Ancap fights the good fight against minimum wage in /r/badeconomics (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
46 ups - 0 downs = 46 votes
218 comments submitted at 22:00:58 on Oct 29, 2014 by PhysicsIsMyMistress
Ancap fights the good fight against minimum wage in /r/badeconomics (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
46 ups - 0 downs = 46 votes
218 comments submitted at 22:00:58 on Oct 29, 2014 by PhysicsIsMyMistress
HURR DURR LEFTIST CIRCLE JERK TIME. MINIMUM WAGE IS GOOD BECUZ MEXICANS STEALIN OUR JERBS.
/r/SubredditDramaDrama here we come!
I've embraced it. It is fun this time for some reason. It really is like arguing with a fourteen year old.
As far as arguments for anarcho-capitalism go this is probably the most persuasive one I've heard yet.
Considering that an-capism is basically the philosophical equivalent of shitting directly into your own mouth, this doesn't surprise me.
You just won't accept this ancap solution to world hunger because statists hate the poor and are are the real racists. /s
That would explain why I feel the same general reaction to their comments as I do to tubgirl.
That's a pretty accurate analogy.
http://hotmeme.net/media/i/9/d/jW9-michael-scott-roastmaster.jpg
You needed an argument for not pointing guns at people who have done nothing to you?
I think we've found the problem.
Oh boy. I guess I'll help start the popcorn popping.
Do you think taxation is literally theft? Why don't people start their own businesses in this situation? How do you feel about the accusation of philosophically shitting directly into your own mouth? Why don't dramanauts just start their own businesses in this situation? How do you feel about immigrants? Why aren't people starting businesses?
> Do you think taxation is literally theft?
How do you define "theft" in a way that is both objective and not circular?
You might also want to learn how to copy and paste, because the rest of your post is just nonsense.
But why aren't they starting businesses? Do I need a car to start a taxi business?
You just need a username in SRD to start the popcorn though!
You should try listening to someone who isn't Stefan Molyneux or from the Mises Institute.
I don't listen to Molyneux, but you completely evaded my point.
Your point is idiotic. Most five year olds have a better, more complex understanding of how government and society works than AnCaps do.
Let me jump in here, AnCaps are for no government or police at all? But! They are for private security to protect property, or neighborhood funded security to protect communities?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that whole "Don't point a gun at me for no reason!" argument kind of flies out the window when if I drive through the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time private security people will tell me to gtfo, and I'm assuming they will have guns.
So, as to my understanding AnCaps want us to go back to a tribal, you protect your own I'll protect my own type system. Do they also think human nature will change magically and there won't be open tribal warfare when neighbors have conflicts? That is insanity.
Ya, that about sums up what they believe.
here's the great part: keep going! private property is all that exists and there are no laws other than an agreement to not initiate aggression as you define it! there's so much to do with this idea. sell your kids! buy all the land around your neighbor's house and rightfully shoot him for tresspassing when he tries to go get food! buy the only fire engine in town and reap the profits! buy thirty feet of the only road into a town, hire some mercenaries, and see what the town will pay for food! YOU'LL SHOW THEM ALL!
If I hire a migrant worker for less than what the government says the minimum wage should be, and that worker accepts my offer, what will the government do about that?
They will (rightfully) stop you from taking advantage of someone in poverty.
Stop me how?
And what makes it right? The migrant worker agreed to the job. How are they going to tell him what is good for him better than he himself is?
>Stop me how?
By using the many levers of government to put pressure on you until you stop breaking the law.
>And what makes it right? The migrant worker agreed to the job. How are they going to tell him what is good for him better than he himself is?
Taken to its natural conclusion, job "offerers" could collude to deflate wages until no one can afford to provide for themselves. That's the point of the minimum wage.
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Ya I'm not having this debate with you. You AnCaps are worse than just about any religious zealot when it comes to how fundamentalist you are with your beliefs.
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Giving someone employment is not "taking advantage of them.
Employment is a voluntary trade of skills, time, and labor for currency. It's mutually beneficial. If I hire someone to repair my broken fridge, I am not taking advantage of them at all.
Your understanding of basic economics and reality is lacking.
"Take this $0.50 an hour job or else you starve :D"
"What do you mean I'm exploiting him? He agreed to it!"
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You should look in the mirror.
Your points are idiotic as you clearly have a poor understanding of voluntaryism/ancaps .
I've read plenty of AnCap literature (The Ethics of Liberty, Man Economy and the State, you name it), I just understand it to be full of shit.
You've read a lot of shit.
> You needed an argument for not pointing guns at people who have done nothing to you?
What is the deal with these metaphorical guns? I really don't understand how living in a statist society is equivalent to having a gun pointed at me.
i'm gonna say 15, is that about right? maybe 16?
don't be ridiculous, with an IQ that low he wouldn't be able to breathe
That's how old you have to be to still be a liberal. Once you're grown up and you get a real job and the government steals a new car from you every year in taxes, and gives you nothing but some poorly maintained roads in return, you'll understand the problem.
Go on, ask your mommy and daddy how many Playstations' worth they pay in taxes every year.
lol that's a yes
Thanks for confirming you have no idea how much somebody with a real job pays in taxes.
Oh ok, I get it. Taxation is theft. Military protection, infrastructures like roads, power, water, the court system, funding space travel, funding medical research and education - those are "stealing".
Cliven Bundy is now my hero, you've changed my mind with your well-reasoned and not at all shortsighted, strange power-fantasy based world view.
Would you be ok with the government raising your taxes further still and providing you with "free" meals that it picks out for you? Why not housing too? And cars? Why not literally everything? Tax everybody at 100% and let the government decide what we get. If it's a good idea for those other things you mentioned, why not everything?
Well, to put it simply we don't need collective wealth and large-scale projects for cars and food, because a sandwich costs $5. We do need collective wealth and large scale projects for roads and power in a country of 300 million people, otherwise those things wouldn't exist. You seem to think we're living in a tribe of 300 on an island somewhere.
> You seem to think
It doesn't seem like that to me.
I'm only saying that because AnCap principles would work pretty well in a community like that, but on a large scale? Not at all.
AnCap principles don't even work on a small scale. Things like aquaculture and water rights are too vulnerable to externalities. There's a reason why humans as a whole have moved towards organized society: it's good at solving lots of problems and facilitates people working together.
> AnCap principles would work pretty well in a community like that
the hell they would. i caught the deer this time. all the deer meat is mine and i'm under no obligation to share it with the other hunters unless i want to, and i don't because i'm a total asshole. we've now gone from several fairly well fed hunters to one fat hunter and a bunch of emaciated ones and now everyone sucks at hunting and hates eachother.
Hmm, I mean I just learned what an AnCap was 24 hours ago so I assumed it would be workable if the community were small enough, but you're totally right it's 100% lunacy. Isn't it funny that I know next to nothing about it and this guy who seems to live and breathe the stuff can't make a single good point in our discussion? This is the best subreddit of all time.
edit: typo
But NO if you're okay with government handling certain things then you MIGHT AS WELL make them in charge of EVRYTHING. That's what liberals want, according to my awesome straw man!
> Well, to put it simply we don't need collective wealth and large-scale projects for cars and food, because a sandwich costs $5.
A sandwich costs $5, but how much does a farm cost? How much does a car factory cost? Why don't we need taxes to fund these things? And why does it even matter? You think government spending is more efficient than a free market, so why wouldn't government spending on sandwiches be more efficient? They could ensure that we all eat healthy sandwiches!
A farm that grows lettuce and let's say a couple cows and some wheat? Geez I dunno for sure, but 50 acres would be around 2 or 3 hundred grand. That's what I like in a good sandwich, bread lettuce and beef.
Why is everything all or nothing with you? Does it irk you that society is not a free-for-all situation in all aspects, so the only counter argument to that is total government control of all economics?
clearly, either you are an ancap or you want the government to control everything. those are the only two options.
> A farm that grows lettuce and let's say a couple cows and some wheat? Geez I dunno for sure, but 50 acres would be around 2 or 3 hundred grand. That's what I like in a good sandwich, bread lettuce and beef.
That single farm isn't going to feed all 300 million Americans. Why don't we need taxes to build these farms?
> Why is everything all or nothing with you? Does it irk you that society is not a free-for-all situation in all aspects, so the only counter argument to that is total government control of all economics?
Why don't you just admit that you have no fucking idea why you think some industries "should be" government run and some "should be" privately run? You are just parroting what your masters told you. Think for yourself for once.
Explain how to build and maintain roads or power lines or sewage disposal through private industry alone with any consistency? Are we talking Amish style everyone gets together and builds the roads for fun, or you expect a company to repave the roads and every road is a toll? I just don't get how any of that would work, it would be chaos. Anarchy is inherently chaos, and capitalism thrives in stability. AnCap is an oxymoron.
edit: typo
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>You think government spending is more efficient than a free market, so why wouldn't government spending on sandwiches be more efficient?
I know you're a pathetic child who throws tantrums and has spent the last two days being told how stupid he is by dozens of people but goddamn dude you were just bitching at me for assuming things about your views. Then you do the same thing to this guy? Fucking pathetic you idiot child.
Nobody's advocating that though.
Well why not? You seem to think it's great. What's holding you back?
The fact that I dont advocate or support that.
So you don't know why? Yep, our country is fucked.
Will you quit being so fucking condescending? Is this your first time outside of the AnCap hugbox or what you baby? I don't get how you can be this smug after 48 hours of dozens of people commenting on how stupid you are.
lol omg
move out of it
You seem to be unable to grasp any hint of nuance beyond "all or nothing". This why everyone thinks you're stupid. It's not because you're an ancap, although most people think that it's a foolish ideology. It's because you seem to be completely unable to comprehend people who have other opinions. Arguments like "Why not tax 100%!?" "Why not have minimum wage be infinity per hour!?" are illogical and irrational and are convincing to literally no one.
You seem to be unable to answer simple questions about why you believe what you believe. Why don't you try thinking for yourself? Why do these questions frighten you so much?
I don't think I've seen someone try this hard to sound edgy and astute and fail so hard at it in quite some time.
If you actually think you're hitting the nail on the head, then as I said, you are just completely out of touch with the people you're talking to. No one is "afraid" of your questions because they are nonsensical and no one takes you seriously. Perhaps you have been spending too much time in your ancap echo chamber to remember what normal people think and believe.
Maybe try putting the cookie-cutter talking points down for a sec and think for yourself, eh?
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hahahaha he thinks everyone is scared
>You seem to think it's great.
>I have decided this is what you believe because it is easier to argue against that then your real, more nuanced perspective.
FTFY
> government raising your taxes further still and providing you with "free" meals that it picks out for you?
Yes, basic nutritional needs should absolutely be free.
>Why not housing too?
Yep, I'd take a tax increase if it means that everyone gets at least a bare minimum of housing.
>And cars?
Because the last thing we need is more carbon emissions.
>If it's a good idea for those other things you mentioned, why not everything?
Because food and housing are necessities. Everyone needs them. The same is not true of luxury goods: if I don't want a sofa, it would be stupid for anyone to allocate resources to get me one.
> Yes, basic nutritional needs should absolutely be free.
You better let your comrades in the thread who say they aren't advocating for this know.
> Yep, I'd take a tax increase if it means that everyone gets at least a bare minimum of housing.
You better let your comrades in the thread who say they aren't advocating for this know.
> Because the last thing we need is more carbon emissions.
Oh you think farms and houses can be built without carbon emissions? You think farms and houses can be supplied to 330 million people without cars or other forms of mass transportation?
> Because food and housing are necessities. Everyone needs them. The same is not true of luxury goods: if I don't want a sofa, it would be stupid for anyone to allocate resources to get me one.
Nobody needs roads or public schools. We definitely don't need bombs over Iraq and Afghanistan. But.. I though the government works for the people?
people need roads and schools man, that's ridiculous
to infinity and beyond
Seems like the rational self-interested thing for you to do is to take your money, and skills, to a country, or place, where they pay no taxes. Free markets baby! If you don't like America you can pick up and take your business elsewhere.
Yeah like The Bahamas (what a shithole amirite?). And then you crybabies will whine and call me a tax dodger, just like you do to Burger King and Facebook when they get fed up with US taxes and try to leave.
That's the spirit, drive out everybody that actually produces! That will solve poverty!
Why would you care what we think? Move to the Bahamas, you captain of industry, you.
Life is exactly like an Ayn Rand novel
TIL
lol what is it that you produce
An insufferable Randian smugness. That's definitely his major export.
>That's how old you have to be to still be a liberal.
Oh my god, it's like middle school. I know you are but what am I?
I'm a mechanical engineer for a major automotive manufacturer, drive a 2014 Mercedes Benz E-Class and am expecting a child in February with my wife of 10 years. I've voted Democratic in every election I've been able to. Only children are Anarcho-Capitalists. Remember how you spawned 3 fucking threads about how dumb you are?
2prax4me
It's cool bro, just prax it out and you'll soon realize we should pray in the direction of Wall Street five times a day.
Mecca Street.
Dude you got slapped around that thread like a piñata
/r/SubredditDrama is literally rape.
In this moment, I am anarcho-capitalist, not because of any phony academic education in economics, but because I am enlightened by my own Rothbard-worship.
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Interesting side note.
Australia once had a "White Australia Policy" for this very reason. Immigrants were entering australia and willing to produce labor for less than the unionised predominantly white workforce. Therefore because they were "takin dur jerbs", the unions then lobbied for the white australia policy.