Should DC hire a woman to direct the Wonder Woman movie? Is Wonder Woman feminist? One user believes he wields the Lasso of Truth, while several others attempt to whip him into submission. (np.reddit.com)
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193 comments submitted at 16:51:23 on Oct 24, 2014 by SQUEEEEEEEEEPS
This sub has the best titles.
It's half the reason I'm subscribed.
/r/titleporn
Wonder women has one of my favorite character creation stories, in that the artist wanted a strong female super hero, but also believed that bondage should be a common thing, creating the demi-god we know and love.
Isn't one of the main themes of bondage that the sub has all the ultimate power (i.e. the ability to say stop)?
Yeah, the creator also created the polygraph test. She's also an example of good sexy really in that the sexy is part of other traits.
...but polygraph test is completely worthless, so I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing.
....does the other person not have that ability?
Well yes, BDSM communities are vehemently pro-consent from both parties but the whole point of the relationship is that the dom has complete control over the sub. The dom can walk away but what exactly would they tell the sub to stop doing? The sub is just that...sub. They aren't doing anything unless the dom already told them to do it in the first place. The sub is the one who can issue the ultimate command to end the play.
At least, that's my understanding of how the power dynamic plays out. Responsible BDSM communities have very strictly defined rules and guidelines.
For anyone interested, two indepth looks at the origin of Wonder Woman.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/11/wonder-womans-kinky-feminist-roots/380788/
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2628-All-The-World-Is-Waiting
I love the Big Picture comic book episodes. I've never read a comic in my life but I'm always fascinated by how weird they are.
Having a woman play Wonder Woman is yet another example of social justice warriors trying to force feminism down our throats. That's NOT misogynist, it's the truth.
Really all women actors are just here because of Affirmative Action. Let's go back to the days when women were played by clean-shaven boys
Ahaha... totally unrelated factoid:
There is this Franco-Belgian comic series where there is not a single women in it. And the only "one" is a transvestite.
That is actually quite interesting why is it like that? Roman influence or is the artist bad at drawing women?
I was just thinking it's some weird European stuff
Belgian comics have a bit of history in such things. Tintin's got that unfortunate "Tintin goes to the Congo" racism....
Not to mention..
That is hilarious, there was some thread recently where everyone was lauding Tintin's writer as this enlightened genius who researched the subjects of his comics thoughly. No one mentioned "Tintin goes Native" though...
Edit: Here it is. It's actually a really interesting read.
Edit2: It is addressed here, I must not have seen it the first time around.
I get a strong Moebius vibe from that for some reason.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HoYay
Kids in the Hall style
>Wonder Woman is not for feminists
I'll have to go alert my Mega-feminist Glamazon friends that they have to turn in their Wonder Woman bodices. A reddit feminist has ruled.
It was fun while it lasted, everyone. Just pack up and go home now.
A feminist who is not for feminists.
Feminists are not meant to consume or internalize anything related to Wonder Woman. We are to meet back at Tumblrina HQ and practice our harpy screams, presumably.
I don't really understand the drama. If they said they were going to hire a female director no matter what, even if they sucked that would be weird. But is having to my knowledge the first female director of a comic book movie that horrible?
Plus I have a strong feeling people who whine about Social Justice Warriors won't go see wonder woman. She is the most literal example of a feminist Social Justice Warrior I can imagine. She is literally a warrior who eviscerates the injust. Is a member of the Justice League, and a feminist.
IIRC, the last Punisher movie had a female director.
and it was great
How have I missed this movie?! This is like Kill Bill awesome.
For perspective, that is the opening scene, and it isn't the most violent scene in the movie. As for how you missed it, it came out in 2008, so it had a lot of competition (Iron Man, The Dark Knight, The Incredible Hulk, Hellboy 2, and a few others)
Also, it was... Not really that great. Imo they fell short of the heights of movies like Crank, which was clearly the vibe they were going for. Worse, I thought it if was gonna be a straight sequel to the Thomas Jane one, so the tone shift was a bit staggering.
The director's interview on How Did This Get Made is really revealing and interesting, though, and definitely gave me a better appreciation than I had after seeing the movie on its own.
If you read the Punisher MAX series, the tone and characters and everything make a lot of sense. The series is a lot different from Punisher's mainstream universe series.
I would disagree with the Crank comparison. Crank was purposely cartoony, and while War Zone was certainly campy and didn't try too hard to be serious, I wouldn't call it cartoony.
This fills the void as I hopefully wait for Boondock Saints 3
The best scene is when he throws the guy onto the spiked fence, and then jumps on his face
Also right before that he blew up a guy doing parkour
Loved that movie.
> She is literally a warrior who eviscerates the injust.
Holy fuck, I didn't realize she tore the guts out of bad guys.
She is literally a warrior who figuratively eviscerates the unjust.
Wonder Woman's actually the most brutal and willing to kill of the regular Justice League heroes.
Well, you can argue about the brutality part over Batman, but that's just because Batman's written to be the most X of all time, where X is anything you can spin to be a desirable trait.
Let's be fair, though. I don't think she makes a habit of killing. In the example you posted, Maxwell Lord (the victim) had telepathic control over Superman. Perhaps there are other ways of solving the problem, but letting an evil man (whom earlier had killing a beloved fellow super-hero) have full control over Superman, one of the (if not the) most powerful being on Earth, is a situation would want to resolve sooner rather than later.
>I don't think she makes a habit of killing.
In most incarnations of the Justice League, that's something she has to be kind of strong-armed into by the other League members.
Certainly not most, not even really many. This is a pretty recent trend in her character. More importantly, the repercussions of the picture you posted were so significant that they spawned a year-long company-wide event before the time when there was always an event going. It was not in any way matter of course for her.
Yeah the whole "Killing is wrong" thing- not really a Themysciran trait. Diana is actually one of the least violent and most merciful members of her people.
I will never, ever get over how Superman's just holding his neck uncomfortably there at the end.
It's so odd when people say "I just want the best person for the job" and then get indignant when you cast the net to search for somebody who isn't their idea of a default person (usually white male).
Well, they assume the best person for the job is a white male. That's what terrible people do and it's all over that thread, in-between the lines.
And the implication that somehow, somewhere, a "Normal Guy" like themselves might not have the advantage and will be left out.
Close. The real answer is that their definition of "person" just doesn't include brown people or women.
Normally I'd agree, especially because Hollywood constantly shuts out female screenwriters and directors, but are there many female action directors? The comic book movies lately have all been going with major directors- the only famous women directors I can think of are Lana Watchosky, Katheryn Bigelow, and Sofia Coppola and this doesn't fit any of their aesthetics.
On the other hand, if they find some unknown, and she gets to break into an industry where there normally aren't women, that would be fantastic and very much in the spirit of Wonder Woman.
I would argue bigelow is very much in WB/DC's "realistic gritty" wheelhouse.
That would actually be cool now that I think of it. Especially since they've been making it sound like there's some kind of war or infighting going on in the new Justice League movies.
I kind of get it. When you have unjust systems that don't reward and hire female directors, writers, and professionals, you have women in an industry that are objectively less "qualified" than men in the same industry. They have shorter CVs, less professional experience, and less contacts. Which is why a female director didn't win an Oscar until 2009, and why a woman hasn't won one since (and why only four have been nominated... ever).
By the time you get to the present day, you don't have to be sexist any more. You can just not hire female directors because it's true, they're actually less qualified. They're less qualified for extremely fucked up reasons, of course, but that doesn't have to matter to you.
My personal opinion is that the history of exclusion should be taken into account when someone looks at someone's CV. Bigelow should, perhaps, be thought of as even better than men who have the same awards she does, because they didn't have to work quite as hard and overcome so much to do it.
It's a shitty system for everyone, true. It means that you might be over-estimating the qualifications of a female director, and underestimating the qualifications for a male director. But if we do it long enough, eventually nobody will have to take into account that history of exclusion anymore, and the length of someone's CV will be a genuine measure of their talent and qualifications.
If we don't take pretty progressive steps to correct for it, right now, by hiring female directors even over male directors with longer CVs, the problem will continue into perpetuity.
So why I see why some people have a point, they're also wrong in that the length a woman's CV is often not representative of her talent in exclusionary fields, and disregarding that fact only compounds that problem and allows talented men and women to flail about on an unequal playing field where neither can adequately judge their own talents.
No people shouldn't just handwave and declare that woman directors are better than male directors with better qualifications because of oppression, that's retarded and disingenuous. If two directors have won the same awards and have similar CVs they should be considered equal regardless of gender. There shouldn't be special discrimination for women, people should be evaluated on their merits regardless of race or gender. But to a lot of people today that's "bigoted" which is dumb and intellectually dishonest.
> by hiring female directors even over male directors with longer CVs
For some strange reason, I don't think that hegemonic, privileged, White males will be happy with that decision. Brogressive bastards that they are.
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What are you doing?
Browsing reddit, you?
[snorts]
If I remember correctly we recently had the first superhero genre screenplay made into a movie by Marvel: Guardians of the Galaxy. Before that all screenplays were done by males.
She wrote the first draft, but James Gunn scrapped pretty much everything she wrote and made his own movie. The only reason her name was on the final screenplay was because of Writer's Guild rules.
Is there any write-up or interview anywhere that talks about what he wrote over? The only compliant I had with that movie was that some of the writing was extremely uneven, particularly in the dynamics between Gamora and Nebula. And some of the pacing was strange, like in parts of the prison scene, and later on the asteroid.
Wonder if he fixed stuff that would have been more uneven, or if the unevenness was the result of all the hodgepodge of writing fixes.
I think it's just a bit tacky, like they're just doing it as a publicity stunt rather than trying to help women in the industry.
If Ann Nocenti is still hired, you can't say DC isn't bending over backwards to help women in the industry.
The $4 I spent on Joker's Daughter #1 would have been much better spent doused in gasoline and set on fire.
Most well-informed feminists don't give a shit, because the reality is that it puts women in a production, which is more than you can say for the status quo.
That's possible. And I hope that isn't the case.
I have a really hard time believing that there's not a single female director out there equally or more qualified to direct a Wonder Woman movie than any other man. Assuming a dude would be the best is assuming an awful lot.
Like a few people in that thread said, just have Lexi Alexander direct it and make it just as batshit crazy as Punisher: War Zone.
I just want to know if its invisible jet or flight.
She has both in the Justice League cartoons, so that is a possibility.
You know what would be hilarious, they add that time Diana worked at McDonalds.
I remember she worked at a Taco Bell ripoff at one point, but I don't remember McDonalds. Either way, given the amount of sponsorship in Man of Steel I wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, that's it, I just remember it was fast food.
It definitely won't be an invisible jet.
It's an invisible jet that's small and flying it involves putting your hands above your head and lying down.
There better or RIOTS IN THE STREETS!
You liked Punisher: War Zone?
It lacked any of the storyline that made Punisher who he is. I mean the reason he's an interesting character is similar to why Batman is interesting. Family dies, betrayed by those he trusts, giving up on his humanity so he can save them etc... etc... None of that was conveyed in that movie.
That said, I will agree the action scenes themselves were directed well, so I wouldn't put the failure of that movie on Lexi Alexander. But they really needed to get better writers.
I liked that they set out to make a violent, over-the-top action movie, and they fully committed to it.
Punisher: War Zone is right up there with Dredd in the list of amazing action movies based on comics. Love both of them so much. War Zone perfectly fit the tone of Punisher's MAX series.
I might be the weird person in the room who didn't like Punisher or Dredd. Wonder Woman is really more vintage than either of them. I'd like to see her get the sort of treatment that vintage heroes get, rather than the ones popular during that '80s and '90s wave of super violent anti-hero stuff.
Of course it's very wishful thinking that it's going to turn out anything like the comicbook movies I've really liked (Avengers, the X-men reboots, Guardians, the first Ironman, Keaton's Batman, etc) and not like the stinkers.
Oh, Wonder Woman shouldn't be anything like Punisher or Dredd. I'd agree with that completely. Nor should most mainstream comic movies, really.
Although I would point out that Judge Dredd and The Punisher were both created in the 1970s, before that awful 90s gritty boom. Still long after Wonder Woman.
True, I mean it did everything they claimed it would. I guess I've always been a fan of Punisher comics and want someone to do justice to it the way they do Batman.
He's not really about over the top violence, even though the skull on his shirt would make you think otherwise, he's more about being weak and using what little he knows how to in a world of super villains. I just wish they would make a god damn movie about that.
The Punisher MAX series was absolutely about over the top violence, and was a clear influence on War Zone.
> I just wish they would make a god damn movie about that.
At this point I've stopped hoping for a movie and started hoping for him appearing in Marvel's Netflix series.
That... that would be awesome.
*Edit: I didn't know this was going to be a thing. Oh god I'm so excited. I love Netflix!
You should listen to the How Did This Get Made episode about War Zone- Lexi Alexander actually came on to talk about the movie and it is readily apparent that she intended to make a much better movie than the producers let her make.
You know, I do not doubt that. It is clear some one decided that it has to be pure gore with no story. Which again is sad because the punisher is a surprisingly complex character.
So its like how Constantine would have been a decent movie if it wasn't about Constantine.
What was wrong with Constantine? I remember it wasn't great...
Its that he's not Constantine, like Constantine is suppose to be kinda a dick that is literally just trying not to be kill or sent to hell.
The piece of gum at the end killed it for me.
John lighting his first cigarette after getting a new body is one of my favorite moments in comics, it so perfectly expresses his character's shoulder-shrugging, nihilistic embrace of the horror around him. Rather than live in terror of the uncertain fate of his soul, he flips the bird to the whole situation and scrapes a little happiness out of it.
It probably seems like a weird thing to get hung up on to people who aren't Hellblazer fans. Heroes should improve themselves over the course of their stories, and John does in some ways, but not that one.
> Rather than live in terror of the uncertain fate of his soul, he flips the bird to the whole situation and scrapes a little happiness out of it.
I mean, he literally flipped off Satan when he started to rise into Heaven.
According to the director, that was God moving his hand, which I think makes it at least twenty times more fantastic. Of course, that takes that moment away from Constantine, but if you pretend the characters are named differently, the movie in general is just great.
Honestly, I was pretty indifferent about the movie until the exchange where they're talking about Constantine's youth:
>Her: So, you tried to kill yourself.
>Constantine: ...I didn't try anything.
>Visuals show John dying in the back of an ambulance, world explodes into Hellscape
OHHH- comics. I never really got into comic books. I went into it thinking it was gonna be about Constantine the Great, the Emperor or Rome. I decided about a minute in to let go of all my presuppositions.
Goddamn I never realized how much that has actually been bugging me... thanks!
Constantine in the comics is English. It's a big part of his character. Keanu could have at least done a bad accent.
Rachel Weisz is kinda unbearable in everything, though, and I blame her for the worst bits.
Kathryn Bigelow
I feel like a Wonder Woman movie would be a huge step down for her, though.
Kenneth Branagh directed Iron Man 2 so I don't think people necessarily see it as a step down as much as they would have like 15 years ago.
Pretty sure you mean Thor.
Sorry I thought he just did Iron Man 2 I think he actually did both.
Pretty sure Favreau directed the first two and the kiss kiss bang bang guy did the third one.
Ok, imdb says Branagh directed the after credits scene. I'll call it a tie.
Ah that makes sense the after credits scene would have been a Thor preview
I don't want to come off as boastful but I worked on Thor (in a vfx capacity) and homeboy came in to give us a pep-talk towards the end of the project, which was really incredibly cool of him. Anyway, that's why I knew. Can't wait for A2!
Oh god that's so cool I always had a man crush on him after watching his Hamlet.
Matters on how much DC/Warner will pay her to do it. It may be a step up into a new G650ER jet.
Maybe. But its not like she has a lot of other offers coming her way. We know she can do action well enough.
If they are looking for a good female director, shes about the only one that comes to mind.
Lexi Alexander destroyed The Punisher. And we won't even talk about the girl that did the first movie with the gay twinkling vampires we shall not name :p
Unfortunately, not a lot of female directors in the industry that know action.
It would be a step up for Michelle McLaren, though. That would be a solid pick.
Yep... That's pretty much it... :-(
I have a really hard time believing that there's not a single male director out there equally or more qualified to direct a Wonder Woman movie than any other woman. Assuming a chick would be the best is assuming an awful lot.
Let's take as granted that men are a lot more likely to be involved on the direction side (women are 30% of directors), and therefore it very well may be that there is a male director with a longer CV than any other female director.
The problem is that you're talking about "qualified" and not "the best person for the job". Discussing whether or not a woman would be "qualified" is meaningless, because the qualification is the baseline for being shortlisted. After that point, there's a combination of what unique feature they bring to the table, what value they add to the project, and other intangibles.
Stating that they're seeking a woman is an indication that they've decided a woman director is part of the intangible set they're looking for. They want to draw women into the theaters and part of that is going to be making a commitment to including the perspective of women from the director's seat.
You don't see why a woman would be more qualified to direct the first super hero movie about the first major female super hero. Really.
Ellen Ripley was basically one of (if not the) first female action heroine. In both of her films (because the Alien sequels don't exist) she was directed by a man. Ridley Scott and James Cameron, respectively.
Ellen Ripley is constantly regarded as one of the greatest female characters in film. So this whole, "A woman is more qualified to direct women than a man can be" is not empirically true.
With that being said, I totally want a female director as WW because it makes a statement.
>Ellen Ripley is constantly regarded as one of the greatest female characters in film. So this whole, "A woman is more qualified to direct women than a man can be" is not empirically true.
One would argue that as the role was originally written for a man, the reason it works so well as the first female action heroine is it was essentially a male character. That resonated at the time. No one had really seen a female character act that way.
It's the same type of feeling that Night of the Living Dead had with its casting of a black male as a lead (which was because he was the best actor in their group of friends); it was a white role, but casting a black man completely changed it's interpretation and impact.
But at the same time, we know Wonder Woman isn't the same case. Her femininity and gender factor into the role differently than Ripley's did in Alien. A male director can do it justice, but a female director changes the game in a different way.
Yes, but that role changes quite a bit in Aliens. Her role in Aliens obviously was written specifically for her. Aliens showed quite a bit of her nurturing side in her relationship with Newt. And instead of using that as weakness ( which so many movies are way too quick to do ) that actually made her even stronger and more interesting of a character than most of her male colleagues.
But I'm not even disagreeing with you. I just like talking about Ellen Ripley. :) Totally, Wonder Woman should be directed by a woman. I'm just making a case that we should agree that it's better that way. What I don't agree with is saying that male directors or writers are incapable of making fully realized and interesting women characters in comparison to women.
>With that being said, I totally want a female director as WW because it makes a statement.
That's basically why I do.
I don't actually believe that all men can't write women. I think a hell of a lot of directors, even female ones, suck at it. Also, writers suck at writing good women.
Why I think Wonder Woman is a special case it that her character is literally a woman in a male-power fantasy genre, subverting the assumed male physical superiority with her superpowers. Her character, it's origins, and the background behind it is pretty explicitly feminist. I think that most people, period, may not be able to bring the nuance I want to see when it comes to a woman quite literally breaking the glass ceiling, both in-universe and in the real world (how meta) by being the first female superhero, by being the token female in a man's world and being constantly judged for her gender.
It's a fuckton of baggage for a writer and a director to take on, and it would go very badly very quickly without the right nuance. I think the political implications alone of the first female superhero movie not being written or directed by a woman (I'd be happy with either, or both at the same time!) would be pretty bad.
That said, there's plenty of men who've written some fabulous female characters, and I don't mean to imply they can't. Like all the women in Frank Baum's Wizard of Oz series. I mean, that shit was written at the turn of the 20th century, and it was explicitly feminist. I've also admired Whedon's work, and Truman Capote writes some fantastic women -- I suspect that Holly is supposed to be his author avatar.
Mostly, if it was the case that we have a plethora of female superhero movies, even if it was less than male super hero movies, I don't think I'd care who writes and directs them. But when it comes to the first one? I think I do. I think people should. Because it says something about the media, and about comic books and action movies, if we can't manage to make a single super hero movie with a female protagonist for how many decades without having her be directed and written by dudes.
WTF is a "male power fantasy genre" why this overt politicization of something intended for kids. It's fucking superhero comic books that kids enjoy for their artistic style, exciting stories, and simple writing. People like you are trying to insert gender politics where there is none. It's a superhero movie with wonder woman, a popular superhero. There is no reason to make it about anything more than that or make it about oppression or feminism, why not let the best possible movie be made and let people enjoy it without making it about these social politics that frankly most people (especially people not on internet message boards) don't care about. at all.
This is like saying that Hurt Locker would have been better if they had a male direct it rather than Kathryn Bigelow. Would you agree?
>Implying the only soldiers are male.
Stating that the movie was based on male soldiers
I'm not against a woman directing Wonder Woman, or any other comic book movie for that matter. That said, doesn't the assumption that a woman would be MORE qualified seem to buy into some gendered character/director link that could be just as much used to keep women out of directing male superhero films...?
(not that they've managed to break that ceiling yet anyway, but why heap even more hurdles in there)
Not really. Not having a woman direct a movie about a female superhero would imply that women suck so super hard at comic book stuff that they can't even direct stories about women, let alone men.
If we had a plethora of female comic book movies, I wouldn't really give two shits about who directs it. But for the first movie after dozens of movies about men? Yeah, I think it's kind of important to have a woman do it, to avoid precisely that implication.
I don't really see how that implication follows without some assumption about women being better at directing stories about women and men being better at telling stories about men.
If there's an argument for a female director of Wonder Woman, in my mind it's simply the appropriateness of having the first woman directing a major comic book film being at the helm of the first major female comic book hero. It doesn't have to sink further than that into a question of qualifications that will seem hypocritical when a woman is being evaluated to direct a Batman movie. Why not just agree that men and women are equally qualified for the job and that the symbolism is enough to justify putting a woman at the helm?
I guess its just shitty to believe that the best candidate should be picked regardless of gender. Just like if there is a male comic book movie shouldn't automatically pick a male director, it should have the best. But fuck giving people jobs based on merit alone.
I really doubt that the difference between the best woman for the job and the best man for the job is so great that the minuscule quality difference in the movie (assuming the dude director is better, which is assuming a lot) is worth the political fallout.
do you realize that you say really problematic shit all the time?
> assuming the dude director is better, which is assuming a lot
just reimagine your comment with genders reversed
> assuming the chick director is better, which is assuming a lot
The gender of the director shouldn't take precedence over merit. There are great directors at making great movies who are male, female, white, black etc... there is no reason to overly politicize a comic book movie. People have been directing comic book movies for years without them being politicized and honestly some of them have been steaming piles of crap (Captain America) so it would be ideal if the director who was going to make the best possible movie were on this because it would be really disappointing for the first comic book movie featuring a woman to be a steaming pile of shit because they just had to have a woman director. If a woman director is gonna make the best movie than I'm all for that, but a woman director shouldn't be picked over a better male director just because some people feel like a woman needs to direct it. And no picking a male director doesn't imply females can't direct movies that's extrapolating a point that isn't there.
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>it
ಠ_ಠ
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Yes, I hate men because I assume a woman would perhaps have more insight into what it means to be a woman in a male-dominated field, and what an explicitly feminist superhero means to other women, and what her character means.
Next you're going to tell me that I'm a misogynist because I think men have better insight into what it feels like to be kicked in the nuts.
Also, "it?" The only one hateful here, is you bub. I genuinely hope you've just had a bad day, and that you're not usually this full of bad feelings. Have a nice weekend, and do something enjoyable.
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Why? A man created the first major female super hero. I think it's cool that Warner Bros. wants to get a woman to direct it, but obviously men can create successful stories about Wonder Woman. That said, regardless of who directs it, I have little faith in Warner Brothers and DC to make a good comic book movie that isn't titled Batman.
>You don't see why a woman would be more qualified to direct the first super hero movie about the first major female super hero.
not really, no.
I'm not saying it has to be a man, or a woman can't direct a good superhero movie, but why does it have to be a woman?
The director should be chosen based on how good they are at their job, and if they can direct a good superhero movie. Choosing a certain director because of their gender and nothing else is an awful idea, and very sexist.
To avoid the entirely obvious and predictable fallout that would occur after following up dozens and dozens of male superhero movies directed by men with the first female superhero movie, also directed by a man.
why should there be fallout? If people are going to get upset over that let them get upset over that, you shouldn't pick a less qualified director just to pander to a vocal minority. Most people won't care what gender the director is, they'll care about how good the movie is.
And what's wrong with that? Why does it matter if it's directed by a man or woman, as long as it turns out good? The director needs to be competent; what they got going on between their legs shouldn't have anything to do with them getting (or not getting) the job.
Though I suppose it doesn't matter who they hire, it's going to catch shit either way. Feminists and SJWS will lose their minds if they get a man, and neckbeards/rabid fanboys will have a meltdown if it's a woman.
This is why I am happy J.K. Rowling is a 12 year old boy wizard irl. Otherwise the Harry Potter books would have suuuuuuuucked.
Would a basketball playing dog director be more qualified to direct a movie about a basketball playing dog?
Well, the movies made by people were terrible, so...
Are you er... comparing women to what?
/s
Well there's no rule that a basketball playing dog can't direct a movie...
> You don't see why a woman would be more qualified to direct the first super hero movie about the first major female super hero. Really.
I honestly don't.. Your genitals don't really determine how qualified you are to direct something like a super hero movie. Not saying that a woman shouldn't direct it, that'd be pretty cool, just don't think being a woman makes you more qualified.
Your genitals don't determine shit. But I'm sure a female director who's super into comic books, particularly Wonder Woman, would have insight into what it means to be a woman in a male-dominated field, in what's pretty much a male-power fantasy, that a man might not have.
I guess Wonder Woman is more a product of fandom than her own history. She always struck me as embarrassingly un-feminist friendly. She'd have to fight with her eyes closed because the bad guys put tape over her eyes and she didn't want to remove it and risk hurting her eyelashes. She was constantly getting tied up by the bad guys (usually with her own lasso) so that the creepy creator could get his rocks off to more bondage imagery.
All in all, she seemed like the last character any feminist would want to claim ownership over. I guess she just gets a lot of clout for being the first female superhero, even if she was a pretty shitty one.
I think a lot of peoples' perception of the Wonder Woman character is less golden-age serials and more Lynda Carter 1970s' TV show. The show was way more girl power than the comics.
I'm looking for a clip on youtube and I can't find it, but I distinctly remember a monologue in the TV show where she's beaten the bad guys and says something to the effect that if women ruled the world it would be less violent or something.
Even then, I feel like that character is embarrassingly out of touch with modern feminism. She was one of those women-first-and-only types that preached something closer to female supremacy than fair and equal treatment. Like she was early Malcolm X or something.
I guess we're never going to get a Barbara Gordon movie, though. Or the female Hawkeye.
An Oracle movie would be 110% amazing, I would watch the shit out of that. Like Rear Window, where you're trapped in the room with the character trying to do something about the action going on off-camera. Oh man.
I know it's probably just because I'm a huge Batman fan, but she's always been one of my favorite female superheros. Especially that arc she had in No Man's Land.
Fuck, Oracle's not even canon, anymore. The New 52 reboot healed her spine.
Yeah I remember people being upset about that.
If they want to make a New 52 version of The Killing Joke to make her Oracle again, that would be OK by me.
I mean, if you scratch the concept at all, it falls apart.
She's from an island of peaceful warriors, coming to show how to live in peace and tolerance between men and women, but if a man ever came to their island, they'll straight-up murder him. So, that's sensible at all.
But that's just nitpicking (about the entire culture that produced her, granted, but big nits are just nits). The real confusion comes from this:
Comic book superheroes are about creating a fantasy for you to relate to. Superman is an amazing alien from Krypton...who grew up in a town so generically-American-small-town that it's literally called Smallville. So, when they step up to create a fantasy for women to relate to, it's...a princess (ugh) from a magical fantasy land that has no relation at all to the way things work in reality, who doesn't understand the world around her, and who will never fit in. She's not even relateable in the sense that she was born the same way you were: no, in most incarnations, she is an animated doll.
That's what girls are supposed to relate to? Being a foreigner who doesn't belong? Who wasn't even born? You set about creating something for women to relate to by divorcing it from anything but their breasts?
The whole thing's fucked up, and Babs is vastly superior as a role model in every way.
Babs as in Barbara Gordon? Hell yeah. There's a movie I'd kill to see.
Oh, yeah. As Batgirl or as Oracle. Or both.
The terrifying prospect of a superhero movie that does not indulge the male gaze?
QUICK ROBIN, TO THE FANMOBILE.
Implying a female director would be above that. This is a big budget Hollywood film you know.
Mary Harron gave you Christian Bale's naked ass, tho.
There is no possible way that a WW movie will not have some amount of sexy fanservice, no matter who directs it. The studio will insist that that happens.
I really, really hope the movie does well though. The condescending comic book nerd pontificating if it doesn't will just be too much to handle.
>The condescending comic book nerd pontificating if it doesn't will just be too much to handle.
Do you think comic book nerds wouldn't want it to do well?
I guess I mean the specific type of comic book nerd that actually cares about the gender of the person directing the movie. I feel the same way about this as I did about the racists who were mad that Idris Elba got cast as Heimdall in the Thor movies. I don't care about Thor, I never read those comics, but damn if I wasn't rooting for the movies to hit it out of the park just to stick it to those assholes.
>I guess I mean the specific type of comic book nerd that actually cares about the gender of the person directing the movie.
Seems like SRDers & DC care more about that than the comic book nerds. They just want it to be a good directer regardless of gender, instead of the other side who want it to be a woman.
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. The studio can want it to be a woman as a symbolic gesture, and they're obviously not going to hire a shitty director just because she's got a vagina.
But they might hire a slightly worse director than the best available just because the person is a woman though. It's a better symbolic gesture to make a good movie about a female superhero than to hire someone because of their genitals.
Anyway, the end goal of feminism is to treat everyone equally isn't it? So why don't we just do that?
This whole discussion is starting to sound like all the Chess tournament ones.
Sounds to me people are mad that they are apparently specifically looking for a woman, which is stupid. They should just have someone direct it who will represent Wonder Woman the best.
It seems like a symbolic gesture. The character is something of a feminist icon, so in that context it would be cool thing to do.
Besides, it's their movie property; they can hire whoever they want. They're obviously not going to flush hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet on a bad director just to have a token woman.
I just think it reinforces a bunch of weird fucking twisted up shit.
Men and women are the same until the differences are beneficial to someone and all of a sudden they're not the same until that's over then they're back to being the same.
The only reason I gave a shit about Elba is that Sif is supposed to be his sister, dammit. Also, Kat Dennings and Natalie Portman totally fulfilled my quota for sexy white brunette women, three of them is a bit much.
Wonder Woman was always about some sort of illicit kink anyways. It wouldn't be Wonder Woman without it. If they stuck her in baggy fatigues and no makeup, I'd be disappointed. Maybe that would work for a gritty reboot, but the first movie?
Nope, I want boots and star-spangled panties.
> Wonder Woman was always about some sort of illicit kink anyways.
what? she is a kids comic book character. She is about as sexualized as superman in his tight suit and bulging muscles. You're reading way too far into something created for children. Comic book heroes like wonder woman and superman were certainly modeled after ideal "heroic" body types. But sexualizing something for kids is ridiculous.
This would be truer if marvel hadn't crammed as much shirtless hemsworth and Evans as they could.
The movie will be rubbish either way.
Put whoever you put, that movie is going to either suck or suck and bomb.
Let's not be too negative. It could bomb without sucking.
It could also suck and do well at the box office. Like Transformers
I feel like there's a possibility we're missing here but I juuuust caaaan't quiiiite plaaaace it...
On the bright side, there's probably 0% chance it will involve giant robot balls.
No one likes a sour puss.
five sequels and eleven oscars and you will deal
let's be all thankful that it's not snyder
Eh. That whole "I'm inspiring for peace, I guess, but really I'm gonna wreck shit and scare people for no reason" fits Wonder Woman a lot better than it fits Superman.
Hell, with barely any rewriting, you could turn the first half of Man of Steel into Diana trying to travel through and understand Man's World before revealing herself. Whole thing's a serviceable Wonder Woman script.
Huh...
I've lost interest in superhero movies but might actually pay to see it if Kathryn Bigelow directed it.
I'm afraid if Bigelow directed Wonder Woman, the main antagonist would end up being Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and the Islamic State, due to her recent track record.
Only if Mark Boal writes it. He wrote Zero Dark Thirty and The Hurt Locker.
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Y'all mothafuckas at WB better give that shit to Michelle MacLaren
Personally I don't really care about Wonder Woman as a character, she's uninteresting to me. But I do hope that the film does well so that the studios are more willing to maybe make a Zatanna or Black Canary film.