going ;) that the current system of installing mods (such as we just witnessed) seems to be no less arbitrary. Different in mechanics, but you still get people who are "fervent" or "lucky" rather than "qualified."

I'm not trying to remake Reddit... I don't want to have people "buying influence." I was trying to bring attention to what I see as a separate but similar problem.

  • [-]
  • highguy420
  • 4 Points
  • 22:35:58, 20 June

Fair and Arbitrary are not mutually exclusive concepts. Random allocation is both fair and completely arbitrary.

"First come, first served" is a very fair and arbitrary system. It would be unfair to allow people to buy influence over subreddits. That would also be arbitrary, but just because it is arbitrary that does not mean it is at all fair.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • -1 Points
  • 22:46:13, 20 June

Fair means applied equally. If we give everyone the opportunity to spend money it is fair.

  • [-]
  • highguy420
  • 4 Points
  • 23:18:20, 20 June

Um. No. That's what the word "equal" means.

A "fair chance" is not equal in results, even though it is equal in opportunity. Everyone in the nation had a "fair chance" at a mining claim in the west, but only a few took the initiative to seek them out and actually claim them.

Every human being has a fair chance to register any subreddit. Some would say even an equal chance at being the first. Any human being could register any new subreddit at any given time.

As I said before "first come, first served" is a very fair, and equal policy. The patent system is based on first come, first served and it seems to be designed with "fairness" as a very strong factor in its design and purpose. They could evaluate each application and determine the candidate who is most qualified, but that itself would not be fair.

It is almost as if you do not understand the concept of fairness distinct from other ideas. The access to the opportunity is fair, not necessarily the results.

Furthermore, reddit is not fair. Some reddits are defaults. That is not fair. If you want to complain about something advocate for a new user to start with zero subscribed reddits and they are asked to subscribe to all of them that they are actually interested in. Then each subreddit would have a fair chance of gaining new users and growing on their own merits.

Maybe support a change to reddit which requires "default" subreddits to be run democratically, where moderators can be recalled and replaced with a vote from the active and subscribed members. You either run your subreddit in the public's interest, or you run a private subreddit with private rules.

Just a thought I came up with instead of arguing with you about the definition of the word "fair".

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • -1 Points
  • 23:44:23, 20 June

Just like everyone has an equal chance to be first everyone has an equal chance to be richest.

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 2 Points
  • 20:09:48, 20 June

It's been tried before and the users who tried it got banned. I remember talking to some default mods (andrewsmith comes to mind) and they have been offered money to give someone a mod spot before. The person making the request was subsequently banned.

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 0 Points
  • 20:12:04, 20 June

Can you imagine the precedent it would set if people were allowed to sell off top mod positions on defaults subreddits?

  • [-]
  • grimsleeper101
  • 6 Points
  • 21:04:44, 20 June

Can you imagine the precedent it would set if some mods took over a default subreddit and arbitrarily decided to impose their vision upon the community despite popular backlash?

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 1 Points
  • 21:51:28, 20 June

Mods have shut down defaults before. Admins don't care what mods do with their subreddits. It's important people know that.

  • [-]
  • grimsleeper101
  • 0 Points
  • 21:57:26, 20 June

So you agree that it is a dangerous precedent and that we should take a stand and stop this kind of behaivour continuing?

  • [-]
  • blackstar9000
  • 1 Points
  • 00:02:02, 21 June

I agree that it's a precedent. I'm not yet convinced that it's any more dangerous that allowing completely inactive mods to hold onto subs indefinitely, or allowing moderators to sell their positions.

And whether or not you should take a stand, I don't yet see any evidence that there's a legal or ToS-abiding stand you could take that would do any good in the face of a genuinely determined moderation team. Ultimately, you could probably do more good by concentrating on simply making a better atheism sub than the one you left.

  • [-]
  • grimsleeper101
  • 1 Points
  • 00:14:31, 21 June

I wouldn't say that it is any more dangerous than paying for a mod post. I do think it is more dangerous than skeen's example as he stated how he would run the sub and then stayed true to this. Also it has been interesting to hear skeen's side of this whole affair over at /r/atheismrebooted.

However, I think that saying there is no legal or ToS breach by the mods misses the point. Most people are making the distinction that we understand that the mods can do what they did, but shouldn't have done it. Combine that with the current mod aversion to openness and you can understand why it is important that the community continues to make a stand through criticism and dissent (not abuse or threats) and prevents hijacking of subs by overzealous mods becoming an accepted practice.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 1 Points
  • 20:13:26, 20 June

None? They seem to have arbitrarily assumed their positions already (many by simply being the first to create some sub). I don't see that "money" being used as the measure is any more or less arbitrary than "chronology."

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • -1 Points
  • 20:15:52, 20 June

Now we are just being ridiculous. If you can't realize the implications of selling off mod spots to the highest bidder then this conversation is over.

Perhaps allowing a top mod to be the first person to create a sub may not be ideal but that doesn't meaning offering the spots to the people with the most cash is a good idea either.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 1 Points
  • 20:17:44, 20 June

"Perhaps allowing a top mod to be the first person to create a sub may not be ideal but that doesn't meaning offering the spots to the people with the most cash is a good idea either. "

I just don't see how it's more or less arbitrary. It may allow "worse" people, but it seems equally likely it will allow "better" people. The top mod is almost always entirely arbitrary, and then they have complete control over who they add... so an extension of the arbitrary top-mod's authority.

I get what you're saying... it wouldn't be great at all... I just don't see that it would be worse, either.

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 2 Points
  • 20:19:49, 20 June

It seems equally likely to squarely prevent people without money from ever moderating a subreddit despite their qualifications. Surely you are trolling me with this shit?

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • -1 Points
  • 20:20:33, 20 June

"It seems equally likely to squarely prevent people without money from ever moderating a subreddit despite their qualifications. Surely you are trolling me with this shit?"

It doesn't do that at all. It just adds another category which people can be selected by, it does not in any way exclude the other possibility.

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 0 Points
  • 20:21:50, 20 June

Also, if you don't like a top mod you can go and create your own sub...that is of course if you have the necessary capital to start your own subreddit. Hell, while we are at it why not allow corporations to pay for content? Why not allow spammers to just put their spam on Reddit and leave it alone? If corporations cut a check to all the subscribers should they be allowed to promote content that favors them? If they pay enough should we also remove posts that don't favor them?

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • -2 Points
  • 20:23:38, 20 June

Slippery slope. We were talking about letting mods buy their way in rather than insert their way in.

We can allow gay marriage without letting people marry their garden hoses.

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 1 Points
  • 20:26:34, 20 June

What your doing right now is wasting your time. This has less chance of ever happening than the mods reversing all their policies on r/atheism.

More Comments - Not Stored
  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 4 Points
  • 20:04:43, 20 June

no idea. The rules don't matter anymore. A sub was stolen from people, and they are proven liars. Fuck the rules. We have tyrants.

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 5 Points
  • 20:06:21, 20 June

The Reddit rules always matter while you are on Reddit. They are set by the admins who control this site and don't care about your squabbles with moderators as long as people abide by their rules.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • -7 Points
  • 20:07:13, 20 June

not a squabble it is a fight for the right to fight anti-reason

  • [-]
  • TheRedditPope
  • 3 Points
  • 20:08:14, 20 June

The admins don't care about that either.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 1 Points
  • 21:25:52, 20 June

I'm sure the admins have other priorities, but they're also not soulless.

  • [-]
  • DangerMouse_11
  • 11 Points
  • 20:12:23, 20 June

Please take the $1000 and give it to a good cause of your choice, this is not a good idea

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 6 Points
  • 20:57:14, 20 June

I agree but I am running out of ideas. Shotgun method.

  • [-]
  • Lots42
  • 4 Points
  • 22:08:48, 20 June

I want to see a picture of you with the money and a slice of pizza and a drawing a cat fighting a dinosaur.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • -1 Points
  • 22:11:17, 20 June

i mean if it helps us spread the word that there are many out there that doubt anti-reason, and superstition than i will do it.

  • [-]
  • GodOfAtheism
  • 9 Points
  • 21:41:00, 20 June

The subreddit is not for sale.

  • [-]
  • jpeger0101
  • 4 Points
  • 21:42:14, 20 June

WHAAAAT?! When did this happen?! I demand to know.

  • [-]
  • dustinyo
  • 3 Points
  • 00:12:41, 21 June

I am though. Just throwing that out there.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • -1 Points
  • 22:07:05, 20 June

then how to i submit my application for a formal Coup?

  • [-]
  • blackstar9000
  • 2 Points
  • 00:03:21, 21 June

You wait until the current mods have been inactive for 60 days, then submit your request to /r/redditrequest.

  • [-]
  • fairy_cupcake
  • 0 Points
  • 22:14:08, 20 June

Fill out form 10A-Butthurt and submit it in the style of your favorite meme.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • -1 Points
  • 22:19:55, 20 June

thanks for taking this issue seriously

  • [-]
  • fairy_cupcake
  • -2 Points
  • 22:24:54, 20 June

Wait, you were serious?! You think theres an actual application for a 'formal Coup'?

Wow. Just wow. I have no words for that level of stupidity.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 1 Points
  • 22:37:00, 20 June

no...i was joking. What are you even doing here?

  • [-]
  • fairy_cupcake
  • -2 Points
  • 22:39:49, 20 June

Wait, so you wish I'd take seriously what you were joking about?

What are you doing here?

  • [-]
  • Fishbowl_Helmet
  • 0 Points
  • 00:09:41, 21 June

It should be. No matter who bought it would certainly do a better job than you trolls.

  • [-]
  • thimblyjoe
  • 5 Points
  • 20:22:24, 20 June

I want this site back the way it was as much as anyone, but this is an awful idea.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 4 Points
  • 20:59:02, 20 June

I agree with you. I just don't know what else to do

  • [-]
  • dustinyo
  • 3 Points
  • 00:14:44, 21 June

Maybe move on with your life? You are clearly taking reddit WAY too seriously if you're actually willing to drop a grand for something this trivial and meaningless.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 0 Points
  • 00:15:57, 21 June

it is not about reddit it is about reason. We have 2 million members, this is the single greatest power to fight faith and superstition i have access too and i will not let it fade away.

  • [-]
  • dustinyo
  • 4 Points
  • 00:18:38, 21 June

Jesus christ... are you being serious right now?

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 1 Points
  • 00:20:42, 21 June

I am being serious. Everything i said is true. Faith, and superstition, and anti-reason are the worst things on earth. They cause more badness than anything else. It is a massive cancer, and it is not easy to combat it. One way we have is to talk about how rediclious it is over and over. And one of the best methods we had to do that...had been marginalized. If you want to look at the small picture. Fine. But leave us who care about the long arch of humanity alone to fix this.

  • [-]
  • ExParteVis
  • 1 Points
  • 00:24:22, 21 June

/r/atheism can change the world!

your upvotes can change the world!

Can I come to your middle school graduation?

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 1 Points
  • 00:27:36, 21 June

it does, it has, it can. People talking on the internet changes the world all the time.

  • [-]
  • ExParteVis
  • 1 Points
  • 00:34:21, 21 June

you are so adorable! Where can I get one of you?

  • [-]
  • RoboNerdOK
  • 2 Points
  • 00:19:41, 21 June

No deal. I'll take what's behind door#2.

  • [-]
  • Realik
  • 1 Points
  • 00:21:44, 21 June

that is the rabble with pitch forks.

  • [-]
  • r0zden0z
  • -1 Points
  • 21:06:49, 20 June

It's a fucking page on a website. Go outside more.

  • [-]
  • liquoricericeliquor
  • 0 Points
  • 21:17:54, 20 June

People have paid more for less. People easily spend $1,000 just to play games, or to ride on a boat, or a weekend retreat or any number of things. Value is entirely subjective. Hell, the value of $1,000 is subjective; if he makes over $100 an hour it's only -ten hours of work to be able to afford it.

This is a community which he is offering to moderate for a, what I would consider, small amount of money for what it could be worth to said community. It has a lot of value for a lot of people; it's not like atheists really have churches or community gatherings that often, so it was a place for a lot of them to get together and share their minds much in the way religious people are encouraged to do weekly+.

  • [-]
  • 735282
  • 4 Points
  • 21:54:36, 20 June

if someone is offering to pay $1000 for literally nothing instead of say donating to charity they are a pretty terrible person

  • [-]
  • liquoricericeliquor
  • -1 Points
  • 22:01:17, 20 June

How is a community literally nothing? Please, explain it.

Then go and tell me how much reddit sold for,

then tell me how much myspace sold for,

then tell me how much facebook sold for,

then tell me how much flickr sold for,

then tell me communities are worth literally nothing.

  • [-]
  • ghastlyactions
  • 1 Points
  • 21:23:36, 20 June

I'd be willing to pay my 0.0005 dollars to have it reverted back the way it was.

Not saying money is the way to solve this, but $1000 is $0.0005 apiece (actually just under) and it's worth more than that much to me, by a wide margin.

  • [-]
  • r0zden0z
  • 0 Points
  • 22:02:34, 20 June

Oh yes, I forgot that you neckbeards are making 100+/hr trading stocks in your parents' basements; $1000 is but a pittance.

Seriously, though, why are you guys so attached to earning imaginary points for stupid pictures? Your entire subreddit has been pompous and self-important for ages, constantly acting as though you're the smartest guys in the room, and yet now you're like a bunch of idiots that never progressed beyond reading picture books. Bawwww no more easily-consumed pithy may-may to encourage my feelings of self-righteousness!

  • [-]
  • liquoricericeliquor
  • 0 Points
  • 22:06:03, 20 June

Oh, yes, I forgot you /r/magicskyfairy /r/cringepics users have valuable opinions, and aren't neckbeards from subreddits set up to make fun of or troll people. Please, tell us more; hopefully it'll cause the hair from our necks to fall out as we become as mature and socially enlightened as you.

Let me get right onto listening to what you say, right after I drop a powerful factbomb on you: If you're on here enough to get annoyed with another community to the point where you go to other communities to make fun of it, you're probably one of those neckbeards you try so desperately to make fun of.

  • [-]
  • r0zden0z
  • 1 Points
  • 22:06:58, 20 June

Thanks for calling me a faggot in a PM.

  • [-]
  • liquoricericeliquor
  • 0 Points
  • 22:12:28, 20 June

You're welcome. I also called you poor and spiteful, if you didn't notice. I thought I'd attempt to appeal to your core in private and the users in public.

  • [-]
  • r0zden0z
  • 0 Points
  • 22:43:49, 20 June

Sure thing, buddy. Stop editing your comments so drastically, I understand that you're getting a bad case of l'esprit de l'escalier but try to stick to what you write.

  • [-]
  • liquoricericeliquor
  • 1 Points
  • 23:01:36, 20 June

Drastic changes referred to:

Addendum after "troll people." until "Let me" in my first reply to you.

Addendum after "notice." in my second.

Addendum after: "second post." in my third.

Act like that matters, especially after I just said I'm attempting to appeal to people. That is a super harsh of you to call me out, bro. Good job.

  • [-]
  • ExParteVis
  • 0 Points
  • 00:20:51, 21 June

I'll take the $1000