User questions why r/GirlGamers is a thing, when /r/gaming is not gender specific. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
119 ups - 46 downs = 73 votes
128 comments submitted at 18:01:26 on Jan 12, 2014 by david-me
User questions why r/GirlGamers is a thing, when /r/gaming is not gender specific. (np.reddit.com)
SubredditDrama
119 ups - 46 downs = 73 votes
128 comments submitted at 18:01:26 on Jan 12, 2014 by david-me
Isn't /r/gaming like, 90+% made up of guys? I wish I could remember where I saw that.
Reddit is estimated to have a bout 70% male users overall; though of course given that the number of active accounts is not the same as the number of active users, and also given that reported sex need not be the actual sex of the user, accurate numbers are probably impossible to gain.
But the best measures I've seen show around 70%. I'd expect Gamers to be comparable to the site-wide average.
That would be an incredibly high number for a default subreddit. Still, you might be right. I tried looking for a census, but couldn't find it (I don't know if they ever even had one).
I vaguely remember those numbers from a survey but it's way possible I'm remembering it all wrong. I thiiink it was in context of proving that reddit is very male saturated, though.
I'm trying to find it but I hate reddit's search function and it hates me so it might take a miracle.
Given how successful this image usually is whenever it gets reposted there, it wouldn't surprise me.
To be fair, look at the comments. It's pretty much condemning the post.
It's refreshing to see common sense upvoted...
People who comment and people who upvote are two different groups. That is why whenever you see a Justin Beiber post in /r/funny it will have 2000+ upvotes and all the comments will be bitching about it.
I know. I'm just glad either way to see that the comments are in full support of... well, common fucking decency.
Or why despite everyone bitching in the comments about memes in /r/atheism, May May June still happened. Out of curiosity I started looking through the comment history of the people complaining about the rule changes, and quite a few of them had no post history despite having accounts for years.
And yet it still gets reposted and upvoted despite negative comments.
not to mention the thousands of people that seem to keep forgetting that jessica nigri gets payed to wear a skimpy ass cosplays at conventions and not because she is le stupid dirty slut whore who gets off on getting hundreds of pictures taken with greasy hands hovering over her ass 7 times a year
Who cares, /r/gaming is like, 90+% cesspool. It is nice for some mindless brainbleach though. My buddy, who can't stand that sub, recently pointed me to /r/truegaming.
Awesome topics such as "Why do games usually revolve around killing" which is a pretty damned good thing to talk about imo.
As far as I'm concerned, r/girlgamers is probably just as much of a cesspool as r/gaming is. If the content all sucks, who cares what genitals the person posted it has?
What, don't you love tired-ass image macros and the same few tired-ass threads coming up over and over again like a broken record?
RESCUED THIS GEM FROM A YARD SALE. DAE REMEMBER THEIR CHILDHOOD?
I bet you could post that on /r/gaming and get upvotes.
every time i see a garage sale/thrift store/attic post i want to smack someone.
HL1 + HL2 =
HL3!!!1!
stop it
no u
Also, the original poster is /u/FaerieStories. Three e's and one a? HALF LIFE 3 WILL BE RELEASED UNDER EA!
No why do you?
wow so true!
Gender ≠ genitals.
OH GOD NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN.
Most people associate gender and genitals, if you're trans and you don't want surgery, fine, but you gotta deal with the fact that most people aren't expecting that. Getting offended because someone else expects gender and genitals to match unless otherwise stated is being unreasonable.
Thus, while gender does NOT equal genitals, they can indeed be equated and my point stands unedited.
> As far as I'm concerned, r/girlgamers is probably just as much of a cesspool as r/gaming is. If the content all sucks, who cares what genitals the person posted it has?
Because there's a lot of sexism in /r/gaming? Because there's a lot of sexism in gaming communities in general?
A huge amount of content in /r/girlgamers is self-posts about harassment and how to deal with it, which is an issue in the main gaming subs. It's also not a "girls only sub" at all, in fact it has a lot of guys posting there as well, it's just a sub meant to foster discussion about games in an environment where people aren't on the receiving end of discrimination, and where people whom have been are able to find support.
Not that I don't see why you might assume it's probably just a girls-only version of /r/gaming based on the name alone, but as a general rule the sub has a lot of actual content and discussion, if anything it's probably closer to truegaming than the other mains -Well, more in the middle I suppose-, just with stricter rules about discrimination whilst being less strict regarding image content, although meme posts are few and far between.
So my kneejerk reaction is to not take you seriously after the
>Because there's a lot of sexism in /r/gaming[1] ? Because there's a lot of sexism in gaming communities in general?
bit because I don't tend to take SJW seriously, but fair enough; I don't go into /r/GirlGamers, as I do not feel I would be welcomed there. (I feel the same way about /r/gaming, but whatever) Just went by what other people saying that they have similar or sameish content.
Jeez, when did it become SJW to mention that sexism exists?
People get so used to seeing it and being chastised for perceived wrongs by 15 year olds on tumblr that they assume anytime someone mentions sexism that its gonna be opening up a can of worms.
It's not surprising, its definition shifted so fast you just needed to blink to lose it
So because you don't take SJWs seriously, you ignore the fact that a sector of entertainment and most of its fans are overwhelmingly sexist at times? You may not agree with everything said in the SJ community, and that's fine, but it is undeniable the amount of shit women get for being gamers, just because they are women; deemed to be attention whores or not real gamers because apparently their puny female brains can't handle mindlessly shooting artificial threats and they mustn't be real gamers as killing waves of enemies of increasing strength is a man's game .
The studios and production companies making these games must agree with an overwhelming number of purely male protagonists, with female characters barely defined, being not much more than just being a woman. While male characters may have certain traits or abilities or appearances to distinguish them from each other, the female characters are defined by their gender: alongside the "angry one" or the "smart one" they are the "girl one". Failing that they become two dimensional objects that the male character must seek or win and if they do get the honour of being the protagonist they'll be lucky to be working as much more than fan service. But with this talk I'm probably sounding a bit too Sarkeesian for your liking.
The gaming community is not great for women and safe spaces like /r/GirlGamers are needed just as to have their voices heard and be listened to in return, a place were they can post about their gaming habits without being called "fake" or "whores" by most of the community they adore so much.
Honest question, because i find this issue interesting. What would you say are some female video game characters that are.... well, characters, as in defined by something other than the fact that they're female?
While gaming has it massive ammounts of hiccups when it comes to presenting women in gaming, i'd say there are also a lot of good stuff too.
One of the more subtle ones is in Dark Souls. You know how in fantasy video games, girl characters often have armor that accomodate their breasts, or simply cover the breasts and nothing else?
In DS, under the armor, you can't tell if they player character is male or female. I really like that, from both an equality standpoint, and a practical one.
There are definitely good games when it comes to women. There are strong female characters in more games every year whether they are protagonist or not.
A good example would be FemShep as despite the complications with the naming because it refers to the old "male being the norm", the character's actions and scripting is virtually indistinguishable from Shep's, not being made unnecessarily feminine just because the character is a woman. Femininity of course is not bad, just a character should not be defined or changed as such.
The point is gaming is moving forward, just not as fast as it perhaps should be, especially with nostalgia overwhelming a large part of it, resulting in a return of many old, outdated tropes containing the sentiment of the time at which they were formed. It's very much two steps forwards, one step back.
edit: You're against mens rights, which means you are most likely a troll. Damn I really need to peek at post history before I make long posts towards people. I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes of my time on this.
/le facepalm
>So because you don't take SJWs seriously, you ignore the fact that a sector of entertainment and most of its fans are overwhelmingly sexist at times?
No, I ignore the fact that a sector of entertainment and its fans are overwhelmingly sexist at times because every facet of our lives is overwhemlingly sexist at times. Even women.
Acting like gaming is some special bastion or promised land, as if it is some kind of unique place isn't going to make things better or different.
>but it is undeniable the amount of shit women get for being gamers, just because they are women
That's funny, when I hear bullshit arguments like this I go to my friends list and ask girl gamers themselves about how much bullshit they go through. Turns out that yes, people target them, and yes, when people do target them, they utilize their gender against them, but no, they are not targeted any more than any other individual who appears to make a good target.
People who give a reaction tend to be targetted more than people who do not give a reaction, gender or no gender. If you know someone in a server is black and call them a nigger, they will either react, which will cause it to happen again, or they will not react, which will cause the troll to either escalate in their attempt to harass and subsequently get banned as a result, or they will leave and find a new target.
This is not new ground here.
I'm not reading any more of your post, because it's pretty obvious you've bought 100% into the Anita Sarkesian stuff - feel free to tell me how wrong I am, or how sexist I am, or how evil and guilty I should feel, but as far as I am concerned, your opinions don't really mean much to me. Tropes are tools, and if you really believe that tools are inherently evil, I'm not going to waste any more of my time responding to you.
Just because tropes are tools does not make some of them any less damaging.
The Damsel in Distress Trope is damaging precisely because it paints an unfair picture of women.
> The Damsel in Distress Trope is damaging precisely because it paints an unfair picture of women.
Dont stop there - tell me how it is damaging and why it is unfair.
Simply parroting the same points people have already heard wont change minds - but maybe if you go one step farther than Anita, you can change peoples minds. Demonstrate what you mean.
You are very right btw, tropes CAN BE damaging - but they are not damaging in and of themselves. Damsel in Distress is not damaging, but can be used in damaging ways, given a certain context and certain constraints.
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>You're against mens rights
Not men's rights per say, men do face problems because of their gender, I'm against most of the men's rights movement on reddit and elsewhere for their misplaced aggression and often sexist sentiment. But let's not get into that right now.
>every facet of our lives is overwhelmingly sexist at times
But can you not see that gaming is often so much more sexist despite being in or attempting to be in the same league as many others forms of entertainment. While cinema moves forward with great full-fleshed female protagonists, many this year alone (Blue Jasmin, Gravity, Hunger Games) games are left in some 1980s paradigm of bad story writing and hollow female characters. Especially with this nostalgia movement drawing many inspirations from classic games, seeing a resurgence in tropes that are not evil, but lazy and very often espousing and enforcing sexist ideals.
Gaming is not a bastion where it has to be better than society but it could at least be on par. It's not a vacuum. The views expressed in video games do have an affect on the real world, especially when presented to a large audience of often young impressionable boys that will not see these views as just tropes and may think that this is an OK way to view or treat women.
>they are not targeted any more than any other individual who appears to make a good target.
And what makes them a good target? The fact that they are women. For some reason much of the gaming community sees this as something to target.
You can't stop yourself from being a woman or being black or being gay so the abuse these people receive is not their fault and they shouldn't be blamed for further attacks if they wish to stand up for themselves.
Frankly I don't see your point. You admit there is abuse against girl gamers for being girl gamers because apparently being a girl is an attackable offense. Then you do some sly victim blaming thing where you say they shouldn't retaliate less they wish to receive more abuse. The problem is the abuse, the abusers not them and they shouldn't have to stay quiet to avoid it. Are you trying to say that women should just deal with it until or if the abuser gets banned? If every sexist /r/gaming user got banned, it would be a far smaller subreddit.
You then end with "This is not new ground here" and it's certainly not. This has been brought up again and again, and you know why? Because nothing is being done. Women are still being abused for being a women and it's a problem hard wired into gaming itself and it needs to be fixed.
I'm not going to call you evil or wrong, just misguided. Tropes are tools and some are useful and work well for what they're meant to do while others have been sitting in the shed and were allowed to rust as they become more and more outdated. You can try to fix them up, reinforce the handles, oil the workings, but with each use you realise how old they are and that you really should consider going to Home Depot to buy some new ones. I mean they're like $10 and there are thousands of them but sometimes your just to lazy to even bother working with anything new and may as well you these old ones why they're still ~~~relevant~~ working when really, they should have failed years ago.
> So my kneejerk reaction is to not take you seriously after the > bit because I don't tend to take SJW seriously
Is that in response to both sentences or one in particular? I'll concede it was very, very generalized, but I don't think hyperbole negates the central point.
If it helps, just read it as "a lot of girls perceive sexism in the games community" if you don't personally believe it to exist, after all you can argue these things are a matter of perception anyway. The point isn't about the "objective" state of the communities though if such a thing can even be observed, a lot of people do feel there is sexism in the main gaming subs, and that's why they made a sub they can keep what they feel to be sexism out of it. And that is why gender matters in this context, in response to you asking "why does gender matter".
That's all I'm trying to say, I apologize if my original post came across as an attack on you or trying to shove something down your throat.
> after all you can argue these things are a matter of perception anyway. The point isn't about the "objective" state of the communities though if such a thing can even be observed, a lot of people do feel there is sexism in the main gaming subs, and that's why they made a sub they can keep what they feel to be sexism out of it. And that is why gender matters in this context, in response to you asking "why does gender matter".
Actually you are being more fair than most would be, so I appreciate that. As I've already conceded, I've never gone into the sub, as I feel it would be extremely hostile towards me, despite being told that men are welcomed there(I uh... haha I know better. 'welcomed' does not mean "welcomed" in my experience, when it comes to subs like that). I only made the comment in regards to what other people in the linked thread stated.
:)
> (I uh... haha I know better. 'welcomed' does not mean "welcomed" in my experience,
Sure, I understand that completely. I've been through dozens of "welcoming communities" that amount to "x and y minority are great, z are subhuman" when you'd think they of all people would know better but that's just people I guess. You never know unless you try.
On another note I upvoted you since I have no idea what just happened to all the votes shifting, although I may be kicking a hornet's nest saying that.
> On another note I upvoted you since I have no idea what just happened to all the votes shifting, although I may be kicking a hornet's nest saying that.
You are. Take it out, pm me, and I'll remove this comment. The downvotes don't really bother me, I don't come here for votes, I come here to share ideas, both my own and what others offer to me. Some people care, which is fine, validations is a guilty pleasure, but if I wanted validation, there are much better places to get it from than in this sub :p
>Sure, I understand that completely. I've been through dozens of "welcoming communities" that amount to "x and y minority are great, z are subhuman" when you'd think they of all people would know better but that's just people I guess. You never know unless you try.
Ohh yeah. I still will never forget when the moment I realized the perfectly normal Israeli I debated with for almost a year was pretty fucking racist against Palestinians. Very scary for me. International forums where US are a minority is a fun, but strange, place.
Nice overreaction
I unsubbed from /r/gaming the moment one of its mods called a gaming computer a tax machine. Then shit hit the fan a few days later and I found out a week after it happened.
That aside, I can't be heartened by the feeling that their needs to be a "girl gamer" subreddit.
To me, the title "girl gamer" is an attention grabber. It's some girl looking for attention and validation by exploiting a community known to be primarily male and lacking in social female interaction.
Guys don't come out smelling to great from this either. Sure, they are being exploited for their attention, but they did it to themselves. If guys didn't treat girls who game any different, whether it be to put the girl on a pedestal or send her dick picks, the gaming community could grow much more.
A girl who games is just a gamer. Sure, I admit that I may be more interested in talking with her, but that's because I like girls, and one that has a common interest is awesome. However, except for a brief period when I was 16 I haven't hit on them just because they have boobies.
Edit: apparently I've struck a nerve with some people or didn't get my point across. To clarify I'll quote myself from below:
I was saying that the TITLE of "girl gamer" is a bad thing.
If my last point didn't get it across: To me a girl who games is just another gamer. They only become a "girl gamer" when they do stuff like what is pointed out in This video..
90%+ of girls who game are not attention whores. The girls who are attention whores are super visible because (surprise!) men give them attention.
So, yes, it's entirely a problem of men who give attention whores attention. Because demographically, most girls who play games are not attention whores. We actually want to be left the fuck alone.
Most girls I know who play games don't tell anyone about it. Both because we get the "games are for losers" from other people and we get the "you're an attention whore, right?" from a portion of gamers. Even other female gamers are nasty to women they think are being too "attention whore."
It's really a double edged sword, and the reason I don't subscribe to any gaming subs, at all. The constant kvetching about gamer girls, no matter what side it's from, is depressing. I play games because it's supposed to be fun. When it's not fun, I don't want to play.
> 90%+ of girls who game are not attention whores.
I don't know where I said otherwise. I was saying that the TITLE of "girl gamer" is a bad thing.
If my last point didn't get it across: To me a girl who games is just another gamer. They only become a "girl gamer" when they do stuff like what is pointed out in This video.
> To me a girl who games is just another gamer.
Too bad this isn't the experience most women have playing games online. I think most girls/women who play games have had the unfortunate experience of being treated very differently just because they spoke on voice comms and were outed as not being male.
I get that, and that's why I said the guys don't come out smelling well either.
But apparently trying to engage in conversation over the topic rather than bashing one side or the other in this sub is frowned upon as the numerous downvotes I've gotten show.
I'm done. No more popcorn for you guys.
Oh noes, not down votes! Quickly, flee the sub before your karma score receives a further bruising!
> But apparently trying to engage in conversation over the topic rather than bashing one side or the other in this sub is frowned upon as the numerous downvotes I've gotten show.
abloo bloo bloo
> To me, the title "girl gamer" is an attention grabber. It's some girl looking for attention and validation by exploiting a community known to be primarily male and lacking in social female interaction.
This. This.
>A girl who games is just a gamer. Sure, I admit that I may be more interested in talking with her, but that's because I like girls, and one that has a common interest is awesome. However, except for a brief period when I was 16 I haven't hit on them just because they have boobies.
I think your post puts it into words. Maybe its because I'm past the point where OMG A GURL IS ON THE SERVER, but the idea that someone is special just because they have different genitals is something I learned to be bullshit a looooong time ago, ESPECIALLY in the gaming community. I have seen trolly girls, and I have seen bullied exploited boys.
The very idea that it somehow is intrinsicly different because 'girls' or 'sexism' is just stupid, and is in my opinion a crutch they use to feel like a special snowflake. Most gamer "girls" I played with wouldn't associate with a 'girlgamer' group because they don't want any special attention.
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